Alpine A110 to be axed?

Alpine A110 to be axed?

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Discussion

unsprung

4,464 posts

77 months

Friday 22nd May
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blueg33 said:
Branding is nothing without marketing. The Alpine is pretty low profile in the UK
+1

The Alpine go-to-market strategy appears to have no outreach among influencers and communities, no learn-and-drive programmes, and a rather passive sales funnel.

See, for example, my German mate's experience in shopping the A110 in Germany (my post dated "Wednesday" in this thread).

Also: the licensing of production in Mexico, for export to the US and China, could have turned things up to 11. Just sayin'.



Horace Van Khute

560 posts

7 months

Friday 22nd May
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bcr5784 said:
Horace Van Khute said:
All ignorant noobs like to repeat that bit.


True though.
Tis not tho.

Kolbenkopp

2,227 posts

104 months

Saturday 23rd May
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Blakewater said:
The experiences of other countries suggests a resurgence of the car market as people afraid of the virus shun public transport and the trend of Uber and other ride sharing apps.
I like the optimism, but all of the people potentially in the market for an Alpine already have at least one car. Demand will not come from people switching from public to personal transport. Think "all inclusive" rental models stand a good chance of getting that share of the market (if priced sensibly).

Blakewater

3,486 posts

110 months

Saturday 23rd May
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Kolbenkopp said:
Blakewater said:
The experiences of other countries suggests a resurgence of the car market as people afraid of the virus shun public transport and the trend of Uber and other ride sharing apps.
I like the optimism, but all of the people potentially in the market for an Alpine already have at least one car. Demand will not come from people switching from public to personal transport. Think "all inclusive" rental models stand a good chance of getting that share of the market (if priced sensibly).
It won't help the Alpine directly. Young people who previously used Uber or the bus won't rush out and buy one. But people are doom mongering about car manufacturers in general. It's sales of stuff like Clios and Capturs that allow a company such as Renault to invest in something like Alpine and if a rush for private, personal transport at the more mundane end of the car market gives it a boost it'll help the halo cars.

When someone mentioned Vauxhall disappearing, plenty of people will be rushing out to buy Corsas on cheap finance with free insurance if the market indications are anything to go by.

DonkeyApple

36,951 posts

122 months

Saturday 23rd May
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Kolbenkopp said:
Blakewater said:
The experiences of other countries suggests a resurgence of the car market as people afraid of the virus shun public transport and the trend of Uber and other ride sharing apps.
I like the optimism, but all of the people potentially in the market for an Alpine already have at least one car. Demand will not come from people switching from public to personal transport. Think "all inclusive" rental models stand a good chance of getting that share of the market (if priced sensibly).
Nor from over 60s unable to go on cruises, flights abroad or Michelin lunches as they can’t get back out of such a car and it lacks the full pensioner life support systems like pile warmers, neck warmers and Stanna seats.

I think they’re brilliant cars but it is of no surprise that they haven’t sold in the UK. They aren’t bling and nor are they mobile life support systems so the two core UK premium demographics, the debt monkey and the pensioner aren’t going to have a pop at it. Which is a tremendous shame but is hardly a surprise. The key precise demographic who would be interested are focussed on mortgages and raising children.

blueg33

23,590 posts

177 months

Saturday 23rd May
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DonkeyApple said:
Kolbenkopp said:
Blakewater said:
The experiences of other countries suggests a resurgence of the car market as people afraid of the virus shun public transport and the trend of Uber and other ride sharing apps.
I like the optimism, but all of the people potentially in the market for an Alpine already have at least one car. Demand will not come from people switching from public to personal transport. Think "all inclusive" rental models stand a good chance of getting that share of the market (if priced sensibly).
Nor from over 60s unable to go on cruises, flights abroad or Michelin lunches as they can’t get back out of such a car and it lacks the full pensioner life support systems like pile warmers, neck warmers and Stanna seats.

