RE: 2020 Land Rover Defender | The short review

RE: 2020 Land Rover Defender | The short review

Author
Discussion

jembobb

3 posts

2 months

Thursday 26th March
quotequote all
Sat in one of these at Westfield during a promo event - personally I like the styling i side and out but what I couldn’t accept at the asking price was the cheap finish of many of the mouldings in the car - for example, in the back the grab handles had clear moulding ridges where the two parts joined, like a cheap hatchback from the 1980s. Just because it has a rough image doesnt mean it should feel roughly built.

300bhp/ton

37,941 posts

142 months

Thursday 26th March
quotequote all
The Mad Monk said:
Genuine answer.

I don't if I were looking to buy a 4x4, I would be looking at a Landrover group product.
The trouble is, they no longer seem to sell any thing you'd actually call a "4x4". All they have is plastic posing machines that all look rather similar, are heavily compromised as proper off road vehicles. And all very very expensive.

This new vehicle looks to be a superb DISCOVERY. But it is not in any shape or form a Defender. It doesn't even look like one or share a single design clue with the heritage of the brand.

I know there is a lot of interest currently, because it's new and shiny. Just as there was with the Discovery 3 when it was launched. But I do wonder if history will not look so favourably on this model. And if you look about, not all reviews and comments are positive about this new Pretender.


Back in the 1980's Dodge revitalised the Charger name with this:


However history has not been kind to it. I suspect for many, this new plastic model from Land Rover might be viewed in a similar manner in time to come.


Now this isn't me hating the actual vehicle. The vehicle itself is fine. It just carries the wrong name and simply isn't what it is pretending to be.

KevinCamaroSS

8,336 posts

232 months

Thursday 26th March
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
The trouble is, they no longer seem to sell any thing you'd actually call a "4x4". All they have is plastic posing machines that all look rather similar, are heavily compromised as proper off road vehicles. And all very very expensive.

This new vehicle looks to be a superb DISCOVERY. But it is not in any shape or form a Defender. It doesn't even look like one or share a single design clue with the heritage of the brand.

I know there is a lot of interest currently, because it's new and shiny. Just as there was with the Discovery 3 when it was launched. But I do wonder if history will not look so favourably on this model. And if you look about, not all reviews and comments are positive about this new Pretender.


Back in the 1980's Dodge revitalised the Charger name with this:


However history has not been kind to it. I suspect for many, this new plastic model from Land Rover might be viewed in a similar manner in time to come.


Now this isn't me hating the actual vehicle. The vehicle itself is fine. It just carries the wrong name and simply isn't what it is pretending to be.
I agree 100%. To be a defender it needs to compete with pick-ups as the vehicle of choice for farmers. I live in Herefordshire, loads of Defenders around. Most are now being re-furbed to keep going rather than being replaced.

Shakermaker

10,780 posts

52 months

Thursday 26th March
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How have so many of you missed the part that a commercial version is due, but hasn't been launched yet?

rastapasta

616 posts

90 months

Thursday 26th March
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595Heaven said:
rastapasta said:
Brutal but true. The max towing weights are not published which tells us all we need to know as to the target market.
They are ‘hidden’ here https://www.landrover.co.uk/vehicles/defender/spec...

Virtually impossible to find I know , so I’ll make it easy for you...

Unbraked 750kg, max towing 3,500kg
thank you. i meant that the towing weights are not published in the review. But if you are referring to my laziness then i take your point. Interestingly the figures are not bad and one would think that the diesel might actually be quite a good towing engine. Although trying to persuade a farmer to part with his Landcruiser, forester, L200 et al for this may be a stretch.

300bhp/ton

37,941 posts

142 months

Thursday 26th March
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Shakermaker said:
How have so many of you missed the part that a commercial version is due, but hasn't been launched yet?
How does that make it any more Defender?

There have been commercial versions of the Discovery 2, 3, & 4 as well as the Freelander. This didn't make any of those any more Defender either.

Bill

40,946 posts

207 months

Thursday 26th March
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595Heaven said:
Bill said:
I just need a beam axle mention for my Bingo card.
biggrin
Nearly! TBH I'd settle for a "it can be turned into a pickup by just removing a couple of panels".

