Ask a car salesman anything...anything at all (Vol. 2).

Ask a car salesman anything...anything at all (Vol. 2).

Author
Discussion

Butter Face

24,598 posts

127 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
jamoor said:
/Have you looked at the servicing requirements for most evs? I'd suspect when they become more commonplace the servicing element will be removed(much like Tesla did) and make it into a selling point.


According to the article you can't buy the car in a showroom, thats a big deal.
Yes, I have, have you? Most mainstream brands require servicing to meet their warranty requirements, you’re welcome to go and trawl through them if you want to prove me wrong. I’ll wait.

And if you read the press release https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/2020/05/all-v... you’ll see that customers can switch online/offline as they please, so you can register your interest online, then visit a dealer, drive a car, spec a car, order a car and pick it up, which to be completely blunt, is what most normal people will do. But for the small minority of people they can order one and wait for it to turn up. Vive la révolution!

“The agency model brings significant financial relief for dealers, and that is particularly important at the present time. Our partners can therefore focus on what makes retail so indispensable: personal, competent customer care. I am delighted that all partners have signed the jointly drafted agreement. That is confirmation of the great trust in the agency model and our association.”

Nice word that.

Edited by Butter Face on Thursday 21st May 20:19


Edited by Butter Face on Thursday 21st May 20:21

Blakewater

3,782 posts

124 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
Just come across this tweet with the process of collecting a car with social distancing and protection.

https://twitter.com/Williams_BMW/status/1262343616...

Is everyone here going through this sort of thing with customers now.

Their handover photos are going back up on Twitter again. Though no more handshakes.

Butter Face

24,598 posts

127 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
Blakewater said:
Just come across this tweet with the process of collecting a car with social distancing and protection.

https://twitter.com/Williams_BMW/status/1262343616...

Is everyone here going through this sort of thing with customers now.

Their handover photos are going back up on Twitter again. Though no more handshakes.
Yes but with a bit less drama. Cars cleaned, sanitised and parked in handover area 2 days before collection. Meet customer outside, keys are on the windscreen in a bag. Wave goodbye!

We’ve sent some handover videos for people who have needed them but most people are keys and go!

StescoG66

1,478 posts

110 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
jamoor said:
https://www.engadget.com/volkswagen-will-only-sell...

Gosh I love being right.

Manufacturers are removing the autonomy of dealerships, I wonder when dealerships will cotton onto the fact that they aren't needed hehe
Oh fk. He’s back.......... rolleyes

lord trumpton

5,883 posts

93 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
Mr MXT said:
Do you honestly like those pointy shoes?
What about those way too close fitting suits?

mfmman

1,052 posts

150 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
Butter Face said:
Yes but with a bit less drama. Cars cleaned, sanitised and parked in handover area 2 days before collection. Meet customer outside, keys are on the windscreen in a bag. Wave goodbye!

We’ve sent some handover videos for people who have needed them but most people are keys and go!
All looks easy and sensible enough, now if only the BMW dealer would respond to the enquiry I made on Monday about a used car they have we may be in business frown

Sheepshanks

24,382 posts

86 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
Butter Face said:
Yes they will because VW themselves won’t want to own and operate hundreds of test drive centres with thousands of cars around the country, that’s why a franchise model works.
I work with manufacturers in a different field and most of them will do anything to avoid dealing with end customers - they pay distributors to do it, and from what I can gather from retail car sales, at a far larger margin, for mostly doing a lot less than a car dealer does.

It's also worth bearing in mind that VW UK doesn't do much itself - pretty well everything is outsourced. Call VW UK customer services and you're speaking to a Capita call centre.

I guess VW will be able to run this fixed price model as demand is likely to far exceed availability for some time.

jamoor

14,506 posts

182 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
Butter Face said:
jamoor said:
/Have you looked at the servicing requirements for most evs? I'd suspect when they become more commonplace the servicing element will be removed(much like Tesla did) and make it into a selling point.