I think they’re brilliant cars but it is of no surprise that they haven’t sold in the UK. They aren’t bling and nor are they mobile life support systems so the two core UK premium demographics, the debt monkey and the pensioner aren’t going to have a pop at it. Which is a tremendous shame but is hardly a surprise. The key precise demographic who would be interested are focussed on mortgages and raising children.
Most of those comments except for the bling, apply to every car in this segment.

The market niche for 2 seat driver focused cars is tiny anyway, economic distress makes it smaller still. That’s not specific to Alpine. As this thread seems to show their issue in comparison with their peers is wrong badge and a weird attitude that because it’s not a Porsche or an Audi that it’s over priced.

Pommy

10,726 posts

169 months

Saturday 23rd May
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This reminds me on 94/95 L and M plate cars. There were a lot less sports and performance car sales through this period and was a time a lot of desirable cars from these 2 years seem rarer than 96 to 00.


springfan62

452 posts

29 months

Saturday 23rd May
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DonkeyApple said:
Yup. All seven people. Meanwhile because brand is so immensely important, everyone else bought based on brand. Even you said you would buy one because it had no brand, thus you yourself are having your purchases impacted by branding.

No one is immune from branding. That’s why it is so fundamentally important in selling goods that no one needs.

In the case of this car it’s branding failed to either inspire purchases by people wanting to be associated with a brand that everyone desires or in your case and probably mine, a brand that few people desire.

Branding always impacts on consumers of premium goods. One way or another.
Branding is how people differentiate products that are essentially the same, but if you are not looking for a 2 door lightweight coupe, branding is irrelevant.

The problem Alpine has is that its entered a market that is in decline, Porsche have said the current Cayman is the last, the R8 is for the chop, the 4c has gone, Aston are in trouble, Mclaren are too, the F type isn't selling. The change in road use is behind it, why sit in a cramped coupe when you can have a big SUV thats just as fast in a straight line. The sector is a niche sector and few people would have an Alpine as an only car,I wouldn't.





bcr5784

4,494 posts

98 months

Saturday 23rd May
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DonkeyApple said:
Branding always impacts on consumers of premium goods. One way or another.
Can't speak for anyone else, but in the car market where I can make a factually based judgement of the car, branding has no effect on me whatsoever. Sure it may affect residuals, and a brand may have a good or bad reputation for reliability - but it will be those things that might influence me not the brand as such. In the case where I have no information to go on then I might think a known brand is a safer bet. In the case of cars that's never been the case for me.

cerb4.5lee

14,761 posts

133 months

Saturday 23rd May
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springfan62 said:
DonkeyApple said:
Yup. All seven people. Meanwhile because brand is so immensely important, everyone else bought based on brand. Even you said you would buy one because it had no brand, thus you yourself are having your purchases impacted by branding.

No one is immune from branding. That’s why it is so fundamentally important in selling goods that no one needs.

In the case of this car it’s branding failed to either inspire purchases by people wanting to be associated with a brand that everyone desires or in your case and probably mine, a brand that few people desire.

Branding always impacts on consumers of premium goods. One way or another.
Branding is how people differentiate products that are essentially the same, but if you are not looking for a 2 door lightweight coupe, branding is irrelevant.

The problem Alpine has is that its entered a market that is in decline, Porsche have said the current Cayman is the last, the R8 is for the chop, the 4c has gone, Aston are in trouble, Mclaren are too, the F type isn't selling. The change in road use is behind it, why sit in a cramped coupe when you can have a big SUV thats just as fast in a straight line. The sector is a niche sector and few people would have an Alpine as an only car,I wouldn't.
You could also say that £50k is a fair chunk of money to only get a 1.8 litre engine in return, although I don't have any issue with its performance though.

