Cycling two abreast....agree or not?

[kambites]

DoubleD said:

They are also the majority bunch on the road, so its always going to seem that way.

Yup, I was just curious as to why the previous post didn't mention them.

Although I'm absolutely certain there's a positive statistical correlation between the number of different modes of transport someone has experience of using on the road and their levels of courtesy to other road users so I'm sure that people who only drive cars are amongst the worst on the road, on average. Most cyclists are also drivers, most drivers are not also cyclists.

ETA: Note that I'm only a car driver, so I'm not trying to defend other road users out of any sort of self-interest!

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 27th October 09:01

[Court_S]

Mastodon2 said:

Cyclists riding two abreast are easier to pass because the distance you need to cover to overtake them is halved, or less than halved. Not to mention, you shouldn't need to "wait for a clear road" to overtake, because if there is a car coming the other way and cyclists riding close to the edge of the road, you shouldn't be squeezing up the middle anyway. You're supposed to give cyclists the same berth as a car when passing.

The above seems to be largely forgotten or misunderstood by a lot of car, van and lorry drivers, who froth themselves into a rage as soon as they are "held up" by a cyclist.

I think the angriest of them would probably feel much better for getting some time in on two wheels. Exercise and fresh air is a great stress buster and they often seem to be dealing with some pent-up issues.

This times lots...a sensible post on a thread about cycling! Whatever next?

Pretty sure some bodies recommend two abreast don’t that you become a similar width to a car to prevent cars squeezing past in daft places.

You do get some dicks on bikes, but you get plenty of dicks in cars, vans, lorries etc. Dicks are in all walks of life.

[Tommo87]

Foss62 said:

MB140 said:

I have no problem with 2 abreast in groups of say 6 and over. Keeps the overall overtaking distance shorter.

The one that really really pisses me off is when you wait patiently to overtake the group of cyclists. Then at the next set of traffic lights the whole group pile past you and then stop at the front of the queue (or worse still pile straight through the red light as obviously the rules of the roads don’t apply to them) rather than just waiting in the queue with everyone else. This then means the whole bunch of cars have to wait for spots to overtake them again. Bunch of c**ts of the highest order.

I saw a guy in Sudbury on Themes actually get out his transit van and go absolutely ape st at a group of cyclists that did just this. The cyclists to a man couldn’t see what his issue was, they all genuinely seemed surprised by his reaction. Inconsiderate tw*ts.

So what about all the inconsiderate tw*ts who overtake cyclists when it is clear that they will be holding those cyclists up a few yards down the road? If it is obvious that someone is travelling faster than you, then why insist on trying to get past them?

I think you have summed up cycling opinion on road usage very well there.

They want faster vehicles to wait for them (as per the OP), but when the opposite scenario occurs, then they wish to have a plethora f exceptions applied in their benefit.

[Dog Star]

Slightly off-topic - what is it with these road cyclists and their attire - porky middle aged blokes dressed up in skintight lycra, pot bellies on show for all to see. They look utterly ridiculous, and when they're all in the same outfit..... Do they actually think they're Chris Froome and that's their physique (they always try to bluster their way around why they shave their legs too), or are they some sort of sexual deviants? I think it's really, really odd.

Full disclosure - I'm quite partial to porky middle aged women in lycra so maybe they're on to something?

[DonkeyApple]

Pica-Pica said:

I don’t mind cyclists riding two abreast, I am going to overtake on the other side of the road anyway. What annoys me is when a bunch of cyclists stretch out over say 30+ metres ahead with no space in the middle. Most groups don’t do this, I have to say, and leave gaps to leap-frog through the group.

This is part of the absence of manners or civility when in a group. There is no logic or fair reasoning to begrudge anyone at all from using the roads for whatever legal purpose they wish. To dislike a cyclist for simply being a cyclist is exactly the same brain function as disliking a woman for being a woman or a non white person for being non white etc. We certainly see bafflingly large numbers of those broken minds on PH and no doubt they have already surfaced on this thread if there isn’t currently a topical thread about women in SUVs to distract them. But all road users must convert respect for each other whether that be drivers being more patient when negotiating fellow and more vulnerable road users and slower road users ensuring they minimise their inconveniencing of their fellows.

The problem with gangs of blokes is that the true nature of the individual human tends to be revealed because that person suddenly has the confidence they lack themselves from their gang to be what they really are. It’s probably the same process where a meek little man who wouldn’t say boo to a goose becomes an unpleasant little turd when cocooned in the safety of their car or the charming man who when no one is looking is a filthy litrle sex pest.

A peleton can be near impossible to pass on certain roads because you don’t really want to be vmaxing it past such vulnerable road users. It only takes one cyclist to have a wobble and they are all having to veer. You want to try and pass with enough speed as to be safe but not too much to then lose that safety and with oncoming traffic you can end up with no safe overtake for miles. The intelligent groups will split into smaller blocks and that’s quite common but the ones who don’t on roads where their speed is abnormally slow and overtakes limited are just showing very poor roadcraft and etiquette.

