Ask a car salesman anything...anything at all (Vol. 2).
Discussion
Fast Bug said:
jamoor said:
Fast Bug said:
I'll be honest, I wouldn't want a car that I've spent a load of my cash being a robot taxi. I'm sure that governments around the world will start taxing you on that income as well, which makes it even less desirable to me.
Governments already tax you on income. But yeah if a robotaxi could make you £50 a day while you're at work I'd take them up on the deal, especially as there is a camera above the rear view mirror watching the occupants.
Imagine the state of your £50,000 car after it's spent all night robotically ferrying the local drunks around. Piss, vomit and bits of kebab everywhere to greet you the next morning when you set off to work or want to take your family out.
The only people turning a profit will be car valeters.
Plus people will probably vandalise it or nick bits. Why pay for that screen upgrade if you can take it from someone else's car? Car dealers on here will know they have to remove anything that can be easily stolen from stock cars, so I suppose there could be money in replacing stolen parts, unless you just hire someone else's car for the night and nick back whatever you've lost.
Fast Bug said:
As Butters says, I did a deal in December for 101 vans that "lost" £200k. But that kicked in nearly £700k of bonus money.
The manufacturers dangle massive carrots knowing some numpty will do silly deals for then.
Building supplies trade is exactly the same, all back end money.The manufacturers dangle massive carrots knowing some numpty will do silly deals for then.
BMW have been providing over the air software updates for a while now, free of charge.
https://uk.motor1.com/news/351638/bmw-over-the-air...
https://uk.motor1.com/news/351638/bmw-over-the-air...
Butter Face said:
Blakewater said:
Do factories build cars on spec with no end customer or is every one initially ordered by a dealer, even if a different dealer grabs it when a customer asks for that spec?
Factories just build cars, no end user, no sale. They just build different specs/engines/colours etc and then the cars get picked up by dealers when sold.Blakewater said:
Fast Bug said:
jamoor said:
Fast Bug said:
I'll be honest, I wouldn't want a car that I've spent a load of my cash being a robot taxi. I'm sure that governments around the world will start taxing you on that income as well, which makes it even less desirable to me.
Governments already tax you on income. But yeah if a robotaxi could make you £50 a day while you're at work I'd take them up on the deal, especially as there is a camera above the rear view mirror watching the occupants.
Imagine the state of your £50,000 car after it's spent all night robotically ferrying the local drunks around. Piss, vomit and bits of kebab everywhere to greet you the next morning when you set off to work or want to take your family out.
The only people turning a profit will be car valeters.
Plus people will probably vandalise it or nick bits. Why pay for that screen upgrade if you can take it from someone else's car? Car dealers on here will know they have to remove anything that can be easily stolen from stock cars, so I suppose there could be money in replacing stolen parts, unless you just hire someone else's car for the night and nick back whatever you've lost.
I suspect there will be insurance to cover against the type of vandalism you mention, maybe that's why theres very little to the Model 3 interior? Also there is a camera watching the occupants above the rear view, will that be nicked too? Think of it like airbnb, 99.9% of rentals are perfect with the 0.01% that turn into a disaster thats covered by airbnb (in theory). Uber also blocks people that are bad riders AFAIK.
WIth the rise of online distance buying given covid I understand any buyer can just return the car within 30 days and get a refund?
If this is the case then what happens regarding the V5 and owner count?
does the dealer wait 30 days before registering it to the owner to avoid another owner on the logbook or can they de register it?
Or is it a case of just following normal procedure and take it back and have another (short term) wner on the V5?
If this is the case then what happens regarding the V5 and owner count?
does the dealer wait 30 days before registering it to the owner to avoid another owner on the logbook or can they de register it?
Or is it a case of just following normal procedure and take it back and have another (short term) wner on the V5?
lord trumpton said:
WIth the rise of online distance buying given covid I understand any buyer can just return the car within 30 days and get a refund?
If this is the case then what happens regarding the V5 and owner count?
does the dealer wait 30 days before registering it to the owner to avoid another owner on the logbook or can they de register it?
Or is it a case of just following normal procedure and take it back and have another (short term) wner on the V5?
14 days not 30. If this is the case then what happens regarding the V5 and owner count?
does the dealer wait 30 days before registering it to the owner to avoid another owner on the logbook or can they de register it?
Or is it a case of just following normal procedure and take it back and have another (short term) wner on the V5?
Even so could be a bit of a ball ache for dealers if certain punters start trying it on.
jamoor said:
Just don't send your car out at 2am!