Miserablegit

1,514 posts

62 months

Saturday 23rd May
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cerb4.5lee said:
You could also say that £50k is a fair chunk of money to only get a 1.8 litre engine in return, although I don't have any issue with its performance though.
I must admit that was my initial reaction to the 4C. “Who is going to spend £50k on a 4 pot 1750”
Then when I looked at the market more closely I realised that was where the market actually was - £50k sportscars come with 4 cylinders as the rest of the money is spent on the bespoke chassis/ body etc. Once I got over that hurdle I understood them more but that only happened because I was a genuine buyer and had looked into it with a view to buying.


bcr5784

4,494 posts

98 months

Saturday 23rd May
quotequote all
cerb4.5lee said:
You could also say that £50k is a fair chunk of money to only get a 1.8 litre engine in return, although I don't have any issue with its performance though.
As Alpine said it's not about power it's about weight. 250bhp is perfectly adequate in an 1100kg car. Gordon Murrays proposed T43 (not T50) has only only a 1.5 litre 3 pot with 220bhp - but given that the projected weight is 850kg I'm sure that will be more than adequate (And I very much doubt you will get much change out of £50k if it every gets built). And 150bhp in a Caterham weighing around 550kg is plenty.

DonkeyApple

36,951 posts

122 months

Saturday 23rd May
quotequote all
springfan62 said:
Branding is how people differentiate products that are essentially the same, but if you are not looking for a 2 door lightweight coupe, branding is irrelevant.

The problem Alpine has is that its entered a market that is in decline, Porsche have said the current Cayman is the last, the R8 is for the chop, the 4c has gone, Aston are in trouble, Mclaren are too, the F type isn't selling. The change in road use is behind it, why sit in a cramped coupe when you can have a big SUV thats just as fast in a straight line. The sector is a niche sector and few people would have an Alpine as an only car,I wouldn't.
And yet if it had an Aston badge and was just £50k it would have sold bucket loads as huge numbers of blokes would have borrowed money to be associated with the AM brand on the back of a 50% bargain price tag.

Brand. It’s a £50k toy. That means someone has to borrow £40-£50k and people aren’t going to do that for a Renault or a sub brand that absolutely no one on the street knows is expensive. That sort of consumer isn’t going to rent something that when they rock up most people think it’s a kit car.

The UK premium consumer market is built on debt monkeys, brand wes and punters who make decisions via the number on the price tag. No one is going to buy a product that is the same price as a Porsche but isn’t a Porsche unless the company trying to sell it has educated the wider market that it is superior to a Porsche and that the users of this product are superior, wealthier and smarter than those who rent things with Porsche badges on them.

The Alpine has the exact same problem as Lotus. They are cars for people who like cars and who want cars that give them pleasure through how they feel, sound and look to you but don’t place much value on what other people think it says about them. It’s that latter element that drives nearly all premium goods sales. It’s why premium consumers flock to brands that everyone else knows are expensive. Just look at man bangles. Twenty years ago you could wear an AP and no one would know what it was but then the company invested a lot of time and money in educating the onlooker as to how expensive the brand was and suddenly it wasn’t just Rolexes that premium shoppers wanted.

You’re not going to give young boys boners rocking up in an Alpine. You’re not going to impress anyone at the bar saying you drive an Alpine. You’re not going to turn up at work and have your colleagues think you’re the man when you drive an Alpine. You buy a Porsche for that or any of the products that meet those critical criteria like Tesla.

If Renault had plastered the Alpine over social media and associated it with true life winners like people from Love Island, footballers or people with faces in anaphylactic shock and gone to the effort of explaining that this was a seriously expensive product that made you a better person then they would have sold more.


cerb4.5lee

14,761 posts

133 months

Saturday 23rd May
quotequote all
Miserablegit said:
cerb4.5lee said:
You could also say that £50k is a fair chunk of money to only get a 1.8 litre engine in return, although I don't have any issue with its performance though.
I must admit that was my initial reaction to the 4C. “Who is going to spend £50k on a 4 pot 1750”
Then when I looked at the market more closely I realised that was where the market actually was - £50k sportscars come with 4 cylinders as the rest of the money is spent on the bespoke chassis/ body etc. Once I got over that hurdle I understood them more but that only happened because I was a genuine buyer and had looked into it with a view to buying.
It wouldn't put me off buying either to be fair(I really like the small 2 litre engine in my Mini). I was just thinking that it could've played a part in their demise, especially when compared to some of the bigger engined sports cars on the market.

