RE: Land Rover Defender 90 | UK Review

[DoubleD]

hyphen said:

DoubleD said:

The last old defender 90 that I was in had 2 fixed rear seats at the back with almost no luggage space.

So the new one is an improvement!

It would seem so.

[Deathmole]

These looks tremendous as a 3 door IMO, not keen on the stretched look of the 5, though.

Brilliant, I hope that they sell millions of 'em

[alfaspecial]

Very disappointed. I'd rather hoped the Defender would be an affordable, very basic, sub-Discovery, true off road workhorse rather than just another generic Chelsea tractor.

Pricing wise, back in 1948, a LandRover series 1 was £450, a Morris Minor £358
source https://www.landrover.co.uk/explore-land-rover/one...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Minor

So you 'paid' a 25% premium over a small family car, for the benefits of a LR's off road ability, but you pay 5* as much now, (when compared to a basic family car).

The market is flooded with SUVs but I'm sure there must be a market for a cheap, genuine 4WD.
I suppose the last one was the Suzuki SJ410 ......

[DoubleD]

alfaspecial said:

I suppose the last one was the Suzuki SJ410 ......

No, it would be the Jimny.

Are you in the market for such a car then?

[ddom]

It really doesn't seem that JLR still cannot build a reliable car?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBVZyvfiqKw

[dukebox9reg]

alfaspecial said:

Very disappointed. I'd rather hoped the Defender would be an affordable, very basic, sub-Discovery, true off road workhorse rather than just another generic Chelsea tractor.

Pricing wise, back in 1948, a LandRover series 1 was £450, a Morris Minor £358
source https://www.landrover.co.uk/explore-land-rover/one...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Minor

So you 'paid' a 25% premium over a small family car, for the benefits of a LR's off road ability, but you pay 5* as much now, (when compared to a basic family car).

The market is flooded with SUVs but I'm sure there must be a market for a cheap, genuine 4WD.
I suppose the last one was the Suzuki SJ410 ......

but the Morris minor wasnt the Hyundai I10 of the day though was it. It was a VW Golf/Ford Focus. You cant say the Defender is a direct comparison to the 1 series in any way as its jumped up a numbers of steps up the posh ladder, a new take on the Defender would be something like a pick up or Shogun etc. Though through the Disco Sport, starts at 32k, a boggo trim Golf with the smallest engine (1.0tsi 110PS) is touching 24k (+ 25% is 30k) so there you go.

As I just did you can make up things and make the numbers fit how you want to make an argument. Again a Golf GTI/GTD is 35k + your 25% you have a Defender........

Theres a reason why people dont do Shoguns etc now in the UK. As most people would rather cough up an extra 5-10k for something like drives more like a car than a truck from the 90's day to day. Want a more rough and ready 4x4, buy a pick up

Edited by dukebox9reg on Wednesday 28th October 16:23

[alfaspecial]

dukebox9reg said:

alfaspecial said:

Very disappointed. I'd rather hoped the Defender would be an affordable, very basic, sub-Discovery, true off road workhorse rather than just another generic Chelsea tractor.

Pricing wise, back in 1948, a LandRover series 1 was £450, a Morris Minor £358
source https://www.landrover.co.uk/explore-land-rover/one...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Minor

So you 'paid' a 25% premium over a small family car, for the benefits of a LR's off road ability, but you pay 5* as much now, (when compared to a basic family car).

The market is flooded with SUVs but I'm sure there must be a market for a cheap, genuine 4WD.
I suppose the last one was the Suzuki SJ410 ......

but the Morris minor wasnt the Hyundai I10 of the day though was it. It was a VW Golf/Ford Focus. You cant say the Defender is a direct comparison to the 1 series in any way as its jumped up a numbers of steps up the posh ladder, a new take on the Defender would be something like a pick up or Shogun etc. Though through the Disco Sport, starts at 32k, a boggo trim Golf with the smallest engine (1.0tsi 110PS) is touching 24k (+ 25% is 30k) so there you go.

As I just did you can make up things and make the numbers fit how you want to make an argument. Again a Golf GTI/GTD is 35k + your 25% you have a Defender........

Theres a reason why people dont do Shoguns etc now in the UK. As most people would rather cough up an extra 5-10k for something like drives more like a car than a truck from the 90's day to day. Want a more rough and ready 4x4, buy a pick up

Edited by dukebox9reg on Wednesday 28th October 16:23

I chose a Morris Minor as an example, purely because it was introduced, like the LR in 1948
How about the Ford Anglia which was the cheapest car on sale @ £310? (in 1950) https://www.motoringresearch.com/features/cost-car...

