RE: 2020 Honda Civic Type R vs. Ford Focus ST
Discussion
Elatino1 said:
Depite what they say, Ford will bring out an RS model in the last 2 years of its life cycle.
Cars with a high CO² output will now cost much more. Every model that raises your fleet average output will lead to heavy penalty payments to the EU. That's why Toyota can actually afford to invest in sporty cars since they have invested and have been successful in lowering their fleet output for years.
Ford can't claim the same. Their output has actually risen over the last years.
StuntmanMike said:
DoubleD said:
tommy1973s said:
2 seriously ugly cars. Imagine the flak if VW ever made anything as ugly as either of those ...
What VW do though is worse, there cars are bland and that is a bigger crime than ugly!ajap1979 said:
StuntmanMike said:
DoubleD said:
tommy1973s said:
2 seriously ugly cars. Imagine the flak if VW ever made anything as ugly as either of those ...
What VW do though is worse, there cars are bland and that is a bigger crime than ugly!DoubleD said:
ajap1979 said:
StuntmanMike said:
DoubleD said:
tommy1973s said:
2 seriously ugly cars. Imagine the flak if VW ever made anything as ugly as either of those ...
What VW do though is worse, there cars are bland and that is a bigger crime than ugly!Watching Dan praise the Civic puts a smile on my face as he says the exact things I used to say, he couldn’t stop raving about the Civic and he didn’t have much to say about the Focus however the article says it doesn’t matter which way you go which shows this lack of real opinions.
God I miss my Honda
God I miss my Honda
Galerion said:
Cars with a high CO² output will now cost much more. Every model that raises your fleet average output will lead to heavy penalty payments to the EU.
That's why Toyota can actually afford to invest in sporty cars since they have invested and have been successful in lowering their fleet output for years.
Ford can't claim the same. Their output has actually risen over the last years.
What if it were a hybrid? Or are we still a bit too far away from hybrid hot hatches for it to be viable for the current Focus?That's why Toyota can actually afford to invest in sporty cars since they have invested and have been successful in lowering their fleet output for years.
Ford can't claim the same. Their output has actually risen over the last years.
Chuck328 said:
I'm surprised about the his comments on the Fords steering. I really like how they have worked the Fiesta STs. It's far better than say...Audi.
I’ve not driven an Audi for years but if what you say is true they must be really bad! The mk7 fiesta ST has the same issue as this Focus here - no communication whatsoever about what the front wheels are doing.Mike1990 said:
Great review again...
I get the impression Ford has made the ST 'that' good because there's no RS, same applies to the Fiesta. I'm not a fan of the current shade of Performance Blue, much preferred the older Blue's.
Eh, it looks better in person than photos-it changes shade quite a lot depending on the light and clouds. Spirit Blue was a great colour though, shame they didn't keep itI get the impression Ford has made the ST 'that' good because there's no RS, same applies to the Fiesta. I'm not a fan of the current shade of Performance Blue, much preferred the older Blue's.
Great review Dan. As a Ford fan, nice to see a generally positive review of the ST against the Civic Type R, but well done on calling out the steering. I had a Mk4 Focus loan car last year and thought the steering was overly light and gave zero feedback, but all the mags said it was "feelsome" so I thought it was just me not being used to brand new cars and their ways! Its important this stuff is called out, because like you I found that in the wet, I had no idea when the grip was running out.
Also agree with the comments about styling. I couldn't believe how ugly and uninspiring the Mk4 Zetec was when I had it, with that awful chrome grille. The ST is better looking than that, but still just doesn't look right somehow. Compare it to a Mk1 ST or RS, which remains such a handsome car almost 20 years on. The Civic however, I am getting used to.
I think the Civic is one of those cars that will go down in hot hatch folk-lore, like the hot Peugeots and Renaultsport Meganes of old. Its led its class now for 3 years and I wonder what will topple it?
Also agree with the comments about styling. I couldn't believe how ugly and uninspiring the Mk4 Zetec was when I had it, with that awful chrome grille. The ST is better looking than that, but still just doesn't look right somehow. Compare it to a Mk1 ST or RS, which remains such a handsome car almost 20 years on. The Civic however, I am getting used to.
I think the Civic is one of those cars that will go down in hot hatch folk-lore, like the hot Peugeots and Renaultsport Meganes of old. Its led its class now for 3 years and I wonder what will topple it?
AXlawrence said:
What if it were a hybrid? Or are we still a bit too far away from hybrid hot hatches for it to be viable for the current Focus?
It won't happen. Ford don't have the money to develop it properly and their fleet CO2 average is too high to consider any significant investment in sporty hatchbacks. Given that North America also doesn't sell the Focus (or any other car that isn't a SUV) then that's the nail in the coffin for any RS product. The Mk3 RS will be the last RS product for a while.ChrisCh86 said:
It won't happen. Ford don't have the money to develop it properly and their fleet CO2 average is too high to consider any significant investment in sporty hatchbacks. Given that North America also doesn't sell the Focus (or any other car that isn't a SUV) then that's the nail in the coffin for any RS product. The Mk3 RS will be the last RS product for a while.
I love my Mk8 ST but you can definitely tell they made it with emissions/economy in mind nearly as much as performance. The engine is strong but it feels very restrained, I think it really needs a remap to be honestChrisCh86 said:
It won't happen. Ford don't have the money to develop it properly and their fleet CO2 average is too high to consider any significant investment in sporty hatchbacks. Given that North America also doesn't sell the Focus (or any other car that isn't a SUV) then that's the nail in the coffin for any RS product. The Mk3 RS will be the last RS product for a while.
Exactly. Ford aren’t performing well financially even before COVID. The mk3 RS was a global car that’s how the business case made it viable. Ford’s stopped selling cars in NA and will probably do the same in Europe in time. Combine that with a fleet that doesn’t meet emissions targets and the RS really is gone forever. The future for Ford is SUVs and commercial vehicles. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff