RE: 2020 Honda Civic Type R vs. Ford Focus ST

RE: 2020 Honda Civic Type R vs. Ford Focus ST

Author
Discussion

DoubleD

14,471 posts

66 months

Sunday 18th October
quotequote all
tommy1973s said:
2 seriously ugly cars. Imagine the flak if VW ever made anything as ugly as either of those ...
What VW do though is worse, there cars are bland and that is a bigger crime than ugly!

Galerion

64 posts

2 months

Sunday 18th October
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Elatino1 said:
Depite what they say, Ford will bring out an RS model in the last 2 years of its life cycle.
Cars with a high CO² output will now cost much more. Every model that raises your fleet average output will lead to heavy penalty payments to the EU.

That's why Toyota can actually afford to invest in sporty cars since they have invested and have been successful in lowering their fleet output for years.

Ford can't claim the same. Their output has actually risen over the last years.

StuntmanMike

9,310 posts

109 months

Sunday 18th October
quotequote all
DoubleD said:
tommy1973s said:
2 seriously ugly cars. Imagine the flak if VW ever made anything as ugly as either of those ...
What VW do though is worse, there cars are bland and that is a bigger crime than ugly!
They clone the previous model then inflate it and uglyfie it.

ajap1979

4,313 posts

145 months

Sunday 18th October
quotequote all
StuntmanMike said:
DoubleD said:
tommy1973s said:
2 seriously ugly cars. Imagine the flak if VW ever made anything as ugly as either of those ...
What VW do though is worse, there cars are bland and that is a bigger crime than ugly!
They clone the previous model then inflate it and uglyfie it.
Isn’t that exactly what Honda have done? The previous Civic Type R was smaller and better looking. The new one is bigger and uglier.

DoubleD

14,471 posts

66 months

Sunday 18th October
quotequote all
ajap1979 said:
StuntmanMike said:
DoubleD said:
tommy1973s said:
2 seriously ugly cars. Imagine the flak if VW ever made anything as ugly as either of those ...
What VW do though is worse, there cars are bland and that is a bigger crime than ugly!
They clone the previous model then inflate it and uglyfie it.
Isn’t that exactly what Honda have done? The previous Civic Type R was smaller and better looking. The new one is bigger and uglier.
The civic has changed a lot over time, the golf hasnt changed very much.

ajap1979

4,313 posts

145 months

Sunday 18th October
quotequote all
DoubleD said:
ajap1979 said:
StuntmanMike said:
DoubleD said:
tommy1973s said:
2 seriously ugly cars. Imagine the flak if VW ever made anything as ugly as either of those ...
What VW do though is worse, there cars are bland and that is a bigger crime than ugly!
They clone the previous model then inflate it and uglyfie it.
Isn’t that exactly what Honda have done? The previous Civic Type R was smaller and better looking. The new one is bigger and uglier.
The civic has changed a lot over time, the golf hasnt changed very much.
What a shame it hasn’t changed for the better. Mind you, how many cars are getting better looking these days?

rjfp1962

256 posts

31 months

Sunday 18th October
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MX-5ND for one looks better than ever..., though I am a little biased!

Mike1990

804 posts

89 months

Sunday 18th October
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Great review again...

I get the impression Ford has made the ST 'that' good because there's no RS, same applies to the Fiesta. I'm not a fan of the current shade of Performance Blue, much preferred the older Blue's.

Chestrockwell

2,257 posts

115 months

Sunday 18th October
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Watching Dan praise the Civic puts a smile on my face as he says the exact things I used to say, he couldn’t stop raving about the Civic and he didn’t have much to say about the Focus however the article says it doesn’t matter which way you go which shows this lack of real opinions.

God I miss my Honda frown

Chuck328

1,301 posts

125 months

Sunday 18th October
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I'm surprised about the his comments on the Fords steering. I really like how they have worked the Fiesta STs. It's far better than say...Audi.

AXlawrence

524 posts

82 months

Sunday 18th October
quotequote all
Galerion said:
Cars with a high CO² output will now cost much more. Every model that raises your fleet average output will lead to heavy penalty payments to the EU.

