Why can nobody overtake?

[Evil.soup]

kiethton said:

We used to drive to Croatia/Brac fairly regularly and some of the best overtaking spots were when the road followed an inlet/bay - full view own to the right corner at the bottom of the bay and back out the other side. Example of the road just outside Bol below

Bet that is fun!

[911hope]

Evil.soup said:

"If people often find that people are enraged by their overtakes, then it is possible that there is a reason."

Usually no other reason other than the fact they don't like or want to be overtaken.

Point in case, driving to work earlier this week I was stuck behind someone doing the usual 40 in a 60 in their 1.2 Corsa. I knew there was a short 2 lane section coming up with a set of traffic lights, so I didn't attempt an overtake.

I take the right lane at the lights that merges into a single 30 zone then opens back to a 60. I pull off in a sensible manner, not exactly like I was at the drag strip, but the guy in the Corsa clearly took offence and tried to accelerate and cut me up. I dabbed the throttle and got in front and drove at the 30 speed limit. Angry Corsa guy was now 2 inches off my bumper like I had just committed a carnal sin and he had to prove a point. Come the 60 zone I drove at 60 and he remained at 40 and fell out of sight.

My point is, it seems people need no excuse to get enraged other than the fact someone dared to pass them, certainly you must have experienced this at some point?

The question is that if people experience angry reactions from others on a regular basis, then what is the common denominator?

[MustangGT]

911hope said:

The question is that if people experience angry reactions from others on a regular basis, then what is the common denominator?

Simple, the downwards spiral of the level of driving competency in the UK (and other countries). Some years ago I overtook a car on a long straight. Did not exceed the speed limit, was back on 'my' side of the road about 500m before a car in the opposite direction. Some seconds later, when much closer, they commenced wild gesticulations and headlamp flashing. No hidden hazard anywhere to be seen.

[Evil.soup]

MustangGT said:

911hope said:

The question is that if people experience angry reactions from others on a regular basis, then what is the common denominator?

Simple, the downwards spiral of the level of driving competency in the UK (and other countries). Some years ago I overtook a car on a long straight. Did not exceed the speed limit, was back on 'my' side of the road about 500m before a car in the opposite direction. Some seconds later, when much closer, they commenced wild gesticulations and headlamp flashing. No hidden hazard anywhere to be seen.

The common denominator would be the act of overtaking as I am certainly not the only person to experience angry reactions for a simple and safe pass.

911, am I right in guessing you either don't pass anyone or just don't pay attention if you do pass, since you seem to be suggesting you have not experienced behaviour such as that outlined above? Or, is it simply a matter of being antagonistic on a forum...

[Liamst]

Because overtaking is dangerous, unruly yob behaviour.
If the car at the front wants to do 35 in an NSL you wait your turn. Stop pushing in and endangering everyone you lunatic.

This is why you must also flash your lights at anyone who dares overtake you.

And stop at every empty roundabout, just in case.

[Mr Tidy]

Liamst said:

Because overtaking is dangerous, unruly yob behaviour.
If the car at the front wants to do 35 in an NSL you wait your turn. Stop pushing in and endangering everyone you lunatic.

This is why you must also flash your lights at anyone who dares overtake you.

And stop at every empty roundabout, just in case.

I must be an unruly yob as I did 65 on some Motorways last weekend and overtook some cars - it was so exhilarating!

Then I overtook some cyclists on NSL roads at 45 which was even more exciting.

I also stopped behind other cars that were stationary at empty roundabouts and watched them pull out just in front of other traffic as soon as it approached.

Numbers quoted may be slightly under-stated!

[mac96]

MustangGT said:

911hope said:

The question is that if people experience angry reactions from others on a regular basis, then what is the common denominator?

Simple, the downwards spiral of the level of driving competency in the UK (and other countries). Some years ago I overtook a car on a long straight. Did not exceed the speed limit, was back on 'my' side of the road about 500m before a car in the opposite direction. Some seconds later, when much closer, they commenced wild gesticulations and headlamp flashing. No hidden hazard anywhere to be seen.

Ah yes, but if your overtake is visible at all to an oncoming vehicle you are a raving maniac.