According to the article you can't buy the car in a showroom, thats a big deal.
Yes, I have, have you? Most mainstream brands require servicing to meet their warranty requirements, you’re welcome to go and trawl through them if you want to prove me wrong. I’ll wait.

And if you read the press release https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/2020/05/all-v... you’ll see that customers can switch online/offline as they please, so you can register your interest online, then visit a dealer, drive a car, spec a car, order a car and pick it up, which to be completely blunt, is what most normal people will do. But for the small minority of people they can order one and wait for it to turn up. Vive la révolution!

“The agency model brings significant financial relief for dealers, and that is particularly important at the present time. Our partners can therefore focus on what makes retail so indispensable: personal, competent customer care. I am delighted that all partners have signed the jointly drafted agreement. That is confirmation of the great trust in the agency model and our association.”

Nice word that.

Edited by Butter Face on Thursday 21st May 20:19


Edited by Butter Face on Thursday 21st May 20:21
Yes I have, the servicing is that minimal on EVs to the point that an MOT will suffice.

Let me make this clear, I am not saying that Retail stores will disappear, I am saying that the days of a Franchised dealership business model are numbered. They are being told how much they can make, and the servicing for sure will be the same. With more EVs I am fairly sure that companies will compete on servicing costs for EVs.

This is merely a stepping stone to that eventuality.

In addition will salesmen still get commissions ?


Edited by jamoor on Friday 22 May 00:57

Blakewater

3,782 posts

124 months

Friday 22nd May 2020
quotequote all
mfmman said:
Butter Face said:
Yes but with a bit less drama. Cars cleaned, sanitised and parked in handover area 2 days before collection. Meet customer outside, keys are on the windscreen in a bag. Wave goodbye!

We’ve sent some handover videos for people who have needed them but most people are keys and go!
All looks easy and sensible enough, now if only the BMW dealer would respond to the enquiry I made on Monday about a used car they have we may be in business frown
With this dealer? I know the sales manager for the Bolton branch.

Butter Face

24,598 posts

127 months

Friday 22nd May 2020
quotequote all
jamoor said:
Yes I have, the servicing is that minimal on EVs to the point that an MOT will suffice.

Let me make this clear, I am not saying that Retail stores will disappear, I am saying that the days of a Franchised dealership business model are numbered. They are being told how much they can make, and the servicing for sure will be the same. With more EVs I am fairly sure that companies will compete on servicing costs for EVs.

This is merely a stepping stone to that eventuality.

In addition will salesmen still get commissions ?


Edited by jamoor on Friday 22 May 00:57
It’s irrelevant how much servicing they require, if they require servicing to meet a manufacturer warranty then they will need to go to a dealer, all EV have systems and electronics that are well above the scope of most aftermarket servicing centres and as so they require specific equipment that will only be owned by dealers.

Franchises aren’t going anywhere, most manufacturers don’t really want to own and run 200+ ‘stores’ for minimal profits and all the liabilities that go with that.

You have a strang obsession with this fixed price thing like it’s new, you realise now that manufacturers already tell dealers what they’ll get paid for new cars? Set margins and targets and control the whole new car process? There’s nothing new here, TBH most dealers would welcome a fixed price system, there’d be less in fighting over giving away small % to save a customer from buying 200 miles away via carwow. If all dealers had the same deals and pricing structure, where’s the loss for them?

I don’t see why a salesman wouldn’t get commission for these online sales, behind the scenes they’ll be the one pulling everything together, as now we don’t do all the ordering ourselves, don’t clean or PDI the cars ourselves but we do have to orchestrate the process as they would continue to do so.

Next!

mfmman

1,052 posts

150 months

Friday 22nd May 2020
quotequote all
Blakewater said:
mfmman said:
Butter Face said:
Yes but with a bit less drama. Cars cleaned, sanitised and parked in handover area 2 days before collection. Meet customer outside, keys are on the windscreen in a bag. Wave goodbye!