That's why Toyota can actually afford to invest in sporty cars since they have invested and have been successful in lowering their fleet output for years.

Ford can't claim the same. Their output has actually risen over the last years.
What if it were a hybrid? Or are we still a bit too far away from hybrid hot hatches for it to be viable for the current Focus?

mstrbkr

7,815 posts

156 months

Monday 19th October
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Chuck328 said:
I'm surprised about the his comments on the Fords steering. I really like how they have worked the Fiesta STs. It's far better than say...Audi.
I’ve not driven an Audi for years but if what you say is true they must be really bad! The mk7 fiesta ST has the same issue as this Focus here - no communication whatsoever about what the front wheels are doing.

HazzaT

65 posts

3 months

Monday 19th October
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Mike1990 said:
Great review again...

I get the impression Ford has made the ST 'that' good because there's no RS, same applies to the Fiesta. I'm not a fan of the current shade of Performance Blue, much preferred the older Blue's.
Eh, it looks better in person than photos-it changes shade quite a lot depending on the light and clouds. Spirit Blue was a great colour though, shame they didn't keep it

greenarrow

2,451 posts

75 months

Monday 19th October
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Great review Dan. As a Ford fan, nice to see a generally positive review of the ST against the Civic Type R, but well done on calling out the steering. I had a Mk4 Focus loan car last year and thought the steering was overly light and gave zero feedback, but all the mags said it was "feelsome" so I thought it was just me not being used to brand new cars and their ways! Its important this stuff is called out, because like you I found that in the wet, I had no idea when the grip was running out.

Also agree with the comments about styling. I couldn't believe how ugly and uninspiring the Mk4 Zetec was when I had it, with that awful chrome grille. The ST is better looking than that, but still just doesn't look right somehow. Compare it to a Mk1 ST or RS, which remains such a handsome car almost 20 years on. The Civic however, I am getting used to.

I think the Civic is one of those cars that will go down in hot hatch folk-lore, like the hot Peugeots and Renaultsport Meganes of old. Its led its class now for 3 years and I wonder what will topple it?

ChrisCh86

47 posts

2 months

Monday 19th October
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AXlawrence said:
What if it were a hybrid? Or are we still a bit too far away from hybrid hot hatches for it to be viable for the current Focus?
It won't happen. Ford don't have the money to develop it properly and their fleet CO2 average is too high to consider any significant investment in sporty hatchbacks. Given that North America also doesn't sell the Focus (or any other car that isn't a SUV) then that's the nail in the coffin for any RS product. The Mk3 RS will be the last RS product for a while.

HazzaT

65 posts

3 months

Monday 19th October
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ChrisCh86 said:
It won't happen. Ford don't have the money to develop it properly and their fleet CO2 average is too high to consider any significant investment in sporty hatchbacks. Given that North America also doesn't sell the Focus (or any other car that isn't a SUV) then that's the nail in the coffin for any RS product. The Mk3 RS will be the last RS product for a while.
I love my Mk8 ST but you can definitely tell they made it with emissions/economy in mind nearly as much as performance. The engine is strong but it feels very restrained, I think it really needs a remap to be honest

AlphaDelta

22 posts

3 months

Monday 19th October
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ChrisCh86 said:
It won't happen. Ford don't have the money to develop it properly and their fleet CO2 average is too high to consider any significant investment in sporty hatchbacks. Given that North America also doesn't sell the Focus (or any other car that isn't a SUV) then that's the nail in the coffin for any RS product. The Mk3 RS will be the last RS product for a while.
Exactly. Ford aren’t performing well financially even before COVID. The mk3 RS was a global car that’s how the business case made it viable. Ford’s stopped selling cars in NA and will probably do the same in Europe in time. Combine that with a fleet that doesn’t meet emissions targets and the RS really is gone forever. The future for Ford is SUVs and commercial vehicles.

Elatino1

830 posts

19 months

Tuesday 20th October
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I think you are wrong but we'll see in a few years.

Court_S

3,338 posts

135 months

Tuesday 20th October
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I respect the Honda but can’t see beyond the aesthetics and have zero desire to own one.

This generation of ST is just a bit meh, especially in that awful blue. The yellow estate posted looks much better.