RE: The best electric cars to buy in 2021
Discussion
SWoll said:
Cotswolds to London and back is easily achievable in a Taycan or many other EV's without needing to hypermile or charge. Your regular 100-140 mile trips would be possible driving in whatever fashion you want all year around and I'm not convinced everyone is quite as reluctant as you are to stop for 15 minutes at a service station even if the distances were twice that.
Really not seeing the problem.
Apart from the fact that it isn't. And apart from the fact that people really don't like to break their journey if they don't have to. Really not seeing the problem.
Nickbrapp said:
Really who the hell is driving from Scotland to Exeter though? Especially in a ice without filling up. More like people driving London to Cornwall would be a better idea, especially if you had a family no way is a kids bladder going to last 300 miles.
I’m a travelling engineer and my area covers the whole of Wales and the south west to Exeter and I wouldn’t think twice about having a EV, I would relish in it, I already stop every day after a maximum 2 hours driving so it wouldn’t impact on me very much at all.
But again, London to Cornwall tends to be a one way journey so not so pertinent as the more common round trip in a day event, things like Brum to London and back. No need at all to stop for a break on that journey so if in the market for £100k cars few are going to entertain the hassle of suddenly having to introducing hanging out with fag ash Lil or fannying about with specialist parking. I’m a travelling engineer and my area covers the whole of Wales and the south west to Exeter and I wouldn’t think twice about having a EV, I would relish in it, I already stop every day after a maximum 2 hours driving so it wouldn’t impact on me very much at all.
DonkeyApple said:
But again, London to Cornwall tends to be a one way journey so not so pertinent as the more common round trip in a day event, things like Brum to London and back. No need at all to stop for a break on that journey so if in the market for £100k cars few are going to entertain the hassle of suddenly having to introducing hanging out with fag ash Lil or fannying about with specialist parking.
London to Birmingham is anywhere between 120-170 miles and anywhere between 2:30 - god knows how many hours with a single crash, I’m sure people do it without stopping but that’s probably why so many people crash. Still a doable distance in a taycan, close, unless you could charge when you got there which I would assume most places you can even with a 3 pin plug.
DonkeyApple said:
SWoll said:
Cotswolds to London and back is easily achievable in a Taycan or many other EV's without needing to hypermile or charge. Your regular 100-140 mile trips would be possible driving in whatever fashion you want all year around and I'm not convinced everyone is quite as reluctant as you are to stop for 15 minutes at a service station even if the distances were twice that.
Really not seeing the problem.
Apart from the fact that it isn't. And apart from the fact that people really don't like to break their journey if they don't have to. Really not seeing the problem.
Nickbrapp said:
DonkeyApple said:
But again, London to Cornwall tends to be a one way journey so not so pertinent as the more common round trip in a day event, things like Brum to London and back. No need at all to stop for a break on that journey so if in the market for £100k cars few are going to entertain the hassle of suddenly having to introducing hanging out with fag ash Lil or fannying about with specialist parking.
London to Birmingham is anywhere between 120-170 miles and anywhere between 2:30 - god knows how many hours with a single crash, I’m sure people do it without stopping but that’s probably why so many people crash. Still a doable distance in a taycan, close, unless you could charge when you got there which I would assume most places you can even with a 3 pin plug.
The simple fact is that people can try and delude themselves of reality with anomalous examples of long distance, one way journies, or some massive cultural change that apparently sees people with money suddenly keen to hang out at fast food destinations with hoards of fat smokers outside and arcades and junk vendors inside, or that the most common linger distance journey is the intra day round trip but the reality is different. It is the intra day round trip that is far more common and people who buy premium vehicles don't want to add fannying about to their journey and a massive GT shaped, high performance car with a Porsche badge does have a problem if using it as such a vehicle means not actually being able to complete a basic round trip without stopping to watch TV in a car park for half an hour.
That's why the Tesla product is superior, despite being so badly built by comparison. For the same price it has a range that does easily allow those intra day round trips without any hideous inconveniences of having to stop or having to go to a specific location or take a specific route. And it's also a big, boring saloon and not masquerading as a high performance, continent crushing GT which can't do any of that unless the owner coincidentally happens to have a long term bladder infection.
The Taycan, like the Audi products are suburban to urban runabouts pretending to be long distance, high speed luxo barges and GTs. Unlike the Tesla and all the smaller EVs which actually work in the environment that they are marketed at.