The LR S1 was 50% more than the cheapest car then available (even if you could buy one)..... that would indicate the price of a basic 4wd would be £12k, if we were to use a comparison with a £8k Dacia Sandero today.

I think there is a market at £12k for a basic 4WD.
The new LR Defender is just another overpriced toy for suburban mums and wannabe faux rustic types. IMHO.


And yes, Double D I could be in the market for a proper, old style LR series 1 type car at £12k.......... but I couldn't afford the £35k a real one goes for!

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10406372?c...

[Bill]

£12k? You're having a laugh.

Dacia just about managed it a few years ago by recyling old Renault "Tec".

How much is a Jimny??

[alfaspecial]

Bill said:

£12k? You're having a laugh.

Dacia just about managed it a few years ago by recyling old Renault "Tec".

How much is a Jimny??

The Dacia is £11k and comes with the sort of comfort safety and extras a 1948 car buyer would never even have dreamt of! So £12k for a car as basic as a Series 1 is doable (H&S excluded) ?

No, I'd like to be able to buy a Series 1 / SJ410 type vehicle. But is it just for safety reasons that you can't. Or is it profiteering?

But then again, it's me that's wrong.
A top spec mini cost £537 in 1959 or £12600 in today's money.
The new Defender is not the same as the old 'true' series Landies - in the same way that the Mini is a mere marketing exercise based around the name, not the spirit of the original mini.
As is the New Fiat 500 v the original.
Or the new and old Beetles.

And the true spiritual successor to a Defender is certainly not even the £50k Ineos Grenadier .....

[Davey S2]

hyphen said:

Nice car.

Its a shame rear seats don't fold flat though

So basically if you need to carry anything you need to fold the rear seats (but you can't fold them all the way).

It looks as though with the seats up you couldn't even get a weeks shopping in the boot let alone one of your dead sheep.

Doesn't seem very practical to me.

[Water Fairy]

Objectively this may well be a very good vehicle but in no way is it a replacement for the old Defender. And more's the pity as far as I'm concerned.

[Bill]

alfaspecial said:

The Dacia is £11k and comes with the sort of comfort safety and extras a 1948 car buyer would never even have dreamt of! So £12k for a car as basic as a Series 1 is doable (H&S excluded) ?

No, I'd like to be able to buy a Series 1 / SJ410 type vehicle. But is it just for safety reasons that you can't. Or is it profiteering?

But then again, it's me that's wrong.
A top spec mini cost £537 in 1959 or £12600 in today's money.
The new Defender is not the same as the old 'true' series Landies - in the same way that the Mini is a mere marketing exercise based around the name, not the spirit of the original mini.
As is the New Fiat 500 v the original.
Or the new and old Beetles.

And the true spiritual successor to a Defender is certainly not even the £50k Ineos Grenadier .....

Is that the AWD Duster? I thought they were more.

Either way that's using mass produced parts from older cars, so low development costs.

If you really want an S1, have a look at a Gator or some of the stuff Polaris do. That's the spiritual successor of the S1.

[2xChevrons]

alfaspecial said:

dukebox9reg said:

alfaspecial said:

Very disappointed. I'd rather hoped the Defender would be an affordable, very basic, sub-Discovery, true off road workhorse rather than just another generic Chelsea tractor.

Pricing wise, back in 1948, a LandRover series 1 was £450, a Morris Minor £358
source https://www.landrover.co.uk/explore-land-rover/one...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Minor

So you 'paid' a 25% premium over a small family car, for the benefits of a LR's off road ability, but you pay 5* as much now, (when compared to a basic family car).

The market is flooded with SUVs but I'm sure there must be a market for a cheap, genuine 4WD.
I suppose the last one was the Suzuki SJ410 ......

but the Morris minor wasnt the Hyundai I10 of the day though was it. It was a VW Golf/Ford Focus. You cant say the Defender is a direct comparison to the 1 series in any way as its jumped up a numbers of steps up the posh ladder, a new take on the Defender would be something like a pick up or Shogun etc. Though through the Disco Sport, starts at 32k, a boggo trim Golf with the smallest engine (1.0tsi 110PS) is touching 24k (+ 25% is 30k) so there you go.

As I just did you can make up things and make the numbers fit how you want to make an argument. Again a Golf GTI/GTD is 35k + your 25% you have a Defender........