[cerb4.5lee]

J4CKO said:

I am a bit of a Billy No Mates when I cycle, but when I do ride with someone else its not hard to ride two abreast when its quiet, and then if cars approach fall back into single file.

If nothing else it shows some consideration even if it doesnt make it massively easier to pass.

You hit the nail on the head for me when you mention consideration. Nowadays all the cyclists I see ride with a "I'm alright Jack" attitude.

When I used to ride on the roads(well over 20 years ago now) I would ride two abreast if it was quiet, but when I heard the traffic I'd drop back into single file. Cyclists now seem to get a kick out of pissing off the other road users.

[kambites]

Dog Star said:

Slightly off-topic - what is it with these road cyclists and their attire - porky middle aged blokes dressed up in skintight lycra, pot bellies on show for all to see. They look utterly ridiculous, and when they're all in the same outfit..... Do they actually think they're Chris Froome and that's their physique (they always try to bluster their way around why they shave their legs too), or are they some sort of sexual deviants? I think it's really, really odd.

I suppose at least they're doing the form of exercise the clothing is designed for, unlike the porky middle-aged blokes dressed in football shirts you see everywhere.

[kambites]

cerb4.5lee said:

When I used to ride on the roads(well over 20 years ago now) I would ride two abreast if it was quiet, but when I heard the traffic I'd drop back into single file.

Now you see I'd consider that to be really inconsiderate because I find it easier to pass cyclists who are riding two abreast than who are single-file. Unless you dropped back several car lengths each time you were going to be overtaken to make space for a car to slot into the gap between you and the bike in front.

[Court_S]

Wombat3 said:

That is unless of course one of the countless packs of "Mamils" that tend to appear on a Saturday morning occupy the whole bloody lane.

Very frigging annoying when I'm trying to get to work on a Saturday morning.

If it happens every weekend just leave a bit earlier? Not rocket science.

[Gilhooligan]

Wombat3 said:

If you are delaying other people by cycling 2 abreast then its just bloody rude not to fall into single file; and far too many of them do it round here & plainly don't give a st about being considerate to other road users.

It may be quicker to pass them than 2 in line but if there is any oncoming traffic then often you can't pass them safely at all (whereas you could if they were not side by side).

First rule of being a considerate road user (IMO): don't hold anyone else up if you don't have to.

If there’s oncoming traffic should you really be attempting to overtake anyway? Especially when you’re meant to give a cyclist a 1.5m gap.

I don’t think I’ve been held up by more than 10 seconds whilst waiting to (safely) overtake a cyclist. But by these threads, you’d think it was the end of the world.

I think a lot of the anger is through ignorance. If more drivers actually attempted to cycle on a road they’d soon realise how scary it can be when idiot drivers do dodgy overtakes and don’t give enough room etc.

[DoubleD]

kambites said:

cerb4.5lee said:

When I used to ride on the roads(well over 20 years ago now) I would ride two abreast if it was quiet, but when I heard the traffic I'd drop back into single file.

Now you see I'd consider that to be really inconsiderate because I find it easier to pass cyclists who are riding two abreast than who are single-file. Unless you dropped back several car lengths each time you were going to be overtaken to make space for a car to slot into the gap between you and the bike in front.

Depends on the road as to which is easier and safer.

[kambites]

DoubleD said:

kambites said:

cerb4.5lee said:

When I used to ride on the roads(well over 20 years ago now) I would ride two abreast if it was quiet, but when I heard the traffic I'd drop back into single file.

Now you see I'd consider that to be really inconsiderate because I find it easier to pass cyclists who are riding two abreast than who are single-file. Unless you dropped back several car lengths each time you were going to be overtaken to make space for a car to slot into the gap between you and the bike in front.

Depends on the road as to which is easier and safer.

Yes that's true, but the argument "it's inconsiderate to ride two abreast" makes no more sense on its own than "it's inconsiderate to ride in single file". I generally find that on most two-lane roads, two-abreast makes passing easier. On single-tack roads it makes it harder. On Dual carriageways it makes no difference.

There are some very wide two-lane roads, usually NSL ones, where I feel it's safe to pass (with a small closing speed) when there's traffic coming the other way, but generally it's pretty rare to get cyclists on them and given how many idiot drivers seem to overtake them at or above the speed limit with cars coming the other way I can see why they want to stop drivers doing it at all!

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 27th October 09:12

[cerb4.5lee]

Mastodon2 said:

I think the angriest of them would probably feel much better for getting some time in on two wheels. Exercise and fresh air is a great stress buster and they often seem to be dealing with some pent-up issues.

I go out running two to three times a week in the fresh air(3 miles at a time)...and it doesn't make me any less angry!

I am less stressed when I'm out running though, because I'm pleased that I'm not in my car when I see a bloody cyclist!

[Kawasicki]

I cycle on the road a few hours a week with my local club, mostly two abreast.

Can’t say we hold many people up. Some of the cyclists in my club aren’t very situationally aware, but it works well for the most part.

