RE: 331mph Tuatara is world's fastest production car
Discussion
One bit of odd trivia.
The Production Car Top Speed Record has been held three times by American cars. Always built by guys named Shelby.
In 1965 a Shelby Cobra Mk III 427 from Carroll Shelby took the record
In 2007 an SSC Ultimate Aero TT from Jerod Shelby took the record
In 2020 an SSC Tuatara from Jerod Shelby took the record
In fact, SSC originally was Shelby SuperCars until Carroll Shelby's people requested the name change to avoid confusion.
Jerod and Carroll Shelby are not related.
The Production Car Top Speed Record has been held three times by American cars. Always built by guys named Shelby.
In 1965 a Shelby Cobra Mk III 427 from Carroll Shelby took the record
In 2007 an SSC Ultimate Aero TT from Jerod Shelby took the record
In 2020 an SSC Tuatara from Jerod Shelby took the record
In fact, SSC originally was Shelby SuperCars until Carroll Shelby's people requested the name change to avoid confusion.
Jerod and Carroll Shelby are not related.
Edited by MikeGalos on Tuesday 20th October 17:35
I think that it's very impressive, for the tyres as others have said, and also at managing the aerodynamics so that it neither digs into the road or takes off. I'm glad that companies do it, but I can't imagine, if you want a very good, very fast road car that one capable of over 300mph is going to be near the top of the list, unless there were some changes allowed for the runs.
The tyres, for example, need to sustain those huge forces, the construction would probably give better feel and feedback if they didn't need to go over 200mph.
The suspension needs. to not have any harmonics, or pitching that will launch or bury the car at 330mph. Again, this will not be a good setup for enjoying a bit of a blast on a twisty road at 80mph.
Steering rack speed, stability, centre of aerodynamic drag, these are all going to be chosen to stop it spitting you off the road neat VMax, not to create a fine feeling sports car at more normal speeds.
The tyres, for example, need to sustain those huge forces, the construction would probably give better feel and feedback if they didn't need to go over 200mph.
The suspension needs. to not have any harmonics, or pitching that will launch or bury the car at 330mph. Again, this will not be a good setup for enjoying a bit of a blast on a twisty road at 80mph.
Steering rack speed, stability, centre of aerodynamic drag, these are all going to be chosen to stop it spitting you off the road neat VMax, not to create a fine feeling sports car at more normal speeds.
Sandpit Steve said:
MitchT said:
I recall an article in which it was claimed that a Bugatti Veyron travelling at top speed will destroy its tyres in 19 minutes, but this isn't a problem as it'll run out of fuel in 12 minutes, thus avoiding disaster. I wonder what those times would look like for the Tuatara?
This car carries a lot less weight than a Veyron, but yes it will quickly drink the tank and shred the tyres at these speeds. As others have said, the achievement in tyre technology for running at these speeds shouldn’t be underestimated. Hats off to everyone involved in the project, awesome achievement! howardhughes said:
I dare say that this hyper car will disappear into obscurity despite claiming the world's fastest title.
Callaway Corvette hit 250mph over twenty years ago but none battered an eyelid.
Also, Bugatti have the provenance and exclusivity too, and I know which I would rather have.
It was 35 years ago. And the Callaway Sledgehammer wasn't a production car but it was legendary. Callaway Corvette hit 250mph over twenty years ago but none battered an eyelid.
Also, Bugatti have the provenance and exclusivity too, and I know which I would rather have.
I'm not sure any production car that can do 331mph will disappear into obscurity, although it'll be interesting to see how many they actually sell.
howardhughes said:
I dare say that this hyper car will disappear into obscurity despite claiming the world's fastest title.
I'd point out that SSC North America has taken the title before, held it for a couple of years, is still around and is not only competing with the vastly larger multinational holding companies like Volkswagen Aktiengesellschaft but is beating them.NDNDNDND said:
... it'll be interesting to see how many they actually sell.
The production goal for the Tuatara is 100 cars so they don't need to sell many. I'd expect SSC North America's Dubai showroom has quite a few deposits in place with several more since they retook the world record.NDNDNDND said:
howardhughes said:
I dare say that this hyper car will disappear into obscurity despite claiming the world's fastest title.
Callaway Corvette hit 250mph over twenty years ago but none battered an eyelid.
