Alpine A110 to be axed?

Alpine A110 to be axed?

Author
Discussion

Miserablegit

1,514 posts

63 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
kambites said:
You seem to be arguing that the Alpine should cost less than the market average for all cars because "it's just a toy". To my mind that's ridiculous because "toy" type cars always have been and always will be considerably more expensive than mass-produced family transport.

As far as I can see, for what it is the Alpine is extremely well priced.
I honestly don’t see how you can have got that from my posts at all. I think the Alpine is very good value.




kambites

58,490 posts

175 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
Miserablegit said:
I honestly don’t see how you can have got that from my posts at all. I think the Alpine is very good value.
Sorry I thought you were objecting to it being called "affordable". My point was that for a normal car it would be pretty affordable. Not cheap, but certianly not expensive either; for a toy it's extremely affordable.

tarquin274

3 posts

2 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
Sorry to hear, I hope they don't go ahead and axe it. I guess, perhaps non-"premium" brands don't seem to have much luck.

It is quite interesting to compare to another French sports coupe experiment, the Peugeot RCZ. Although this model lasted six years and it didn't have Covid19 to contend with, I think what the Peugeot boss, Maxime Picat said at the end is perhaps rather telling:

"... while he loves the RCZ, it is not selling in anything like the numbers required to turn a profit. Thus, as part of the marque's big model cull that will see the current line-up of 26 vehicles slashed to just the 13 most lucrative by 2022, the RCZ will be quietly killed off."

While my heart hopes the Alpine won't meet a similar fate, in my head I think it will have to be very lucky indeed to avoid a cull.

Miserablegit

1,514 posts

63 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
You can’t say sorry on an Internet forum. We have to argue for days. beer
Point I was making, perhaps badly, is the average car bought for £35k will be a family car so it’s not really comparing like with like to suggest those owners could buy a 2 seater instead even if it’s only 15k more.

I was saying the more likely comparison is with other 2 seaters with a focus on mx5 sales and the like where the difference is 25k+ more. I hadn’t run any numbers but anticipated that the sales of 2 seaters was probably weighted more towards the Mx5 end of the market and so a weighted average price of 2 seaters for comparison would be nearer the price of the Mx5.




kambites

58,490 posts

175 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
Miserablegit said:
I was saying the more likely comparison is with other 2 seaters with a focus on mx5 sales and the like where the difference is 25k+ more. I hadn’t run any numbers but anticipated that the sales of 2 seaters was probably weighted more towards the Mx5 end of the market and so a weighted average price of 2 seaters for comparison would be nearer the price of the Mx5
Less than you'd think I think (if that makes sense). In 2019 Mazda sold 13803 MX5s acrodd Europe. Porsche sold 7300 718s. Audi sold 11000 TTs... Mercedes sold 4000 SLCs,... so yes the MX5 is probably the best selling "sports car" but it's still very much a minority of the sports car market and almost everything else is more at Alpine price levels or above.

Lets not forget the most popular 4-seater is the Fiesta, which is considerably cheaper than the MX5!

ETA: In fact porsche apparently sold 16000 911s in 2019, so more 911s were sold in Europe than MX5s last year!


Edited by kambites on Friday 22 May 13:29

Miserablegit

1,514 posts

63 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
tarquin274 said:
Sorry to hear, I hope they don't go ahead and axe it. I guess, perhaps non-"premium" brands don't seem to have much luck.

It is quite interesting to compare to another French sports coupe experiment, the Peugeot RCZ. Although this model lasted six years and it didn't have Covid19 to contend with, I think what the Peugeot boss, Maxime Picat said at the end is perhaps rather telling:

"... while he loves the RCZ, it is not selling in anything like the numbers required to turn a profit. Thus, as part of the marque's big model cull that will see the current line-up of 26 vehicles slashed to just the 13 most lucrative by 2022, the RCZ will be quietly killed off."

While my heart hopes the Alpine won't meet a similar fate, in my head I think it will have to be very lucky indeed to avoid a cull.
The RCZ was a very different vehicle.
Built on the 308 platform and intended for volume sales.
It was front engined and front wheel drive
There was a diesel option
I think that sums it up!
I agree the Alpine will have to be very lucky to avoid a cull if they are cost cutting but if they can make a profit on them then that all helps the group as a whole. 3000 cars =income of £150,000,000 but I don’t know what level of profit that is - might be less than 10million in which case it is probably far too insignificant per annum.