SWoll said:
DonkeyApple said:
SWoll said:
Cotswolds to London and back is easily achievable in a Taycan or many other EV's without needing to hypermile or charge. Your regular 100-140 mile trips would be possible driving in whatever fashion you want all year around and I'm not convinced everyone is quite as reluctant as you are to stop for 15 minutes at a service station even if the distances were twice that.
Really not seeing the problem.
Apart from the fact that it isn't. And apart from the fact that people really don't like to break their journey if they don't have to. Really not seeing the problem.
You are proposing a fantasy world based on a number from Google Maps as opposed to facing reality.
Ironically, when my parents emigrated from London it was to Painswick and I ended up running that journey regularly from Hampstead and know the main routes well enough and the potential for delays to categorically inform you that on planet Earth you wouldn't opt for a Taycan if you were doing that regularly. Likewise, I now run into central London from near Moreton in Marsh. That shorter at 90 miles but again, using a performance GT EV as a performance GT isn't possible. Even the Tesla's you see joining or leaving the Oxford junction from ot too London are pottering. No one buys a Porsche to potter or have their freedoms curtailed or to be forced to hang out with people of lesser social standing. That's why something like the Taycan, as lovely as it is, ultimately is a bit of a fraud as it's looks, marketing, performance etc are writing cheques that it simply can't cash.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Thursday 8th April 09:45
DonkeyApple said:
SWoll said:
DonkeyApple said:
SWoll said:
Cotswolds to London and back is easily achievable in a Taycan or many other EV's without needing to hypermile or charge. Your regular 100-140 mile trips would be possible driving in whatever fashion you want all year around and I'm not convinced everyone is quite as reluctant as you are to stop for 15 minutes at a service station even if the distances were twice that.
Really not seeing the problem.
Apart from the fact that it isn't. And apart from the fact that people really don't like to break their journey if they don't have to. Really not seeing the problem.
You are proposing a fantasy world based on a number from Google Maps as opposed to facing reality.
You may struggle if driving like a berk on a particularly cold winter day I grant you but for the rest of the year it's not going to be an issue. The Taycan's WLTP range is understated as mentioned earlier.
If you keep adding more and more hurdles then of course eventually you will get to a point where a 15 minute charge stop will be required, but again hardly the end of the world if you are determined to do 'spirited driving' for the entire trip?
SWoll said:
I take it that's based on your extensive experience of driving a high performance EV over an extended period and many different trips?
You may struggle if driving like a berk on a particularly cold winter day I grant you but for the rest of the year it's not going to be an issue. The Taycan's WLTP range is understated as mentioned earlier.
If you keep adding more and more hurdles then of course eventually you will get to a point where a 15 minute charge stop will be required, but again hardly the end of the world if you are determined to do 'spirited driving' for the entire trip?
Correct. It is based on direct experience because to get into the centre of London an EV has distinct advantages as well advantages for local use. At present only a Tesla S fits the bill of allowing that with ease, not having to stop, detour, change driving style or seek special parking. The Taycan doesn't and the key point here that is being made is that it is a product whose image and intent overtly clashes with reality. Having now done the journey in both cars I am of the same opinion as the other people who live in the two locations that the Tesla is currently the only EV that allows a seemless switch and isn't pretending to be something it isn't. You may struggle if driving like a berk on a particularly cold winter day I grant you but for the rest of the year it's not going to be an issue. The Taycan's WLTP range is understated as mentioned earlier.
If you keep adding more and more hurdles then of course eventually you will get to a point where a 15 minute charge stop will be required, but again hardly the end of the world if you are determined to do 'spirited driving' for the entire trip?
DonkeyApple said:
Even the Tesla's you see joining or leaving the Oxford junction from ot too London are pottering.
One effect i have noticed after 5 years of EV ownership is that one tends to slow down a bit on motorways! This is because an EV highlights just how "wasteful" it is going fast, especially when you look at the minimal effect on the overall journey time. An ICE is so inefficient it effectively hides just how much more power it takes as you try to push more and more air out of the way as speed climbs. In fact, aero drag is the cube of speed, so small increases in speed really start to consume significantly more energy.
It's better ime, to keep the average speed high by good observation, planning and carrying speed, rather than dawdling along then flooring it down the straight bits!
DonkeyApple said:
Nickbrapp said:
DonkeyApple said:
But again, London to Cornwall tends to be a one way journey so not so pertinent as the more common round trip in a day event, things like Brum to London and back. No need at all to stop for a break on that journey so if in the market for £100k cars few are going to entertain the hassle of suddenly having to introducing hanging out with fag ash Lil or fannying about with specialist parking.