I suspect there will be insurance to cover against the type of vandalism you mention, maybe that's why theres very little to the Model 3 interior? Also there is a camera watching the occupants above the rear view, will that be nicked too? Think of it like airbnb, 99.9% of rentals are perfect with the 0.01% that turn into a disaster thats covered by airbnb (in theory). Uber also blocks people that are bad riders AFAIK.
As interesting as this all is, I was under the impression that Tesla would be running the cars themselves, or leasing them to taxi firms. I’d be surprised if there was any expectation that privately owned cars would take a turn as taxis, and I’d quite like to see the source for this... I suspect there will be insurance to cover against the type of vandalism you mention, maybe that's why theres very little to the Model 3 interior? Also there is a camera watching the occupants above the rear view, will that be nicked too? Think of it like airbnb, 99.9% of rentals are perfect with the 0.01% that turn into a disaster thats covered by airbnb (in theory). Uber also blocks people that are bad riders AFAIK.
I can’t see a model that uses privately owned cars making any kind of sense. You almost certainly wouldn’t get the required uptake to make it viable due to the risk vs. low reward, and the reputational damage when someone vandalises a car would kill it pretty quickly.
jamoor said:
The big mistake you are making in understanding why the Dealership model won't work in the future is the difference between business models of Tesla and everyone else.
If mercedes shut its plants for a month and produced and sold no cars it would recieve pretty much no income. Mercedes make money by selling cars as consumables with a 15 year lifespan then they hopefully sell another. This keeps their business running and they hope to continue to sell cars and make money.
The tesla business model turns the actual cars into money making opportunities, one of their aims was to fully automate the manufacturing process as much as possible so you can just reduce output if needed and it wont make a difference to labour costs.
The more important one is to turn the cars into units that continue to make money once the leave the door with software features, hardware upgrades (you can upgrade the Model S screen to something more modern) but most importantly into a self driving taxi, with Tesla taking a commission on every ride.
This way if they aren't selling cars they are still making money. This way there is less pressure to get units out the door and money back to the Manufacturer as they get it via services, its just like the iphone, they will sell you an iphone for £1,000 and then get you to sign up to icloud, buy a bunch of apps through which they get 30% comission on the sale and you download music from apple music.
Couple that with the cars allegedly lasting 500k+ and dealerships relying on servicing to make money, it really is the death knell for the franchised model If it all works out.
None of that has anything to do with the question posed regarding volumes and why reducing those by 90% is a total non starter for any mass car producer. If mercedes shut its plants for a month and produced and sold no cars it would recieve pretty much no income. Mercedes make money by selling cars as consumables with a 15 year lifespan then they hopefully sell another. This keeps their business running and they hope to continue to sell cars and make money.
The tesla business model turns the actual cars into money making opportunities, one of their aims was to fully automate the manufacturing process as much as possible so you can just reduce output if needed and it wont make a difference to labour costs.
The more important one is to turn the cars into units that continue to make money once the leave the door with software features, hardware upgrades (you can upgrade the Model S screen to something more modern) but most importantly into a self driving taxi, with Tesla taking a commission on every ride.
This way if they aren't selling cars they are still making money. This way there is less pressure to get units out the door and money back to the Manufacturer as they get it via services, its just like the iphone, they will sell you an iphone for £1,000 and then get you to sign up to icloud, buy a bunch of apps through which they get 30% comission on the sale and you download music from apple music.
Couple that with the cars allegedly lasting 500k+ and dealerships relying on servicing to make money, it really is the death knell for the franchised model If it all works out.
Adding additional revenue streams post delivery is a different topic all together and doesn't alter the fact that you need manufacturing scale to even start to look at that seriously.
Wills2 said:
jamoor said:
The big mistake you are making in understanding why the Dealership model won't work in the future is the difference between business models of Tesla and everyone else.
If mercedes shut its plants for a month and produced and sold no cars it would recieve pretty much no income. Mercedes make money by selling cars as consumables with a 15 year lifespan then they hopefully sell another. This keeps their business running and they hope to continue to sell cars and make money.
The tesla business model turns the actual cars into money making opportunities, one of their aims was to fully automate the manufacturing process as much as possible so you can just reduce output if needed and it wont make a difference to labour costs.
The more important one is to turn the cars into units that continue to make money once the leave the door with software features, hardware upgrades (you can upgrade the Model S screen to something more modern) but most importantly into a self driving taxi, with Tesla taking a commission on every ride.