In reality, the safest overtakes are probably when an oncoming vehicle is in view for the whole of the overtake, as you can then judge its speed and it can see you and act accordingly, rather than approaching a bend while assuming nothing will come round it ludicrously fast.
I was caught out like that a few years ago in Wales, making what appeared to be a perfectly safe overtake on a longish straight when a vehicle appeared around the bend at a speed I suspect of being in excess of 100mph. Would have been fine still as I was heading back to the left when he appeared, but he tried to slow down and very nearly lost control through what looked to be lift off oversteer. Brown trouser moment all around.

[911hope]

Evil.soup said:

The common denominator would be the act of overtaking as I am certainly not the only person to experience angry reactions for a simple and safe pass.

911, am I right in guessing you either don't pass anyone or just don't pay attention if you do pass, since you seem to be suggesting you have not experienced behaviour such as that outlined above? Or, is it simply a matter of being antagonistic on a forum...

I overtake plenty when it is useful and safe and have never once seen an angry reaction.
I pull in well past the overtakee (can see them in central rear view mirror), so there is there is no impact on them and no perceived impact on them.

So what are others doing different?

There are plenty here who document their multi-car overtakes, there are plenty of those that demand that a line of traffic contains big gaps, so they can overtake and jump up the line.

This last behaviour seems to be the preserve of the "take all opportunities" cohort. When doing such an overtake, assuming there is a big enough gap the overtaker MUST overtake pull in and brake! What about that might seem dangerous to the overtakee?

There are even posts, where people claim they "make room to pull in"

So, again anyone who sees angry responses on a regular basis should consider if they are the cause.

The fact that lots of people report the angry responses means one of two things.

1. Lots of people provoke people.
2. Lots of people are just repeating the same stuff to conform to the group opinion.

[vikingaero]

Am I one of the few that appreciates a well executed overtake? I'll say "Well done Sir!". If Mrs V. is in the car she'll be disapproving of it.

[XF-Andy]

I love and appreciate a good overtake, either my own or another drivers.
Could those complaining of being flashed by the overtakee be misinterpreting the flash?
Lorries often (and I have in the past) flash the overtaker to let them know they are clear to pull back in. Could this possibly be what people are mistaking as anger??
Just my thoughts.

[Pan Pan Pan]

pointer7 said:

Deranged Rover said:

Driving home from work last night on my usual country B-road when I found myself behind a Zafira that was in turn behind a tractor doing 20mph or so. No worries, there's a straight coming up and, when we get to it, the entire length of it is clear - more than enough for about 5 or 6 of us to overtake if necessary but luckily, it was only the Zafira and me.

Well, Zafira indicates and pulls out - good stuff, i think, i shall follow suit. Except that said Zafira then proceeded to accelerate ferociously to about 22mph and take the entire length of the straight section to overtake - I quickly realised what was going on and had to pull back in behind the tractor. Zafira then proceeds to pootle along in front of the tractor and only ends up a hundred yards or so in front of it by the time we hit the traffic lights a few miles later.

Obviosuly it was a Zafira so my expectations of driving standards were pretty low, but even I didn't expect this!

I'd have expected the same as you, why would you not overtake as quickly as possible? you're temporarily on the wrong side of the road! people are too worried about their MPG these days rather than driving safely, you've got an engine bloody use it!

I remember EVO magazine did an article on overtaking, and they described time spent on the other side of the road during an overtake, as the TED. (Time Exposed to Danger) which they stated, should be kept absolutely as short as possible.
Perhaps the worst over takers are the `lazy' over takers, who having passed the vehicle in front of them, instead of pulling back into the nearside lane as quickly as possible, hang out on the other side of the road. Perhaps they do this to prevent others behind them, from also achieving the over take of the slower vehicle, that `they' have just over taken?

[Davie]

911hope said:

1. Lots of people provoke people.
2. Lots of people are just repeating the same stuff to conform to the group opinion.

Not really.

Thousands of us will overtake on a daily basis and most will go without any incident however there will be times where your move provokes such a response and to be honest, if 99 out of 100 times your overtake goes without a reactions, that 1 in 100 time where somebody gets angry is on them.

