RE: 2020 Land Rover Defender | The short review
Discussion
Few have doubted the off-road capability of new Defender. (outside of the issue of reliability, of course)
But does new Defender deliver on sense of occasion? It seems a lot more like a sealed box, compared to its predecessors. And compared to other vehicles that endeavour to go anywhere.
This is why voices on PH and elsewhere have referred to new Defender as a Discovery with Defender accents.
If we begin with the end -- the reveal of the much-anticipated new Defender -- we saw people throughout the world saying, in so many words, "I feel like the new Defender is missing something. It seems like a Discovery with Defender accents."
This was chiefly a response to two things:
. . . the looks and
. . . the experiences on offer.
The former was mentioned again when Grenadier was unveiled: There were words to the effect of, "See, this Grenadier has managed to make a contemporary expression of the old Defender. The new Defender should have looked something like this."
Both the looks and the experiences on offer were mentioned when Bronco was unveiled. People on PH adored the familial look of the new Bronco. And they understood almost immediately how its removable roof and doors promised the sort of experiences that can't be had in a sealed box of a car.
unsprung said:
The former was mentioned again when Grenadier was unveiled: There were words to the effect of, "See, this Grenadier has managed to make a contemporary expression of the old Defender. The new Defender should have looked something like this."
Is that the Genadire that isn't yet on sale, for which there are no fixed spec or price and which looks like a poorly photocopied classic Defender, complete with most of its gizzards hanging down underneath in the breeze? that Grenadire??? :-)Max_Torque said:
Is that the Genadire that isn't yet on sale, for which there are no fixed spec or price and which looks like a poorly photocopied classic Defender, complete with most of its gizzards hanging down underneath in the breeze? that Grenadire??? :-)
Go on. My argument provided examples from two vehicles. You've only done the one.unsprung said:
Max_Torque said:
Is that the Genadire that isn't yet on sale, for which there are no fixed spec or price and which looks like a poorly photocopied classic Defender, complete with most of its gizzards hanging down underneath in the breeze? that Grenadire??? :-)
Go on. My argument provided examples from two vehicles. You've only done the one.braddo said:
Eh? Are you asking about the Bronco? The one that isn’t coming (and won’t ever) to the UK or Europe?
Well, we do have on PH a person who states quite earnestly -- and I believe him -- that his insider knowledge says otherwise, ie: Bronco will in due course become a RoW vehicle.There is still the matter that the US market is essential to a future JLR, and our discussion of Defender can't really be limited to RoW.
Mikebentley said:
Was the old Defender a big seller in North America? I thought it was a rare sight.
Defender was mostly absent from the US. It was offered both on consecutive years and intermittently. And nobody is surprised that it sold in small numbers (see CarSalesBase).In those days, to Americans who knew of Defender, the vehicle appeared to be something of an afterthought. As with a good number of UK and Continental brands before it, Land Rover seemed not to have thought out the issues of large geography, parts inventory, a sort of everlasting scrum of competitive brands, and a rising tide of metrics: ratings on emissions, on safety, and on customer satisfaction.
Those old sales numbers are interesting, but they are of limited insight to our globalised world, today. The fact remains: Bronco has had a visible impact on Britons, both here on PH and elsewhere online.
In Australia, the punters have published at least two petitions on change (dot) org -- demanding that Bronco be sold Down Under. As in the UK, reader comments beneath Australian news articles are brimming with shouts of "bring it here".
unsprung said:
If we begin with the end -- the reveal of the much-anticipated new Defender -- we saw people throughout the world saying, in so many words, "I feel like the new Defender is missing something. It seems like a Discovery with Defender accents."
This was chiefly a response to two things:
. . . the looks and
. . . the experiences on offer.
The former was mentioned again when Grenadier was unveiled: There were words to the effect of, "See, this Grenadier has managed to make a contemporary expression of the old Defender. The new Defender should have looked something like this."
Both the looks and the experiences on offer were mentioned when Bronco was unveiled. People on PH adored the familial look of the new Bronco. And they understood almost immediately how its removable roof and doors promised the sort of experiences that can't be had in a sealed box of a car.
The Bronco's removable doors and roof are literally the old defenders Hose down interior and live axles from this forum This was chiefly a response to two things:
. . . the looks and
. . . the experiences on offer.
The former was mentioned again when Grenadier was unveiled: There were words to the effect of, "See, this Grenadier has managed to make a contemporary expression of the old Defender. The new Defender should have looked something like this."
Both the looks and the experiences on offer were mentioned when Bronco was unveiled. People on PH adored the familial look of the new Bronco. And they understood almost immediately how its removable roof and doors promised the sort of experiences that can't be had in a sealed box of a car.
. Trinkets for fools. You can't even buy that Bronco in Europe. If you don't want to be dishonest in your comparison then you should compare with the Bronco Sport, the one that's actually a serious proposition.Edited by RumbleOfThunder on Monday 19th October 21:31
unsprung said:
In Australia, the punters have published at least two petitions on change (dot) org -- demanding that Bronco be sold Down Under. As in the UK, reader comments beneath Australian news articles are brimming with shouts of "bring it here".
Around 160 signatories across the 2 petitions. Gathered over a 3 month period.Is that supposed to help your argument that the new defender should be more like the Bronco?
We are up to 12 pages of arguing over the Defender now. Has anyone actually gone for a look and a drive to make up there mind? If so what did you think?
I have seen quite a few around my neck of the woods and I think they look great. Will be going for a nosey when I’m next in getting my car serviced.
I have seen quite a few around my neck of the woods and I think they look great. Will be going for a nosey when I’m next in getting my car serviced.
RumbleOfThunder said:
The Bronco's removable doors and roof are literally the old defenders Hose down interior and live axles from this forum . Trinkets for fools.
Sad. Your words have a rather Chipping Norton flavour.. Trinkets for fools. You wouldn't disparage a coupe for having a convertible sibling. And nor should we look down on Bronco and Wrangler for offering the off-road equivalent.
Indeed, in its domestic market, Wrangler is the number-one choice for Cayman and Boxster owners who trade in their cars. Sounds ironic, but isn't. Because both the Porsche cars and the Jeep are about sense of occasion.
braddo said:
Around 160 signatories across the 2 petitions. Gathered over a 3 month period.
Is that supposed to help your argument that the new defender should be more like the Bronco?
It's a bit pathetic, isn't it. But it shows intent, and it's matched by heaps of like-minded comments after almost every Bronco article published in Oz.Is that supposed to help your argument that the new defender should be more like the Bronco?
Are you really going to say that RoW should stick to a sealed box when going off road? That sense of occasion must not involve an embrace of the elements?
RumbleOfThunder said:
You can't even buy that Bronco in Europe.
Going in circles now. Kindly see comment earlier about what we know from a PHer who has inside information.Regardless of current product availability:
We are talking here about new Defender and what Britons and many others think about it. There is a credible argument that new Defender is less Defender-like and more a Discovery with Defender accents.
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