PushedDover

525 posts

5 months

Thursday 26th March
quotequote all
KevinCamaroSS said:
I agree 100%. To be a defender it needs to compete with pick-ups as the vehicle of choice for farmers. I live in Herefordshire, loads of Defenders around. Most are now being re-furbed to keep going rather than being replaced.
I agree. It needs to be a LR full bodied version of a pickup.
Before all the fan club jump on me, I know there is a commercial version, but that will carry 90% of the tech and costs associated. For it to be used by the farmers (of the world) the prioce has to be elsewhere IMHO

300bhp/ton

37,941 posts

142 months

Thursday 26th March
quotequote all
Shakermaker said:
How have so many of you missed the part that a commercial version is due, but hasn't been launched yet?
Here is a list of attributes that define what a "Defender" was, or indeed a list that could equally apply pretty much the entire line of Land Rover models from the 1948 80" Series 1 through the vehicles evolution (Series II, IIa, III, Stage 1), right up to the final 2016 Defender model.

  • Modular body design
  • Utilitarian premised
  • Ladder chassis
  • Live axles
  • Birmabright panels
  • Folding windscreen
  • Removable door tops
  • PTO capability
  • Manual gearboxes
  • V8 engines
  • Proper suspension flex and axle articulation
  • Heavy duty hub and PCD
  • Pickup variants
  • Boxy body design and flat panels
  • Relatively small vehicle foot print and narrow width
  • Function over form rather than form over function
  • Native off road capability of the design and platform without needing to rely on electronics to give it any ability in the rough
  • Non plush interiors (another function over form thing)
  • Simple and durable design
  • Sensible tough bumpers and a lack of painted plastic
  • A vehicle that you feel connected to your surroundings in, rather than distanced. On road and especially off road.

Does this new model share any of the above?

Bill

40,946 posts

207 months

Thursday 26th March
quotequote all
shoutBINGOOOO!!!!

300, we've gone over this same ground one zillion times. Please, please move on. Pretty please...

Cold

8,483 posts

42 months

Thursday 26th March
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
Here is a list of attributes that define what a "Defender" was, or indeed a list that could equally apply pretty much the entire line of Land Rover models from the 1948 80" Series 1 through the vehicles evolution (Series II, IIa, III, Stage 1), right up to the final 2016 Defender model.

  • Modular body design
  • Utilitarian premised
  • Ladder chassis
  • Live axles
  • Birmabright panels
  • Folding windscreen
  • Removable door tops
  • PTO capability
  • Manual gearboxes
  • V8 engines
  • Proper suspension flex and axle articulation
  • Heavy duty hub and PCD
  • Pickup variants
  • Boxy body design and flat panels
  • Relatively small vehicle foot print and narrow width
  • Function over form rather than form over function
  • Native off road capability of the design and platform without needing to rely on electronics to give it any ability in the rough
  • Non plush interiors (another function over form thing)
  • Simple and durable design
  • Sensible tough bumpers and a lack of painted plastic
  • A vehicle that you feel connected to your surroundings in, rather than distanced. On road and especially off road.

Does this new model share any of the above?
There is another huge list of Defender attributes and I hope to God this new one shares none of them.

300bhp/ton

37,941 posts

142 months

Thursday 26th March
quotequote all
Cold said:
There is another huge list of Defender attributes and I hope to God this new one shares none of them.
Don't think it is that huge. The old ones historically leaked quite readily. Which there is little need for with a modern designed body tub. Nothing really wrong with the rest of the design however.

The old Defender handled very well, was fun to pilot. Was generally pretty comfortable and rode well.

There being very little wrong with the basic design is why it remained in production 68 years!!! And why almost every major car maker in the world makes a vehicle to a similar formula still.

Shakermaker

10,780 posts

52 months

Thursday 26th March
quotequote all
Generally pretty comfortable?

I LOVE the old Defender, but there is no model I have ever driven that was anything close to comfortable. Characterful is the best I could manage.

300bhp/ton

37,941 posts

142 months

Thursday 26th March
quotequote all
Shakermaker said:
Generally pretty comfortable?

I LOVE the old Defender, but there is no model I have ever driven that was anything close to comfortable. Characterful is the best I could manage.
What aspects are you using to define comfort?