I overtook en route from Bath to Bristol airport a few years back, well sighted, no entrances or known dangers and I'd been running that road almost daily for two years. On this occassion there was a car travelling noticeably slowly so I was out, past and in. Drama free. Check the mirror and it was full beams and lots of tooting. Said car left their full beams on until I'd disappeared.

Next service station, I was in getting fuel and the car drew in and I initially thought "Here we go!" and an elderly gent got out. I politely said "Hi there, I overtook you... what was the problem?" and he completely ignored me. I went in, paid and as I was leaving the shop he cam e in, I opened and held the door and he acted like I didn't exist. I resisted all urges to get annoyed at his ignorance or to laugh at his behaviour and instead drove off, wondering if he was actually ok.

I'd honestly say in the past couple of years, I've not overtaken where I've thought "Oooft, that was a bit iffy" and I also do most my mileage and thus, overtakes in a fully branded van... therefore an easy target for complaints and which means 50mph where others can do 60mph, thus highlighting just how slow some drive lately and yet I've had quite a few headlight flashes or wker signs. And it's not a quick "flash" to acknowledge, it's proper angry stuff.

The common factor from what I've noted of late, is all have been older men...

[Evil.soup]

911hope said:

Evil.soup said:

The common denominator would be the act of overtaking as I am certainly not the only person to experience angry reactions for a simple and safe pass.

911, am I right in guessing you either don't pass anyone or just don't pay attention if you do pass, since you seem to be suggesting you have not experienced behaviour such as that outlined above? Or, is it simply a matter of being antagonistic on a forum...

I overtake plenty when it is useful and safe and have never once seen an angry reaction.
I pull in well past the overtakee (can see them in central rear view mirror), so there is there is no impact on them and no perceived impact on them.

So what are others doing different?

There are plenty here who document their multi-car overtakes, there are plenty of those that demand that a line of traffic contains big gaps, so they can overtake and jump up the line.

This last behaviour seems to be the preserve of the "take all opportunities" cohort. When doing such an overtake, assuming there is a big enough gap the overtaker MUST overtake pull in and brake! What about that might seem dangerous to the overtakee?

There are even posts, where people claim they "make room to pull in"

So, again anyone who sees angry responses on a regular basis should consider if they are the cause.

The fact that lots of people report the angry responses means one of two things.

1. Lots of people provoke people.
2. Lots of people are just repeating the same stuff to conform to the group opinion.

Granted, it isn't a response you may get at every overtake, but surely you must have had some kind of negative response when passing someone at some point in your life? If not, I am amazed, but accept what you say.

I tend not to overtake that often these days because most of my journeys are during rush hour, so it makes passing kind of a pointless act. Even so, often when I pass someone in a safe manner, I do genuinely get a reaction from a variety of drivers for what I would consider to be a completely unconceivable reason.

I also find that the reaction differs depending on the car I am driving. My daily is a Kia Ceed Estate, I still get negative reactions in that, but not like when I drive the WRX. I guess it's maybe the noise or simply the preconceived stereotype of someone that drives such a car that enrages people more. Ironically, the WRX is by far the safer car when it comes to overtaking and it is done quickly and safely.

[8IKERDAVE]

911hope said:

Evil.soup said:

The common denominator would be the act of overtaking as I am certainly not the only person to experience angry reactions for a simple and safe pass.

911, am I right in guessing you either don't pass anyone or just don't pay attention if you do pass, since you seem to be suggesting you have not experienced behaviour such as that outlined above? Or, is it simply a matter of being antagonistic on a forum...

I overtake plenty when it is useful and safe and have never once seen an angry reaction.
I pull in well past the overtakee (can see them in central rear view mirror), so there is there is no impact on them and no perceived impact on them.

So what are others doing different?

There are plenty here who document their multi-car overtakes, there are plenty of those that demand that a line of traffic contains big gaps, so they can overtake and jump up the line.

This last behaviour seems to be the preserve of the "take all opportunities" cohort. When doing such an overtake, assuming there is a big enough gap the overtaker MUST overtake pull in and brake! What about that might seem dangerous to the overtakee?

There are even posts, where people claim they "make room to pull in"

So, again anyone who sees angry responses on a regular basis should consider if they are the cause.

The fact that lots of people report the angry responses means one of two things.