Also, Bugatti have the provenance and exclusivity too, and I know which I would rather have.
It was 35 years ago. And the Callaway Sledgehammer wasn't a production car but it was legendary. Callaway Corvette hit 250mph over twenty years ago but none battered an eyelid.
Also, Bugatti have the provenance and exclusivity too, and I know which I would rather have.
I'm not sure any production car that can do 331mph will disappear into obscurity, although it'll be interesting to see how many they actually sell.
It's always been assumed that when a European car maker goes after a record, it's all kosher and they wouldn't dare tell porkies. The reality was that Bugatti's 300mph run was in a car unlike that which could be bought, and was essentially a stripped out car with a roll cage.
In that regard, the SSC is a touch closer to being the reality that a customer could buy, because at least it had a proper interior and some door cards - it was just loaded with cameras and had a laptop on the passenger seat. It also seemed to get to 331mph with comparative ease - there's more left in the tank perhaps (on a less windy day).
Much of it goes back to simple geography and that vast swathes of American roads are dead straight, and the penchant for fighter pilots wanting to continue going fast at the end of world war 2 started hot rodding, drag racing and a love of outright speed. Today as a result, the cars built in America are still accused of not being able to go round corners, being poorly built and built to a price. Those last two points I'd perhaps agree with, but when it comes to going fast in a straight line, they always have had a knack of getting the job done, often in emphatic fashion.
The funny thing about all these speed related records, is on one side of the coin, there's always going to be Europeans who want to shun, ignore or discredit such achievements, while at the same time, there are a lot of Americans for whom a world record can only exist if it's set on American soil (yes, that school of thought is...interesting). It means the validity of any of these speed records, gets debated, argued and dissected right up until the next pretender to the crown appears.
Earlier in the thread it was noted that these are probably the last bold efforts of the ICE road car speed records. That could well be correct - the great advantage of BEV power is the torque and power delivery allows for good acceleration, which is rarely spoken about in these speed records. Being able to get to vmax in a short distance has a number of advantages (namely it allows for undertaking records in more places across the globe), and for BEV's, means they're duty cycle can be shorter in the process. I'd wager that a 350mph road legal BEV might become a reality within the next year or two.
Kent Border Kenny said:
I think that it's very impressive, for the tyres as others have said, and also at managing the aerodynamics so that it neither digs into the road or takes off. I'm glad that companies do it, but I can't imagine, if you want a very good, very fast road car that one capable of over 300mph is going to be near the top of the list, unless there were some changes allowed for the runs.
The tyres, for example, need to sustain those huge forces, the construction would probably give better feel and feedback if they didn't need to go over 200mph.
The suspension needs. to not have any harmonics, or pitching that will launch or bury the car at 330mph. Again, this will not be a good setup for enjoying a bit of a blast on a twisty road at 80mph.
Steering rack speed, stability, centre of aerodynamic drag, these are all going to be chosen to stop it spitting you off the road neat VMax, not to create a fine feeling sports car at more normal speeds.
This just reads like a German press release about everything is not finely focussed on ze driving pleasure being achieved by the utmost efficiency in suspension dynamics and body kinematics and spending 18 months perfecting the weight balance of the cup holders when both extended and stored away.The tyres, for example, need to sustain those huge forces, the construction would probably give better feel and feedback if they didn't need to go over 200mph.
The suspension needs. to not have any harmonics, or pitching that will launch or bury the car at 330mph. Again, this will not be a good setup for enjoying a bit of a blast on a twisty road at 80mph.
Steering rack speed, stability, centre of aerodynamic drag, these are all going to be chosen to stop it spitting you off the road neat VMax, not to create a fine feeling sports car at more normal speeds.
It's all utter fodder. Journalists have to waffle on about the minutiae between cars, because it's all they can do to justify their job. The accepted concept they can 'feel the difference' between a Lamborghini 30kg lighter compared to when they drove it in a completely different place 3 years ago is f
king laughable, but this utter obsession over alleged stats and 'feel' at some incredibly sophisticated level is a load of bks.Outside of journalists and racing drivers, so few people have the experience (in terms of practice, exposure to a variety of vehicles, time spent learning about handling near / over the limit etc.) to actually be able to make an informed judgement on something as complex as car handling, and yet marketing repeatedly tells us we're all discerning sophisticated customers who demand the best because it feeds our ego.
