RE: 2020 Land Rover Defender | The short review

RE: 2020 Land Rover Defender | The short review

Author
Discussion

unsprung

5,034 posts

84 months

Monday 19th October
quotequote all

RumbleOfThunder said:
You can't even buy that Bronco in Europe.
Going in circles now. Kindly see comment earlier about what we know from a PHer who has inside information.

Regardless of current product availability:

We are talking here about new Defender and what Britons and many others think about it. There is a credible argument that new Defender is less Defender-like and more a Discovery with Defender accents.


Bill

43,231 posts

215 months

Tuesday 20th October
quotequote all
unsprung said:
There is a credible argument that new Defender is less Defender-like and more a Discovery with Defender accents.
If by "Defender-like" you mean dragged reluctantly into the 1980's and then left to fester, then you're right. smile

oop north

1,196 posts

88 months

Tuesday 20th October
quotequote all
ntiz said:
We are up to 12 pages of arguing over the Defender now. Has anyone actually gone for a look and a drive to make up there mind? If so what did you think?

I have seen quite a few around my neck of the woods and I think they look great. Will be going for a nosey when I’m next in getting my car serviced.
I drove one for three hours on road in the summer, and another at land rover’s Skipton off-road centre a few weeks ago. On road hated it after 10 minutes (noisy thrashy engine that is really slow joining a roundabout. Though comparing to my iPace may be unfair in this respect and the 3.0 litre engines now being sold should be much better) but after 3 hours on A roads, B roads and dual carriageway really liked it - doesn’t feel unwieldy in the way that a D4 I had for 3.5 years did, really comfortable. A bit too much wind noise at 70, but it was a windy day. Don’t like the terrible emissions - and the phev is £25k more than base 200 without having low enough co2 to make worthwhile putting through a company

The off road stuff is a bit pointless - as with the D5 I recently did the same thing in, I ended with the feeling that it was really impressive but I wouldn’t use it. The cameras etc were really easy to use and remember how to find in settings (unlike d5 where I couldn’t remember)

The boot space is disappointingly small, though - quite a bit smaller than D4 and D5 (though the middle row seats on the D5 are too low relative to floor - much better in defender), though not exactly small. With a wife and two teenage daughters that could push me into a face lifted phev D5 rather than defender, though my wife and daughters would be cross with me. They all love the new defender

Max_Torque

15,858 posts

177 months

Tuesday 20th October
quotequote all
oop north said:
On road hated it after 10 minutes (noisy thrashy engine that is really slow joining a roundabout. Though comparing to my iPace may be unfair in this respect and the 3.0 litre engines now being sold should be much better)
This is the problem with EVs, they are actually not so much re-writing the rules (on NVH, economy, performance and response) but ripping up the book and starting again! IME, even the absolute best ICE powertrains developed feel old fashioned and a bit, er, unecessarily complex, after driving even a basic EV...




thegrouch

11 posts

132 months

Tuesday 20th October
quotequote all
I'm not much of an SUV fan one way or the other, but just saw this, so everyone can chew over a US view of the Defender....


ArchiesDad

119 posts

6 months

Tuesday 20th October
quotequote all

Not read all he comments previous to my Post, just skipped thro, But having Owned 4 Defenders both 90 & 100 200Tdi, 300Tdi, Td5 and the Tdci i hate the Bloody things ! I worked on the Wolf procurement for the MOD and various Incarnations, Engines, Weapons Mounts and various suspension systems, None of them really worked as the overididng issue was lack space, Severe lack of space...... Thats why everything got cobbled on the outside.

i sold the Tdci as it was problematic, the Discovery 3 That replaced it was possibly the best car i have ever had, out of about 50.
I kept it for 7 years as it was fault less.

Replaced it with a Discovery 5 as the 4 was just an updated 3, apart from the Oil Dilution issue it's been faultless. So much room, Luxury and the ride is comfort personified.

The Defender looks like an early 3 Door Discovery to me, something that has eluded me as i opted for a 200 Tdi Defender in 1993 as the Disco was too flashy, by the time i bought my Tdci in 08 the salesman couldnt understand why i wasn't buying a D3.

I've not yet ordered a new 90 but i will, and hope to god it's a Discovery replacement and not the medieval torture device that the Old Defender was. Which was great if your 4'8" At 6'' its slightly less comfortouble and a bit more awkward,

A.J.M

6,761 posts

146 months

Tuesday 20th October
quotequote all


Can add swapping out the centre seat for a cubby box with some 2x4 wood under it to lift it high enough to be used as an arm rest.
Also wiring headlights to alternator to get proper power so they work and give out useable light.


Best thing about the new Defender.

The Walty One life live it crowd won’t go near it.
Perfect! hehe

SidewaysSi

7,995 posts

194 months

Tuesday 20th October
quotequote all
Get the G Wagen on the other thread.. smile

unsprung

5,034 posts

84 months

Tuesday 20th October
quotequote all
ntiz said:
I have seen quite a few around my neck of the woods and I think they look great.
They do look good. Especially in the classical Pangea Green.