This way if they aren't selling cars they are still making money. This way there is less pressure to get units out the door and money back to the Manufacturer as they get it via services, its just like the iphone, they will sell you an iphone for £1,000 and then get you to sign up to icloud, buy a bunch of apps through which they get 30% comission on the sale and you download music from apple music.
Couple that with the cars allegedly lasting 500k+ and dealerships relying on servicing to make money, it really is the death knell for the franchised model If it all works out.
None of that has anything to do with the question posed regarding volumes and why reducing those by 90% is a total non starter for any mass car producer. If mercedes shut its plants for a month and produced and sold no cars it would recieve pretty much no income. Mercedes make money by selling cars as consumables with a 15 year lifespan then they hopefully sell another. This keeps their business running and they hope to continue to sell cars and make money.
The tesla business model turns the actual cars into money making opportunities, one of their aims was to fully automate the manufacturing process as much as possible so you can just reduce output if needed and it wont make a difference to labour costs.
The more important one is to turn the cars into units that continue to make money once the leave the door with software features, hardware upgrades (you can upgrade the Model S screen to something more modern) but most importantly into a self driving taxi, with Tesla taking a commission on every ride.
This way if they aren't selling cars they are still making money. This way there is less pressure to get units out the door and money back to the Manufacturer as they get it via services, its just like the iphone, they will sell you an iphone for £1,000 and then get you to sign up to icloud, buy a bunch of apps through which they get 30% comission on the sale and you download music from apple music.
Couple that with the cars allegedly lasting 500k+ and dealerships relying on servicing to make money, it really is the death knell for the franchised model If it all works out.
Adding additional revenue streams post delivery is a different topic all together and doesn't alter the fact that you need manufacturing scale to even start to look at that seriously.
Your point about economies of scale is indeed correct for now unless there are rapid advances in new manufacturing technologies such as 3D printing.
DanL said:
As interesting as this all is, I was under the impression that Tesla would be running the cars themselves, or leasing them to taxi firms. I’d be surprised if there was any expectation that privately owned cars would take a turn as taxis, and I’d quite like to see the source for this...
I can’t see a model that uses privately owned cars making any kind of sense. You almost certainly wouldn’t get the required uptake to make it viable due to the risk vs. low reward, and the reputational damage when someone vandalises a car would kill it pretty quickly.
It literally says it here on the Tesla websiteI can’t see a model that uses privately owned cars making any kind of sense. You almost certainly wouldn’t get the required uptake to make it viable due to the risk vs. low reward, and the reputational damage when someone vandalises a car would kill it pretty quickly.
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/master-plan-part-...
People said the same thing about Airbnb who would let a stranger stay in their home?
jamoor said:
DanL said:
As interesting as this all is, I was under the impression that Tesla would be running the cars themselves, or leasing them to taxi firms. I’d be surprised if there was any expectation that privately owned cars would take a turn as taxis, and I’d quite like to see the source for this...
I can’t see a model that uses privately owned cars making any kind of sense. You almost certainly wouldn’t get the required uptake to make it viable due to the risk vs. low reward, and the reputational damage when someone vandalises a car would kill it pretty quickly.
It literally says it here on the Tesla websiteI can’t see a model that uses privately owned cars making any kind of sense. You almost certainly wouldn’t get the required uptake to make it viable due to the risk vs. low reward, and the reputational damage when someone vandalises a car would kill it pretty quickly.
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/master-plan-part-...
People said the same thing about Airbnb who would let a stranger stay in their home?
Sharing
When true self-driving is approved by regulators, it will mean that you will be able to summon your Tesla from pretty much anywhere. Once it picks you up, you will be able to sleep, read or do anything else enroute to your destination.
You will also be able to add your car to the Tesla shared fleet just by tapping a button on the Tesla phone app and have it generate income for you while you're at work or on vacation, significantly offsetting and at times potentially exceeding the monthly loan or lease cost. This dramatically lowers the true cost of ownership to the point where almost anyone could own a Tesla. Since most cars are only in use by their owner for 5% to 10% of the day, the fundamental economic utility of a true self-driving car is likely to be several times that of a car which is not.
In cities where demand exceeds the supply of customer-owned cars, Tesla will operate its own fleet, ensuring you can always hail a ride from us no matter where you are.
I still don’t see that enough owners will want to share that this is viable, without the bit in bold being true everywhere. It’s an expensive enough car that money isn’t too much of a problem for owners, while at the same time being at a price point where it’s likely to be the only car, or one of two in a household. The people renting them out will be the people who can’t afford one, but want a new one for some reason.