HighwayStar

2,747 posts

98 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
ToastMan76 said:
Can we forget all these ‘price’ ‘gearbox’ ‘convertible’ arguments and agree that the main thing wrong with the car is those weird nostril lights.
Seriously? You are requesting put aside my own thoughts and feelings on the subject and align with yours? Wow.
No! I love the Alpine. It’s not everyone’s cuppa and I respect that. I don’t like the MK2 R8 but I wouldn’t expect others to feel the same.

bcr5784

4,494 posts

99 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
Japan, Australia etc are also right hand drive markets
Yes, but bizarrely, the Japanese prefer LHD cars for their "kudos" (don't ask me, I don't get it either). So all the Alpines gone/going to Japan are LHD..

Regarding this brand image crap, I really don't get that either. There are almost no genuinely premium brands, a Lambo is an Audi in drag, most Audis share their running gear with vWs Seats and Skodas. How can you sensibly view an Audi as a better brand than a Skoda? Or a Porsche SUV as somehow on a different plane to the VW/Audi on which it's based. And if owning one impresses your neighbours more than one of the less premium siblings - more fool they. And Ferrari owned by FIAT - how low rent is that!

maz8062

572 posts

169 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
Fastdruid said:
Prestonese said:
Fastdruid said:
To be fair, there are quite a few cars on that list which are as expensive as the Alpine. For me, I wouldn't consider the TT, Z4, Mustang, 718 Cayman/Boxster or Supra.
Well quite, starting list prices for that list are

1) £46,900
2) £50,500
3) £46,651/£44,790
4) £51,384
5) £23,530
6) £25,769
7) £47,750
8) £44,640
9) £53,325
10) £43,685
This is interesting indeed. So it turns out that the Alpine is actually quite keenly priced - price is therefore not the issue. Is it poor marketing or a lack of consumer interest in the nostalgia attached to the A110? Who knows, but heaven knows this car has had the support of the motoring journalist community - they've loved it.

So what's the problem? I think and has been alluded to before, the issue is down to right car, wrong time. People are into SUV's, EV's and super quick hot hatches these days, and the 2 seaters 'sports car' segment is saturated with established names, such as Porsche, Audi, Jaguar, etc.

Pity.

bcr5784

4,494 posts

99 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
maz8062 said:
This is interesting indeed. So it turns out that the Alpine is actually quite keenly priced - price is therefore not the issue. Is it poor marketing or a lack of consumer interest in the nostalgia attached to the A110? Who knows, but heaven knows this car has had the support of the motoring journalist community - they've loved it.

So what's the problem? I think and has been alluded to before, the issue is down to right car, wrong time. People are into SUV's, EV's and super quick hot hatches these days, and the 2 seaters 'sports car' segment is saturated with established names, such as Porsche, Audi, Jaguar, etc.

Pity.
No, as I keep saying it's down to lack of dealers (only 7 in the UK), some of whom could be better, and badge snobbery on the part of some buyers who sneer at sharing a dealership with Dacias. (Doesn't fuss me - but Alpine were aware of it as an issue and in other countries insisted on an independent showroom). It's then come down to a chicken and egg situation - dealers were reluctant to invest in showrooms, so UK sales were modest, so dealers were reluctant ..... Many people would jib at 100-200 mile round trip to get their car serviced - and Renault dealers can't do it. There is no dealer at all in Northern Island or Wales.

Nostalgia played a big part in France, I have no doubt, but precious little here.


Edited by bcr5784 on Friday 22 May 15:16


Edited by bcr5784 on Friday 22 May 15:35

Kolbenkopp

2,227 posts

105 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
bcr5784 said:
No, as I keep saying it's down to lack of dealers (only 7 in the UK), some of whom could be better, and badge snobbery on the part of some buyers who sneer at sharing a dealership with Dacias. (
Yeah I think that plays a big part.

Further up in the thread there was a comment about the very low profile Alpine is keeping in Germany. Exactly my experience as well, they have some 10 Alpine centres in Germany (co located @ Renault dealers) but they don't really seem to be promoting the car much. So much so that I think it's down to being happy enough with German order book and not bother at this point.

The most obvious way to get bums into seats over here is to show up at the Nurburgring. Ideally have a centre nearby and offer regular test drives. We don't have as many track day venues so practically 100% of the audience shows up at the Ring once a year or so...



rockin

7,814 posts

199 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
Well, people won't buy the F-type either. It must be those slummy Jaguar dealerships that are putting them off.

bcr5784

4,494 posts

99 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
rockin said:
Well, people won't buy the F-type either. It must be those slummy Jaguar dealerships that are putting them off.
And your point is? The F-type is naff, it's marketing is naff, it's image is naff, it's overpriced? or what?