My preferred view of this car is the rear three-quarters. It shows off best the chamfer of the beltline as well as the classical flat slice of the rear end.



unsprung

5,034 posts

84 months

Monday 26th October
quotequote all

thegrouch said:
I'm not much of an SUV fan one way or the other, but just saw this, so everyone can chew over a US view of the Defender....

Bronco and Wrangler were not included in this examination of SUVs. (and for good reason)

Most vehicles in that contest were behemoths like the following.

2021 Cadillac Escalade


2021 Genesis GV80


2020 Toyota Highlander



RumbleOfThunder

3,132 posts

163 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
unsprung said:
thegrouch said:
I'm not much of an SUV fan one way or the other, but just saw this, so everyone can chew over a US view of the Defender....

Bronco and Wrangler were not included in this examination of SUVs. (and for good reason)

Most vehicles in that contest were behemoths like the following.

2021 Cadillac Escalade


2021 Genesis GV80


2020 Toyota Highlander
So the Defender is a better SUV than the SUV's you listed, and we already know it's at least as good if not better off road than a Wrangler or a Bronco. You don't have a leg to stand on do you? hehe

unsprung

5,034 posts

84 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
RumbleOfThunder said:
So the Defender is a better SUV than the SUV's you listed, and we already know it's at least as good if not better off road than a Wrangler or a Bronco. You don't have a leg to stand on do you? hehe
Oh dear. You haven't read before writing.

(yawn)



Andeh1

6,118 posts

166 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
unsprung said:
thegrouch said:
I'm not much of an SUV fan one way or the other, but just saw this, so everyone can chew over a US view of the Defender....

Bronco and Wrangler were not included in this examination of SUVs. (and for good reason)

Most vehicles in that contest were behemoths like the following.

2021 Cadillac Escalade


2021 Genesis GV80


2020 Toyota Highlander
Why were the bronco & wrangler excluded?

andrewh

374 posts

219 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Utility vehicles are fantastic, I mean I love my Amorak but the prices for these are astounding.
Driving position looks cramped I doubt my 6ft 3 18 stone mass would like it lol.

unsprung

5,034 posts

84 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all

Andeh1 said:
Why were the bronco & wrangler excluded?
If one reads the rules that Motor Trend applies for this annual article:

. . . The vehicle must have been on-sale for X period of time already
. . . The vehicle must be newly-launched or substantially refreshed
. . . The vehicle is judged solely against its own brief; vehicles are not compared, one versus the other.

Last year, the winner was Jeep Wrangler.


RumbleOfThunder

3,132 posts

163 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
unsprung said:
RumbleOfThunder said:
So the Defender is a better SUV than the SUV's you listed, and we already know it's at least as good if not better off road than a Wrangler or a Bronco. You don't have a leg to stand on do you? hehe
Oh dear. You haven't read before writing.

(yawn)
I read just fine thanks. The Wrangler and Bronco weren't listed in that contest yet we've all seen widely circulated videos of the Defender performing fantastic off-road, one in particular showed it went where a Wrangler couldn't.

Andeh1

6,118 posts

166 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
unsprung said:
Andeh1 said:
Why were the bronco & wrangler excluded?
If one reads the rules that Motor Trend applies for this annual article:

. . . The vehicle must have been on-sale for X period of time already
. . . The vehicle must be newly-launched or substantially refreshed
. . . The vehicle is judged solely against its own brief; vehicles are not compared, one versus the other.

Last year, the winner was Jeep Wrangler.
One has better things to do then read the rules of a random foreign website's judging criteria for a sub catagory of vehicle. But I appreciate your summary all the same.


I have to admit however, the fact that the jeep won last year does devalue them as a brand/opinion. The wrangler is a one trick pony of a vehicle which fails substantially at doing anything else even remotely well. It's a specialist at being uneconomical and unsafe and cheaply built with its only saving grace being "cheap off road enthusiast". How that can be seen as the vehicle of the year for a generic "SUV" is baffling, especially when considered against the Defendern(as this year's vehicle) which is arguably one of of the best "all rounders" in the SUV catagory, so an obvious choice.

What am I missing!?

unsprung

5,034 posts

84 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
RumbleOfThunder said:
I read just fine thanks. The Wrangler and Bronco weren't listed in that contest yet we've all seen widely circulated videos of the Defender performing fantastic off-road, one in particular showed it went where a Wrangler couldn't.
On the contrary: Your reading is quite poor.

As is your tired use of anecdote.


unsprung

5,034 posts

84 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all

Andeh1 said:
What am I missing!?
Well, the rules of the article, for one thing.

You hadn't bothered to read.

There is also the matter of off-road prowess. Few doubt the capability of Defender, but you seem to think it's a problem.
In a small number of situations, yes, Defender may not perform as well as a dual-solid-axle car like Wrangler.

But most of all, you are missing the following:

Defender offers a pastiche of the off-road experience. It is, like its Discovery sibling, a sealed box designed to hold the elements at bay. (Nothing wrong with that, per se. It's what Cadillac Escalade and Genesis GV80 do, albeit as soft roaders)

The preceding all but excludes Defender from a category where Bronco and Wrangler shine:

Sense of occasion.



NomduJour

15,055 posts

219 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
Good luck selling something without any doors or a roof over here.