I’m not sure air bnb is a straight comparison. That’s an easy way of generating income from a second home you might otherwise choose to keep empty, rather than time sharing the same thing on the same day.
The analogy would be that you go in to work, and while at work let out your lounge as office space. That’s great until you get home early, the person working there stays late, or some other thing happens. I don’t want crumbs from someone else’s lunch covering my carpet when I get home, and I don’t want someone messing up my car either.
But I’m on PH, so I might be in the minority when it comes to cars I suppose...DanL said:
This bit, for those who don’t want to search,
Sharing
When true self-driving is approved by regulators, it will mean that you will be able to summon your Tesla from pretty much anywhere. Once it picks you up, you will be able to sleep, read or do anything else enroute to your destination.
You will also be able to add your car to the Tesla shared fleet just by tapping a button on the Tesla phone app and have it generate income for you while you're at work or on vacation, significantly offsetting and at times potentially exceeding the monthly loan or lease cost. This dramatically lowers the true cost of ownership to the point where almost anyone could own a Tesla. Since most cars are only in use by their owner for 5% to 10% of the day, the fundamental economic utility of a true self-driving car is likely to be several times that of a car which is not.
In cities where demand exceeds the supply of customer-owned cars, Tesla will operate its own fleet, ensuring you can always hail a ride from us no matter where you are.
I still don’t see that enough owners will want to share that this is viable, without the bit in bold being true everywhere. It’s an expensive enough car that money isn’t too much of a problem for owners, while at the same time being at a price point where it’s likely to be the only car, or one of two in a household. The people renting them out will be the people who can’t afford one, but want a new one for some reason.
I’m not sure air bnb is a straight comparison. That’s an easy way of generating income from a second home you might otherwise choose to keep empty, rather than time sharing the same thing on the same day.
The analogy would be that you go in to work, and while at work let out your lounge as office space. That’s great until you get home early, the person working there stays late, or some other thing happens. I don’t want crumbs from someone else’s lunch covering my carpet when I get home, and I don’t want someone messing up my car either. But I’m on PH, so I might be in the minority when it comes to cars I suppose...
If all of that is true and you can share your car and clear 10k off it a year.Sharing
When true self-driving is approved by regulators, it will mean that you will be able to summon your Tesla from pretty much anywhere. Once it picks you up, you will be able to sleep, read or do anything else enroute to your destination.
You will also be able to add your car to the Tesla shared fleet just by tapping a button on the Tesla phone app and have it generate income for you while you're at work or on vacation, significantly offsetting and at times potentially exceeding the monthly loan or lease cost. This dramatically lowers the true cost of ownership to the point where almost anyone could own a Tesla. Since most cars are only in use by their owner for 5% to 10% of the day, the fundamental economic utility of a true self-driving car is likely to be several times that of a car which is not.
In cities where demand exceeds the supply of customer-owned cars, Tesla will operate its own fleet, ensuring you can always hail a ride from us no matter where you are.
I still don’t see that enough owners will want to share that this is viable, without the bit in bold being true everywhere. It’s an expensive enough car that money isn’t too much of a problem for owners, while at the same time being at a price point where it’s likely to be the only car, or one of two in a household. The people renting them out will be the people who can’t afford one, but want a new one for some reason.
I’m not sure air bnb is a straight comparison. That’s an easy way of generating income from a second home you might otherwise choose to keep empty, rather than time sharing the same thing on the same day.
The analogy would be that you go in to work, and while at work let out your lounge as office space. That’s great until you get home early, the person working there stays late, or some other thing happens. I don’t want crumbs from someone else’s lunch covering my carpet when I get home, and I don’t want someone messing up my car either.
But I’m on PH, so I might be in the minority when it comes to cars I suppose...To me it seems a very good deal. Imagine buying a house for 400k and being about to rent it out for 100k a year, people will be queueing up around the block to buy that house.
And it’s exactly like air bnb you are letting strangers use your assets for money.
If your holiday home is empty 10 months of the year it’s the same as a car being parked all day.
I understand the thinking and logic but it just seems so far fetched.
Edited by jamoor on Sunday 31st May 14:47
Hi there,
I wasn’t sure whether to start a new post but this is a car salesman question.
I am thinking to buy a USED vehicle for £30k from a dealership.
1) Does it make a difference when is the best time to buy? End of the month?
2) How much can I negotiate with the salesman?