They lacked mod cons and powerful in car entertainment systems. But the latter models are pretty quiet inside, they ride the bumps well, they don't wollow. The physical seats are comfortable. And the controls are in a good place.

If you are tall, there might be a bit of a lack of leg room, but not so for more average height people.

I'm not claiming Rolls Royce or Bentley levels of comfort. But they are certainly not uncomfortable at all.

Shakermaker

10,780 posts

52 months

Thursday 26th March
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
Shakermaker said:
Generally pretty comfortable?

I LOVE the old Defender, but there is no model I have ever driven that was anything close to comfortable. Characterful is the best I could manage.
What aspects are you using to define comfort?

They lacked mod cons and powerful in car entertainment systems. But the latter models are pretty quiet inside, they ride the bumps well, they don't wollow. The physical seats are comfortable. And the controls are in a good place.

If you are tall, there might be a bit of a lack of leg room, but not so for more average height people.

I'm not claiming Rolls Royce or Bentley levels of comfort. But they are certainly not uncomfortable at all.
The last model I tried was about 2012 I think. Couldn't fit in the seat with the door closed, still, without twisting myself to an impractical angle. Just the same as in the old series 3 my cousin has, or the old 90 a mate used to won. Yes, I am tall. But lots of people are tall these days. Now they can have a Defender too!

(Sadly being tall, it also precludes ownership of a Jimny like yours (or the old model) and a DeTomaso Pantera. But I can at least usually see the band at a gig)

Bill

40,946 posts

207 months

Thursday 26th March
quotequote all
Shakermaker said:
The last model I tried was about 2012 I think. Couldn't fit in the seat with the door closed, still, without twisting myself to an impractical angle. Just the same as in the old series 3 my cousin has, or the old 90 a mate used to won. Yes, I am tall. But lots of people are tall these days. Now they can have a Defender too!

(Sadly being tall, it also precludes ownership of a Jimny like yours (or the old model) and a DeTomaso Pantera. But I can at least usually see the band at a gig)
And an Esprit. frown

I've done 10s of thousands of miles in one, and lots of them off road and you get used to it. But I went in a friend's recently and it was awful! Hilariously bad.

AngryPartsBloke

911 posts

103 months

Thursday 26th March
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
A load of tired, boring, meaningless tosh removed from reality
You are a sad, strange little man..and you have my pity.

300bhp/ton

37,941 posts

142 months

Thursday 26th March
quotequote all
AngryPartsBloke said:
You are a sad, strange little man..and you have my pity.
Why the insults?? Is there something wrong with you?

300bhp/ton

37,941 posts

142 months

Thursday 26th March
quotequote all
Shakermaker said:
The last model I tried was about 2012 I think. Couldn't fit in the seat with the door closed, still, without twisting myself to an impractical angle. Just the same as in the old series 3 my cousin has, or the old 90 a mate used to won. Yes, I am tall. But lots of people are tall these days. Now they can have a Defender too!

(Sadly being tall, it also precludes ownership of a Jimny like yours (or the old model) and a DeTomaso Pantera. But I can at least usually see the band at a gig)
The cabin space is pretty similar from the Series !! (1958) onwards. Slightly better in a 90/110 vs the Series models. But the door opening is the same on all.

I would say, I do know several tall people who have Defenders as their daily transport. I guess it depends what shape you are to how comfortable they are in this regard. Although this single aspect doesn't mean the vehicle as a whole is an unpleasant place to be.

Santana addressed this with their PS10 by removing the seat boxes and bulkhead. Thus allowing more space.



LR could have done similar with the Defender. They did offer the bulkhead delete on some variants and the NAS models.


N.B. - The PS10 was a variation of the 109 platform developed by Spanish company Santana and sold under licence. At times they also assembled and built CKD (complete knocked down) Land Rover's also. But they often improved the models such as the PS10.

AngryPartsBloke

911 posts

103 months

Thursday 26th March
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
Why the insults?? Is there something wrong with you?
No but there's clearly something wrong with you, despite any objective evidence to the contrary you continue to bang out the same rubbish.

I notice you haven't entered into the longer thread about the Namibia trip.