Forgive me if you're a PH driving god or similar, but even if so, you won't be the only person thinking this way about the car, and surely it's fairly easy to see the absurdity in largely saying that a 1,850hp read wheel drive supercar would feel crap and not be good for enjoying on the fabled 'twisty bit of road'. People will be thinking this who have no more significant experience than when they drove their mates 335d XDrive once down a particularly curvy slip road, and yet they'll chunter on in the pub (at an appropriate distance with face covering on) about how the American's can't go around corners so the t
tYourA wouldn't see which way their 120d M sport went down a twisty bit of road etc. It's just ridiculous.
Jeez, who pissed in my cornflakes this morning eh?
big_rob_sydney said:
Technically impressive, yet in the real world, if I used more than a fraction of its ability, I'd be in jail.
That said, it would be great if the same people involved could build us a flying car. Take the exact same performance (300+ mph), and I would use it happily flying down to the south of Spain every chance I got; at least that speed is well within normal usage (commercial jets are almost twice as fast, actually).
Totally different skill set required and vastly different cost structure, also billions are being invested in flying cars.That said, it would be great if the same people involved could build us a flying car. Take the exact same performance (300+ mph), and I would use it happily flying down to the south of Spain every chance I got; at least that speed is well within normal usage (commercial jets are almost twice as fast, actually).
The issue with flying cars (aeroplanes) has always been the nut behind the wheel, if you actually look at what goes into a small aircraft it should have price of about $20-30,000 but it doesn't (more like $200-300,000) because of low volumes and high (mostly safety) overheads. The inflation adjusted price of a light aircraft was actually pretty low in the US in the 60-70s and a person with a reasonable job could afford a light aircraft. Since then the cost of flying has gone up as the cost of training had increased, which then lead to a stagnation of light aircraft technologies and a reduction in production volume.
Its only with cheap and ubiquitous flight control technology that we can now either take the pilot out or massively de-skill them, plus the potential of distributed electric propulsion to make the noise levels acceptable which would allow us to operate them closer to residential areas.
MikeGalos said:
I'd point out that SSC North America has taken the title before, held it for a couple of years, is still around and is not only competing with the vastly larger multinational holding companies like Volkswagen Aktiengesellschaft but is beating them.
Beating them at what? Cars sold? Profit? Top speed?These companies are not competing at the same thing. Bugatti is making cars that are as easy to drive, use, refined and as reliable as an everyday car, the fact that there's several Veyrons with 30k+ kms on them bears this out. These small companies meanwhile are focusing on a single metric, one that will not trouble Bugatti's sales figures in the slightest.
NFC 85 Vette said:
It's always been assumed that when a European car maker goes after a record, it's all kosher and they wouldn't dare tell porkies. The reality was that Bugatti's 300mph run was in a car unlike that which could be bought, and was essentially a stripped out car with a roll cage. .
it weighed more than a standard chiron ss because of the cage and the additional equipment. which was there purely for the safety of the driver you 100% could do the same speed in a production car
JxJ Jr. said:
Beating them at what? Cars sold? Profit? Top speed?
Seeing that the article is titled, "331mph Tuatara is world's fastest production car" and seeing that SSC beat Bugatti at being the World's Fastest Production Car the first time and seeing that the thing everyone is defending Bugatti about this time is about their attempt to pretend they'd retaken the World's Fastest Production Car again when they didn't use a production car and refused to do a 2--way run, take a guess what SSC beat them at...NFC 85 Vette said:
...
It's always been assumed that when a European car maker goes after a record, it's all kosher and they wouldn't dare tell porkies. The reality was that Bugatti's 300mph run was in a car unlike that which could be bought, and was essentially a stripped out car with a roll cage.
...
Nice summary but I'd add that the Bugatti record car also had a modified suspension that was lowered and had had less travel since it never would have to run on actual roads so that the aerodynamics would be better for a high-speed run.It's always been assumed that when a European car maker goes after a record, it's all kosher and they wouldn't dare tell porkies. The reality was that Bugatti's 300mph run was in a car unlike that which could be bought, and was essentially a stripped out car with a roll cage.
...
Note also that Bugatti is selling a limited production variant "inspired" by the speed-run one-off but decidedly not the actual car (even ignoring the roll cage) but, rather deceptively, is called by the same name.
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