3) Can the sales executive choose a price to what they want to sell at? I’ve heard of some salesman just being arses and do a hard sell or no negotiation
4) any other tips? Freebies to ask for ?!
Cheers in advance
I wasn’t sure whether to start a new post but this is a car salesman question.
I am thinking to buy a USED vehicle for £30k from a dealership.
1) Does it make a difference when is the best time to buy? End of the month?
2) How much can I negotiate with the salesman?
3) Can the sales executive choose a price to what they want to sell at? I’ve heard of some salesman just being arses and do a hard sell or no negotiation
4) any other tips? Freebies to ask for ?!
Cheers in advance
SuperYou said:
Hi there,
I wasn’t sure whether to start a new post but this is a car salesman question.
I am thinking to buy a USED vehicle for £30k from a dealership.
1) Does it make a difference when is the best time to buy? End of the month?
2) How much can I negotiate with the salesman?
3) Can the sales executive choose a price to what they want to sell at? I’ve heard of some salesman just being arses and do a hard sell or no negotiation
4) any other tips? Freebies to ask for ?!
Cheers in advance
1) Sometimes, depends on how the dealer targets are set up. I wasn’t sure whether to start a new post but this is a car salesman question.
I am thinking to buy a USED vehicle for £30k from a dealership.
1) Does it make a difference when is the best time to buy? End of the month?
2) How much can I negotiate with the salesman?
3) Can the sales executive choose a price to what they want to sell at? I’ve heard of some salesman just being arses and do a hard sell or no negotiation
4) any other tips? Freebies to ask for ?!
Cheers in advance
2) Nothing or something, there are too many variables, if it's priced in line with similar cars out there then likely not, it's really a "how long is a piece of string?" question.
3) Probably not. Why are they being "arses", if the price is correct then why should there be a discount?
4) Don't go in expecting a discount "just because", if it's priced a little too high vs equivalent cars then go in armed with proof. Don't be a dick, don't go in acting the alpha male, chances are they will try their best to get shot of you, come across as the "big I am" and you will be flagged up as likely too much hassle to deal with. "Freebies" all come out of the profit in the car, if it's due a service in 6m time try and push for the service prior to collection.
As has been mentioned countless times, the Internet has made the world a far smaller place, cars have to be priced competitively and correctly in the first place to get any type of look in, used cars generally are priced correctly in the first place, go in expecting to pay the asking price and any discount or "freebie" that you negotiate, see it as a bonus.
HTP99 said:
SuperYou said:
Hi there,
I wasn’t sure whether to start a new post but this is a car salesman question.
I am thinking to buy a USED vehicle for £30k from a dealership.
1) Does it make a difference when is the best time to buy? End of the month?
2) How much can I negotiate with the salesman?
3) Can the sales executive choose a price to what they want to sell at? I’ve heard of some salesman just being arses and do a hard sell or no negotiation
4) any other tips? Freebies to ask for ?!
Cheers in advance
1) Sometimes, depends on how the dealer targets are set up. I wasn’t sure whether to start a new post but this is a car salesman question.
I am thinking to buy a USED vehicle for £30k from a dealership.
1) Does it make a difference when is the best time to buy? End of the month?
2) How much can I negotiate with the salesman?
3) Can the sales executive choose a price to what they want to sell at? I’ve heard of some salesman just being arses and do a hard sell or no negotiation
4) any other tips? Freebies to ask for ?!
Cheers in advance
2) Nothing or something, there are too many variables, if it's priced in line with similar cars out there then likely not, it's really a "how long is a piece of string?" question.
3) Probably not. Why are they being "arses", if the price is correct then why should there be a discount?
4) Don't go in expecting a discount "just because", if it's priced a little too high vs equivalent cars then go in armed with proof. Don't be a dick, don't go in acting the alpha male, chances are they will try their best to get shot of you, come across as the "big I am" and you will be flagged up as likely too much hassle to deal with. "Freebies" all come out of the profit in the car, if it's due a service in 6m time try and push for the service prior to collection.
As has been mentioned countless times, the Internet has made the world a far smaller place, cars have to be priced competitively and correctly in the first place to get any type of look in, used cars generally are priced correctly in the first place, go in expecting to pay the asking price and any discount or "freebie" that you negotiate, see it as a bonus.
The first time, the salesman simply said he couldn't match that price and to go and buy that cheaper car.
The second time, with the car I have now, the salesman came down to a pretty good match on the price. It was close enough that I bought from him rather than deal with a dealership much further from home.
That was just before Christmas and prices now seem to be higher than they were then.
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