We’ve sent some handover videos for people who have needed them but most people are keys and go!
All looks easy and sensible enough, now if only the BMW dealer would respond to the enquiry I made on Monday about a used car they have we may be in business frown
With this dealer? I know the sales manager for the Bolton branch.
No sorry, a different one. I didn't name it for fear of being told off by the mods

Throttlebody

837 posts

21 months

Friday 22nd May 2020
quotequote all
jamoor said:
https://www.engadget.com/volkswagen-will-only-sell...

Gosh I love being right.

Manufacturers are removing the autonomy of dealerships, I wonder when dealerships will cotton onto the fact that they aren't needed hehe
Seems to be the way things are developing. More Click and Collect, more flexibility and smooths the buying process by cutting out the traditional salesmen’s role.

WAVman

181 posts

31 months

Friday 22nd May 2020
quotequote all
jamoor said:
https://www.engadget.com/volkswagen-will-only-sell...

Gosh I love being right.

Manufacturers are removing the autonomy of dealerships, I wonder when dealerships will cotton onto the fact that they aren't needed hehe
One manufacturer is direct selling one model!

jamoor

14,506 posts

182 months

Friday 22nd May 2020
quotequote all
Butter Face said:
jamoor said:
Yes I have, the servicing is that minimal on EVs to the point that an MOT will suffice.

Let me make this clear, I am not saying that Retail stores will disappear, I am saying that the days of a Franchised dealership business model are numbered. They are being told how much they can make, and the servicing for sure will be the same. With more EVs I am fairly sure that companies will compete on servicing costs for EVs.

This is merely a stepping stone to that eventuality.

In addition will salesmen still get commissions ?


Edited by jamoor on Friday 22 May 00:57
It’s irrelevant how much servicing they require, if they require servicing to meet a manufacturer warranty then they will need to go to a dealer, all EV have systems and electronics that are well above the scope of most aftermarket servicing centres and as so they require specific equipment that will only be owned by dealers.

Franchises aren’t going anywhere, most manufacturers don’t really want to own and run 200+ ‘stores’ for minimal profits and all the liabilities that go with that.

You have a strang obsession with this fixed price thing like it’s new, you realise now that manufacturers already tell dealers what they’ll get paid for new cars? Set margins and targets and control the whole new car process? There’s nothing new here, TBH most dealers would welcome a fixed price system, there’d be less in fighting over giving away small % to save a customer from buying 200 miles away via carwow. If all dealers had the same deals and pricing structure, where’s the loss for them?

I don’t see why a salesman wouldn’t get commission for these online sales, behind the scenes they’ll be the one pulling everything together, as now we don’t do all the ordering ourselves, don’t clean or PDI the cars ourselves but we do have to orchestrate the process as they would continue to do so.

Next!
You realise an ev with less servicing, no timing belts, oil changes, spark plugs, more brakes, etc etc means less money through the dealership on after sales right? And after sales is where they make the most profit.
Where do you think the shortfall will come from?


jamoor

14,506 posts

182 months

Friday 22nd May 2020
quotequote all
WAVman said:
jamoor said:
https://www.engadget.com/volkswagen-will-only-sell...

Gosh I love being right.

Manufacturers are removing the autonomy of dealerships, I wonder when dealerships will cotton onto the fact that they aren't needed hehe
One manufacturer is direct selling one model!
The worlds biggest/second biggest!

Limpet

4,755 posts

128 months

Friday 22nd May 2020
quotequote all
Butter Face said:
It’s irrelevant how much servicing they require, if they require servicing to meet a manufacturer warranty then they will need to go to a dealer, all EV have systems and electronics that are well above the scope of most aftermarket servicing centres and as so they require specific equipment that will only be owned by dealers.
All of those systems and electronics are maintenance free and designed to last the life of the vehicle. The only possible non-failure related thing you could need a dealer for with regard to these is a software update, and if it's the same as on an IC car, this is free (to the customer) during the warranty period. In any case, given that Tesla do this over-the-air, it would be pretty primitive for any other manufacturer to force a customer into a dealer workshop for this.