DonkeyApple

36,951 posts

123 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
springfan62 said:
DonkeyApple said:
The power of branding is so strong that it even creates the anti-brand which is the exact same type of person as the brand consumer, ie making a purchase based on the brand!!!!! wink

We are a consumer society and premium goods purchases require brand power and some consumer crave consuming the brand that other consumers don’t know, don’t like or are scared of. That’s still a premium consumer purchase decided on by branding. biggrin
Except not everyone is influenced positively or negatively by brand to the same degree, everyone has their own priorities in terms of brand, some will only buy a "prestige" brand so it limits their choice even if there are more suitable products.

I suspect most Alpine buyers were buying a car that delivered what they wanted rather than being overly influenced by brand and as demonstrated on here that some that would never consider an Alpine because its not a brand they value.

The fact the the lack of brand value appeals does not it any way mean a buying decision is made based on brands, it could be a very minor element in the overall decision( as it was in my case).
Yup. All seven people. Meanwhile because brand is so immensely important, everyone else bought based on brand. Even you said you would buy one because it had no brand, thus you yourself are having your purchases impacted by branding.

No one is immune from branding. That’s why it is so fundamentally important in selling goods that no one needs.

In the case of this car it’s branding failed to either inspire purchases by people wanting to be associated with a brand that everyone desires or in your case and probably mine, a brand that few people desire.

Branding always impacts on consumers of premium goods. One way or another.

rockin

7,814 posts

199 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
No one is immune from branding. That’s why it is so fundamentally important in selling goods that no one needs.
So why isn't the F-type selling?

Does the once illustrious Jaguar brand have no more appeal than a French shopping car at the Dacia showroom?

When I'm out on the roads the SUV world in which we live seems to be just as full of Jaguars as of all the other high riders in their Range Rovers, Macans or whatever.

whp1983

289 posts

93 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
You need way more marketing to sell it to casual people. Sure enthusiasts know about Alpine but who else?

How many Boxsters, 911s etc are owned by genuine car enthusiasts, my guess is there are a good chunk of people who want something nice to show off or a sporty car that is well known etc. That marketing and presence took years to build.

If Renault did wish to sell Alpines by bucket load they needed more than to appeal to just us lot!

DonkeyApple

36,951 posts

123 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
rockin said:
So why isn't the F-type selling?

Does the once illustrious Jaguar brand have no more appeal than a French shopping car at the Dacia showroom?

When I'm out on the roads the SUV world in which we live seems to be just as full of Jaguars as of all the other high riders in their Range Rovers, Macans or whatever.
Brand/image. If you’re going to have an impractical sports car then invariably you need to also buy a practical car. Not many people can rent both so they just rent the premium SUV o we the sports car.

The Alpine is a very good car it just isn’t desirable. Everyone who does want a sports car and can borrow £50k just buys a Boxster. That’s also a good car but has the advantage that everyone knows the word Porsche and that they cost money.

blueg33

23,593 posts

178 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
springfan62 said:
DonkeyApple said:
The power of branding is so strong that it even creates the anti-brand which is the exact same type of person as the brand consumer, ie making a purchase based on the brand!!!!! wink

We are a consumer society and premium goods purchases require brand power and some consumer crave consuming the brand that other consumers don’t know, don’t like or are scared of. That’s still a premium consumer purchase decided on by branding. biggrin
Except not everyone is influenced positively or negatively by brand to the same degree, everyone has their own priorities in terms of brand, some will only buy a "prestige" brand so it limits their choice even if there are more suitable products.

I suspect most Alpine buyers were buying a car that delivered what they wanted rather than being overly influenced by brand and as demonstrated on here that some that would never consider an Alpine because its not a brand they value.

The fact the the lack of brand value appeals does not it any way mean a buying decision is made based on brands, it could be a very minor element in the overall decision( as it was in my case).
Yup. All seven people. Meanwhile because brand is so immensely important, everyone else bought based on brand. Even you said you would buy one because it had no brand, thus you yourself are having your purchases impacted by branding.

No one is immune from branding. That’s why it is so fundamentally important in selling goods that no one needs.

In the case of this car it’s branding failed to either inspire purchases by people wanting to be associated with a brand that everyone desires or in your case and probably mine, a brand that few people desire.

Branding always impacts on consumers of premium goods. One way or another.
Branding is nothing without marketing. The Alpine is pretty low profile in the UK

Horace Van Khute

561 posts

8 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
SpeckledJim said:
No expensive watches are as good as your timex at telling the time.

All expensive watch owners ignore that bit.
All ignorant noobs like to repeat that bit.

bcr5784

4,494 posts

99 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
Horace Van Khute said:
All ignorant noobs like to repeat that bit.


True though. I like a nice piece of engineering as much (perhaps more) than the next man - and some expensive watches are superb pieces of engineering - but I don't want to drive a tank, or wear a boat anchor on my wrist, however well engineered.