London to Birmingham is anywhere between 120-170 miles and anywhere between 2:30 - god knows how many hours with a single crash, I’m sure people do it without stopping but that’s probably why so many people crash. Still a doable distance in a taycan, close, unless you could charge when you got there which I would assume most places you can even with a 3 pin plug.
The simple fact is that people can try and delude themselves of reality with anomalous examples of long distance, one way journies, or some massive cultural change that apparently sees people with money suddenly keen to hang out at fast food destinations with hoards of fat smokers outside and arcades and junk vendors inside, or that the most common linger distance journey is the intra day round trip but the reality is different. It is the intra day round trip that is far more common and people who buy premium vehicles don't want to add fannying about to their journey and a massive GT shaped, high performance car with a Porsche badge does have a problem if using it as such a vehicle means not actually being able to complete a basic round trip without stopping to watch TV in a car park for half an hour.
That's why the Tesla product is superior, despite being so badly built by comparison. For the same price it has a range that does easily allow those intra day round trips without any hideous inconveniences of having to stop or having to go to a specific location or take a specific route. And it's also a big, boring saloon and not masquerading as a high performance, continent crushing GT which can't do any of that unless the owner coincidentally happens to have a long term bladder infection.
The Taycan, like the Audi products are suburban to urban runabouts pretending to be long distance, high speed luxo barges and GTs. Unlike the Tesla and all the smaller EVs which actually work in the environment that they are marketed at.
On that I was pleasantly surprised to find out last weekend that parking is free in a lot of places if you use the electric Charging point whilst parking.
There's a really simple solution to you not thinking an EV is fit for purpose - don't buy one.
I've recently bought an EV and am really liking it. It takes only a couple of days to think that having to go somewhere to top-up with fuel a ludicrous idea.
However I am just a suburban potterer and will probably never plan to charge anywhere but at home.
At the moment charging points are a sketchy business. Apps may show thousands of chargers available but when you drill down, a lot of these are in some odd places. Even private homes. And there is absolutely no guarantee that the charger is a) there, b) working c) being used by someone who may be gone hours. Motorway services and other big setups are a good bet, but outside of that you literally don't know what you are going to find.
If you read the reviews of various charging points it doesn't make good reading. My local charging station, in a small shopping centre, was out for months before being fixed. When you go to a petrol station for petrol you'll be really unlucky to come away without fuel. At a charging station - not so.
So I think EVs and the facilities are almost there. But I would not be buying one as an only-car at the moment.
However I am just a suburban potterer and will probably never plan to charge anywhere but at home.
At the moment charging points are a sketchy business. Apps may show thousands of chargers available but when you drill down, a lot of these are in some odd places. Even private homes. And there is absolutely no guarantee that the charger is a) there, b) working c) being used by someone who may be gone hours. Motorway services and other big setups are a good bet, but outside of that you literally don't know what you are going to find.
If you read the reviews of various charging points it doesn't make good reading. My local charging station, in a small shopping centre, was out for months before being fixed. When you go to a petrol station for petrol you'll be really unlucky to come away without fuel. At a charging station - not so.
So I think EVs and the facilities are almost there. But I would not be buying one as an only-car at the moment.
Max_Torque said:
One effect i have noticed after 5 years of EV ownership is that one tends to slow down a bit on motorways!
This is because an EV highlights just how "wasteful" it is going fast, especially when you look at the minimal effect on the overall journey time. An ICE is so inefficient it effectively hides just how much more power it takes as you try to push more and more air out of the way as speed climbs. In fact, aero drag is the cube of speed, so small increases in speed really start to consume significantly more energy.
It's better ime, to keep the average speed high by good observation, planning and carrying speed, rather than dawdling along then flooring it down the straight bits!
Yup. You've always been able to massively increase economy just by looking and thinking ahead. But as you say, the way EVs are powered does show just how much energy you're using at 90 than 60 but the real issue at this moment in time is that in an ICE luxo barge you can hurl all that energy away and not incur any time penalty or inconvenience at all, whereas in the EV version you get a massive kick in the nuts instead of just throwing a bit more money down the drain. This is because an EV highlights just how "wasteful" it is going fast, especially when you look at the minimal effect on the overall journey time. An ICE is so inefficient it effectively hides just how much more power it takes as you try to push more and more air out of the way as speed climbs. In fact, aero drag is the cube of speed, so small increases in speed really start to consume significantly more energy.