cerb4.5lee

14,761 posts

133 months

Saturday 23rd May
quotequote all
bcr5784 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
You could also say that £50k is a fair chunk of money to only get a 1.8 litre engine in return, although I don't have any issue with its performance though.
As Alpine said it's not about power it's about weight. 250bhp is perfectly adequate in an 1100kg car. Gordon Murrays proposed T43 (not T50) has only only a 1.5 litre 3 pot with 220bhp - but given that the projected weight is 850kg I'm sure that will be more than adequate (And I very much doubt you will get much change out of £50k if it every gets built). And 150bhp in a Caterham weighing around 550kg is plenty.
Yes and I don't have a problem with the power or the performance. I was just thinking that £50k is pretty expensive for only a 4 cylinder engine that's all. I've driven a 140bhp Caterham and that felt plenty quick enough for sure.

cerb4.5lee

14,761 posts

133 months

Saturday 23rd May
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
You’re not going to give young boys boners rocking up in an Alpine. You’re not going to impress anyone at the bar saying you drive an Alpine. You’re not going to turn up at work and have your colleagues think you’re the man when you drive an Alpine. You buy a Porsche for that or any of the products that meet those critical criteria like Tesla.

If Renault had plastered the Alpine over social media and associated it with true life winners like people from Love Island, footballers or people with faces in anaphylactic shock and gone to the effort of explaining that this was a seriously expensive product that made you a better person then they would have sold more.
You never fail to make me smile DA! thumbup

cerb4.5lee

14,761 posts

133 months

Saturday 23rd May
quotequote all
One of my old bosses had an Alpine A610 and I thought that it was seriously cool(I've always been into cars and I loved it when it came out and still do, so I knew what it was), but the rest of my colleagues didn't know what it was or had ever heard of it. I do also appreciate rare cars as well, so I really like the A110 for that too.

Evercross

1,619 posts

17 months

Saturday 23rd May
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CABC said:
and a Rolex is an entry level premium watch, a bit Mercedes wink
Most people when they see someone wearing a Roles think 'fake', regardless of who is wearing it. The term 'fake Rolex' is ingrained in modern culture.

DonkeyApple

36,951 posts

122 months

Saturday 23rd May
quotequote all
cerb4.5lee said:
One of my old bosses had an Alpine A610 and I thought that it was seriously cool(I've always been into cars and I loved it when it came out and still do, so I knew what it was), but the rest of my colleagues didn't know what it was or had ever heard of it. I do also appreciate rare cars as well, so I really like the A110 for that too.
I nearly bought one of those. Two things put me off in the end. The first was that it appeared on a TV show in the hands of a tarmac drive specialist and the second was that when I sat in one at the showroom it was like being in front of the sttest, generic discount 80s stereo unit in Dixons. It was made of the hideous plastic that was in my mother’s R5 GTS. That was no problem in an over engined, cheap French hatchback but the Alpine was not cheap French hatchback prices. You were being asked to pay big money for something with the interior of a poundshop, the engine out of an executive minicab and an image associated with a greased up tarmac vendor.

DoubleD

12,172 posts

61 months

Saturday 23rd May
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cerb4.5lee said:
DonkeyApple said:
You’re not going to give young boys boners rocking up in an Alpine. You’re not going to impress anyone at the bar saying you drive an Alpine. You’re not going to turn up at work and have your colleagues think you’re the man when you drive an Alpine. You buy a Porsche for that or any of the products that meet those critical criteria like Tesla.

If Renault had plastered the Alpine over social media and associated it with true life winners like people from Love Island, footballers or people with faces in anaphylactic shock and gone to the effort of explaining that this was a seriously expensive product that made you a better person then they would have sold more.
You never fail to make me smile DA! thumbup
It is funny. I wonder if he could have sneaked in a few more cliches?