The only routine maintenance any EV will need, certainly in its first three years, is a replacement of the cabin filter, tyres, a brake fluid change, and perhaps wiper blades or the odd bulb, all of which are entirely conventional setups that any garage can deal with. As the cars age, you'll have the usual bushes, bearings, pads, discs, shocks etc, but again these are all the same as on an IC car, and can be done anywhere. Also pads and discs tend to last a long time on EVs as the regen takes care of much of the braking effort. I was talking to a Tesla owner from the States last year, who had just had his first set of pads replaced on his model S at 120,000 miles.

Failure of any of the EV specific components (motors, control units etc) will, as you say, require dealer level skills and kit, but this is not routine maintenance, and will not provide anything like the throughput of vehicles that dealer workshops see today. And as EV takeup increases, the aftermarket will also adapt its offering to provide a greater breadth of EV focused services.

EVs don't mean the end of dealerships, but they will require a significant change in business model as the IC fleet starts to dwindle. It is difficult to envisage a big, fully staffed 4+ bay dealer workshop being profitable in 20 years time.


Edited by Limpet on Friday 22 May 10:49

jamoor

14,506 posts

182 months

Friday 22nd May 2020
quotequote all
Limpet said:
Butter Face said:
It’s irrelevant how much servicing they require, if they require servicing to meet a manufacturer warranty then they will need to go to a dealer, all EV have systems and electronics that are well above the scope of most aftermarket servicing centres and as so they require specific equipment that will only be owned by dealers.
All of those systems and electronics are maintenance free and designed to last the life of the vehicle. The only possible non-failure related thing you could need a dealer for with regard to these is a software update, and if it's the same as on an IC car, this is free (to the customer) during the warranty period. In any case, given that Tesla do this over-the-air, it would be pretty primitive for any other manufacturer to force a customer into a dealer workshop for this.

The only routine maintenance any EV will need, certainly in its first three years, is a replacement of the cabin filter, tyres, a brake fluid change, and perhaps wiper blades or the odd bulb, all of which are entirely conventional setups that any garage can deal with. As the cars age, you'll have the usual bushes, bearings, pads, discs, shocks etc, but again these are all the same as on an IC car, and can be done anywhere. Also pads and discs tend to last a long time on EVs as the regen takes care of much of the braking effort. I was talking to a Tesla owner from the States last year, who had just had his first set of pads replaced on his model S at 120,000 miles.

Failure of any of the EV specific components (motors, control units etc) will, as you say, require dealer level skills and kit, but this is not routine maintenance, and will not provide anything like the throughput of vehicles that dealer workshops see today. And as EV takeup increases, the aftermarket will also adapt its offering to provide a greater breadth of EV focused services.

EVs don't mean the end of dealerships, but they will require a significant change in business model as the IC fleet starts to dwindle. It is difficult to envisage a big, fully staffed 4+ bay dealer workshop being profitable in 20 years time.


Edited by Limpet on Friday 22 May 10:49
Re routine maintenance, really does vary from car to car.

Are o2 sensors on an ICE consumables? Or how about a squeaky fan belt or an exhaust? Or a failed alternator?

These are routine repairs that are done to cars that are undertaken without batting a eyelid. In the future a dealership will see none of these.

Fast Bug

9,485 posts

128 months

Friday 22nd May 2020
quotequote all
I can’t remember the last time we had to change an exhaust on one of our cars? Don’t forget it wasn’t all that long ago cars were services every 8k or so and now we’re on long life services or every 2 years. Dealerships haven’t gone bust due to the reduced workshop incomes during that time.

Wooda80

1,743 posts

42 months

Friday 22nd May 2020
quotequote all
If electric cars require so little maintenance then why are manufacturers investing so much money in technician training and new workshop equipment and infrastructure for the ev model range?

stevemcs

5,730 posts

60 months

Friday 22nd May 2020
quotequote all
I do think EV's need less servicing, they don't seem to wear much out and there are less bits to go wrong. I guess the possibility's that when they do go wrong it will be more expensive to fix but thats about it. Then again most EV's don't get the hammering a ICE gets, time will tell but I don't expect them to keep service departments in profit, a service on a EV shouldn't be more than £100 imo