I drive a lot too, I get held up by cyclists, tractors, people driving under the speed limit.

It just doesn’t bother me much.

Maybe it’s because I have also ridden bikes, driven tractors, etc... maybe it’s because I live somewhere with fairly low traffic congestion. I can imagine other people have a more “pressure cooker“ existence than I have, but everyone should remember that we are only alive for a few years, be kind, live and let live.

Lecture over!

[g7jhp]

I cycle and drive and generally I stick to single file but position myself away from the kerb to ensure I don't get squeezed with close passes.

Always amuses me that you have some drivers who must overtake at all costs. Often coming into towns, villages.

I then filter past as they hit a queue of traffic.

In the countey lanes people squeeze past only to have to stop for an oncoming car and hold you up. Great when you're able to filter past and continue to make progress without having to stop.

Motorists never consider that a cyclist wants to keep going as they are powering themselves and stopping and starting is alot more tiring. In a car you just press the accelerator/ brake.

[cerb4.5lee]

kambites said:

DoubleD said:

kambites said:

cerb4.5lee said:

When I used to ride on the roads(well over 20 years ago now) I would ride two abreast if it was quiet, but when I heard the traffic I'd drop back into single file.

Now you see I'd consider that to be really inconsiderate because I find it easier to pass cyclists who are riding two abreast than who are single-file. Unless you dropped back several car lengths each time you were going to be overtaken to make space for a car to slot into the gap between you and the bike in front.

Depends on the road as to which is easier and safer.

Yes that's true, but the argument "it's inconsiderate to ride two abreast" makes no more sense on its own than "it's inconsiderate to ride in single file". I generally find that on two-lane roads, two-abreast makes passing easier. On single-tack roads it makes it harder. On Dual carriageways it makes no difference.

I guess that it boils down to a personal preference. I've always preferred overtaking cyclists in single file. Whereas two abreast I find more difficult and more annoying. With two abreast you have to go all the way across to the other side of the road, with single file you can just nip past quickly without having to go onto the other side of the road.

[VonSenger]

Foss62 said:

MB140 said:

I have no problem with 2 abreast in groups of say 6 and over. Keeps the overall overtaking distance shorter.

The one that really really pisses me off is when you wait patiently to overtake the group of cyclists. Then at the next set of traffic lights the whole group pile past you and then stop at the front of the queue (or worse still pile straight through the red light as obviously the rules of the roads don’t apply to them) rather than just waiting in the queue with everyone else. This then means the whole bunch of cars have to wait for spots to overtake them again. Bunch of c**ts of the highest order.

I saw a guy in Sudbury on Themes actually get out his transit van and go absolutely ape st at a group of cyclists that did just this. The cyclists to a man couldn’t see what his issue was, they all genuinely seemed surprised by his reaction. Inconsiderate tw*ts.

So what about all the inconsiderate tw*ts who overtake cyclists when it is clear that they will be holding those cyclists up a few yards down the road? If it is obvious that someone is travelling faster than you, then why insist on trying to get past them?

Delusional plonker.

[kambites]

cerb4.5lee said:

I guess that it boils down to a personal preference. I've always preferred overtaking cyclists in single file. Whereas two abreast I find more difficult and more annoying. With two abreast you have to go all the way across to the other side of the road, with single file you can just nip past quickly without having to go onto the other side of the road.

I generally go all the way to the other side of the road even when passing them in single file, which I suppose is why I prefer two-abreast. If the space is there to create a safety buffer, why not use it?

Whether two abreast or single file, it's clearly necessary from a safety perspective on many roads for cyclists to ride in a position which actively blocks impatient car drivers from squeezing past while there's traffic coming the other way. Whenever I see cyclists on the road, the thing which strikes me is how poorly the car drivers behave around them. Whilst obviously I do see people cycling poorly, I find that's far less common.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 27th October 09:21

[JD82]

Court_S said:

Mastodon2 said:

Cyclists riding two abreast are easier to pass because the distance you need to cover to overtake them is halved, or less than halved. Not to mention, you shouldn't need to "wait for a clear road" to overtake, because if there is a car coming the other way and cyclists riding close to the edge of the road, you shouldn't be squeezing up the middle anyway. You're supposed to give cyclists the same berth as a car when passing.

The above seems to be largely forgotten or misunderstood by a lot of car, van and lorry drivers, who froth themselves into a rage as soon as they are "held up" by a cyclist.

I think the angriest of them would probably feel much better for getting some time in on two wheels. Exercise and fresh air is a great stress buster and they often seem to be dealing with some pent-up issues.

This times lots...a sensible post on a thread about cycling! Whatever next?

Pretty sure some bodies recommend two abreast don’t that you become a similar width to a car to prevent cars squeezing past in daft places.

You do get some dicks on bikes, but you get plenty of dicks in cars, vans, lorries etc. Dicks are in all walks of life.

Pretty much the only rational comments on here. Well done.

[okgo]

So annoying cycling in London, these idiots all one by one in their cars going nowhere holding me up, so inconsiderate!