Theres a reason why people dont do Shoguns etc now in the UK. As most people would rather cough up an extra 5-10k for something like drives more like a car than a truck from the 90's day to day. Want a more rough and ready 4x4, buy a pick up

Edited by dukebox9reg on Wednesday 28th October 16:23

I chose a Morris Minor as an example, purely because it was introduced, like the LR in 1948
How about the Ford Anglia which was the cheapest car on sale @ £310? (in 1950) https://www.motoringresearch.com/features/cost-car...

The LR S1 was 50% more than the cheapest car then available (even if you could buy one)..... that would indicate the price of a basic 4wd would be £12k, if we were to use a comparison with a £8k Dacia Sandero today.

I think there is a market at £12k for a basic 4WD.
The new LR Defender is just another overpriced toy for suburban mums and wannabe faux rustic types. IMHO.


And yes, Double D I could be in the market for a proper, old style LR series 1 type car at £12k.......... but I couldn't afford the £35k a real one goes for!

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10406372?c...

dukebox9reg said:

but the Morris minor wasnt the Hyundai I10 of the day though was it. It was a VW Golf/Ford Focus. You cant say the Defender is a direct comparison to the 1 series in any way as its jumped up a numbers of steps up the posh ladder, a new take on the Defender would be something like a pick up or Shogun etc. Though through the Disco Sport, starts at 32k, a boggo trim Golf with the smallest engine (1.0tsi 110PS) is touching 24k (+ 25% is 30k) so there you go.

As I just did you can make up things and make the numbers fit how you want to make an argument. Again a Golf GTI/GTD is 35k + your 25% you have a Defender........

But £450 was the base price, for which your Land-Rover came without a hood, doors, side windows, passenger seats, spare wheel/tyre, toolkit or starting handle. For one with all that kit you paid £540.

Which was 1.7-ish times the price of the Anglia, and 1.5 times the price of the Minor. And the quoted price for the Minor wasn't the basic price either. If you take a mid-range Fiesta as the modern equivalent of an MM Minor saloon (about £22k these days), then that would make the entry level price of a Defender £33k - a new Defender 90 Hard Top starts at £43k. So it's not wildly out of kilter with its original market placement. And of course you're getting far more stuff for your money (in both engineering, capability and spec) in a new Defender than an 80-inch...and they're designed and priced for completely different markets in any case.

[Mackofthejungle]

A Discovery 4 is basically the blueprint to success, but they've replaced it (after 4 years of no Discovery on sale - that bus doesn't count) with the Defender 110, which is less practical and arguably less attractive. And if you want a "Land Rover" in the purest sense, their only "proper off-roader" comes bundled with 15 grands worth of civility.

A little on the pricey side too.. Quite like the 90, but it's so style focused it puts me off.

[Davey S2]

So who is this 90 model aimed at? I'm genuinely at a loss.

Not farmers as its too expensive and far too small.

Not for families as its not big enough.

How many single people or couples will want one of these at a minimum of £60K?

JLR must have made up a fictional buyer for this but I can't understand who it would be.

[DoubleD]

Davey S2 said:

So who is this 90 model aimed at? I'm genuinely at a loss.

Not farmers as its too expensive and far too small.

Not for families as its not big enough.

How many single people or couples will want one of these at a minimum of £60K?

JLR must have made up a fictional buyer for this but I can't understand who it would be.

Why the need to know?

[MellowshipSlinky]

I was seriously considering one of these to replace my M2C.
However, nowhere near enough room in the boot for two Boston Terriers, cricket bag, stuff....

I don’t particularly need rear seats as we have other vehicles, but with the seats not folding flat - it’s a no from me, which is a shame as I drove the new 110 on/off road and it really is a good bit of kit.

[Helicopter123]

Davey S2 said:

So who is this 90 model aimed at? I'm genuinely at a loss.

Not farmers as its too expensive and far too small.

Not for families as its not big enough.

How many single people or couples will want one of these at a minimum of £60K?

JLR must have made up a fictional buyer for this but I can't understand who it would be.

Maybe looking at the Jeep Wrangler market?

[BJM1]

hyphen said:

Nice car.

Its a shame rear seats don't fold flat though

Was going to comment on that. Had two Range Rovers a few years back and the rear seats wouldn’t fold flat which was annoying if carrying bikes and the like. Volvo get that stuff right.

[Turn7]

I think the new Bronco will utterly trounce it in the US, and probably here if Ford brought it in.