1. Lots of people provoke people.
2. Lots of people are just repeating the same stuff to conform to the group opinion.

I find it hard to believe you've never encountered an angry overtakee. Maybe driving a 911 helps people expect you go past them. I notice that when out on the bike overtaking pretty much everything it seems to be expected and no one batters an eyelid. When I'm in the car (Audi S5) and overtake in a completely safe manor I can guarantee that 1 in 5 at least flash their headlights. My commute to and from work is mainly A roads that I've driven for years and know very well so I can hold a bit of pace on these (all within the law of course). Therefore I generally hold back when I know an opportunity is about to arise and nip past them with the right indicator on - still doesn't help! If you're sat on the arse of someone mile after mile and then eventually scream past and cut right in front of them then there's a point to be had but this is completely not me.

[trails]

911hope said:

I overtake plenty when it is useful and safe and have never once seen an angry reaction.
I pull in well past the overtakee (can see them in central rear view mirror), so there is there is no impact on them and no perceived impact on them.

So what are others doing different?

There are plenty here who document their multi-car overtakes, there are plenty of those that demand that a line of traffic contains big gaps, so they can overtake and jump up the line.

This last behaviour seems to be the preserve of the "take all opportunities" cohort. When doing such an overtake, assuming there is a big enough gap the overtaker MUST overtake pull in and brake! What about that might seem dangerous to the overtakee?

There are even posts, where people claim they "make room to pull in"

So, again anyone who sees angry responses on a regular basis should consider if they are the cause.

The fact that lots of people report the angry responses means one of two things.

1. Lots of people provoke people.
2. Lots of people are just repeating the same stuff to conform to the group opinion.

May I ask where you live?

Parrot accepted if this has already been posed

[911hope]

Davie said:

Not really.

Thousands of us will overtake on a daily basis and most will go without any incident however there will be times where your move provokes such a response and to be honest, if 99 out of 100 times your overtake goes without a reactions, that 1 in 100 time where somebody gets angry is on them.

I overtook en route from Bath to Bristol airport a few years back, well sighted, no entrances or known dangers and I'd been running that road almost daily for two years. On this occassion there was a car travelling noticeably slowly so I was out, past and in. Drama free. Check the mirror and it was full beams and lots of tooting. Said car left their full beams on until I'd disappeared.

Next service station, I was in getting fuel and the car drew in and I initially thought "Here we go!" and an elderly gent got out. I politely said "Hi there, I overtook you... what was the problem?" and he completely ignored me. I went in, paid and as I was leaving the shop he cam e in, I opened and held the door and he acted like I didn't exist. I resisted all urges to get annoyed at his ignorance or to laugh at his behaviour and instead drove off, wondering if he was actually ok.

I'd honestly say in the past couple of years, I've not overtaken where I've thought "Oooft, that was a bit iffy" and I also do most my mileage and thus, overtakes in a fully branded van... therefore an easy target for complaints and which means 50mph where others can do 60mph, thus highlighting just how slow some drive lately and yet I've had quite a few headlight flashes or wker signs. And it's not a quick "flash" to acknowledge, it's proper angry stuff.

The common factor from what I've noted of late, is all have been older men...

Are you saying the angry flashes are only a 1 in 100 event?

Not the impression given by most commenters.

[Gary C]

Surprised you can see where your going from that high horse.

[Davie]

911hope said:

Are you saying the angry flashes are only a 1 in 100 event?

Not the impression given by most commenters.

Not sure to be honest, I haven't kept an accurate record but certainly not a high frequency situation... maybe that's more reflective of where is stay compared to others. However, the number of overtakes witnessed day to day seems less, much more situations where overtakes are viable yet many seem willing to sit in a slow procession for miles. Most of the light flashing / gesturing I've witnessed has been from oncoming traffic but I've had a few characters flash in annoyance having been overtaken.

[ice729091]

I get the odd flashes when overtaking but I always think either they're trying to flash me after I've passed to say it's safe to pull back in (e.g. long trucks overtaking) or they are confused pensioners mixing up the headlight flasher with the wash wipe.

Either way I just continue on and overtake the next dawdler.

[Niponeoff]

Covid must have killed off a lot of gesticulators I think. Certainly happens less these days...