It's better ime, to keep the average speed high by good observation, planning and carrying speed, rather than dawdling along then flooring it down the straight bits!
For the regular round trip, once you have to stop en route then there's little reason to pay £100k for a big barge over £40k for something like an i3 etc.
SWoll said:
You do talk rubbish at times. Let's pick Stroud as a reasonably westerly point in the Cotswolds. 100 or so miles to central London, perfectly do-able as a roundtrip without any charging or hypermiling. Even Bath or Cheltenham are within range.
Most of the opinions are just that... opinions. Opinions from people that have never owned an EV.I have petrol cars as well as a Tesla. The Tesla offers me exactly the same range experience as a petrol car - but cheaper and easier. It's full of volts every morning and I am totally relaxed about any 250 mile day. Anything longer needs no more than 20 minutes in a Tesla supercharging station - of which there are over 500 in the UK. Very easy, very cheap. Or use one of the 2,000+ slower charging stations for 40 minutes - but you'd never need to do that.
At the end of the day, it's just a car. But happens to be quite an easy one to own.
chrispmartha said:
Specialist parking?
On that I was pleasantly surprised to find out last weekend that parking is free in a lot of places if you use the electric Charging point whilst parking.
There's a really simple solution to you not thinking an EV is fit for purpose - don't buy one.
Try reading. I'm not anti EV. I think I've made that rather clear. I'm discussing a particular aspect of a particular EV. Something that has very clearly gone right over your little, bigoted bonce. On that I was pleasantly surprised to find out last weekend that parking is free in a lot of places if you use the electric Charging point whilst parking.
There's a really simple solution to you not thinking an EV is fit for purpose - don't buy one.
swisstoni said:
I've recently bought an EV and am really liking it. It takes only a couple of days to think that having to go somewhere to top-up with fuel a ludicrous idea.
However I am just a suburban potterer and will probably never plan to charge anywhere but at home.
At the moment charging points are a sketchy business. Apps may show thousands of chargers available but when you drill down, a lot of these are in some odd places. Even private homes. And there is absolutely no guarantee that the charger is a) there, b) working c) being used by someone who may be gone hours. Motorway services and other big setups are a good bet, but outside of that you literally don't know what you are going to find.
If you read the reviews of various charging points it doesn't make good reading. My local charging station, in a small shopping centre, was out for months before being fixed. When you go to a petrol station for petrol you'll be really unlucky to come away without fuel. At a charging station - not so.
So I think EVs and the facilities are almost there. But I would not be buying one as an only-car at the moment.
Yup. It's not really 'almost' there for many but in reality already perfectly feasible for a very large number given the number of local pottering cars on driveways. It's really just the core economics of people not needing to change yet or wanting to pay the amounts needed but around 10% of new cars this year will be EVs and that number will steadily increase. At the same time the number of different EVs available is going to grow. There's already a reasonable choice in the local pottering sector which is where they genuinely work. However I am just a suburban potterer and will probably never plan to charge anywhere but at home.
At the moment charging points are a sketchy business. Apps may show thousands of chargers available but when you drill down, a lot of these are in some odd places. Even private homes. And there is absolutely no guarantee that the charger is a) there, b) working c) being used by someone who may be gone hours. Motorway services and other big setups are a good bet, but outside of that you literally don't know what you are going to find.
If you read the reviews of various charging points it doesn't make good reading. My local charging station, in a small shopping centre, was out for months before being fixed. When you go to a petrol station for petrol you'll be really unlucky to come away without fuel. At a charging station - not so.
So I think EVs and the facilities are almost there. But I would not be buying one as an only-car at the moment.
DonkeyApple said:
chrispmartha said:
Specialist parking?
On that I was pleasantly surprised to find out last weekend that parking is free in a lot of places if you use the electric Charging point whilst parking.
There's a really simple solution to you not thinking an EV is fit for purpose - don't buy one.
Try reading. I'm not anti EV. I think I've made that rather clear. I'm discussing a particular aspect of a particular EV. Something that has very clearly gone right over your little, bigoted bonce. On that I was pleasantly surprised to find out last weekend that parking is free in a lot of places if you use the electric Charging point whilst parking.
There's a really simple solution to you not thinking an EV is fit for purpose - don't buy one.
It's just a car FFS. The point I was making is what is specialist parking, a lot of carparks have EV charging points now there's not much specialist about them anymore.
chrispmartha said:
Bigoted?
It's just a car FFS. The point I was making is what is specialist parking, a lot of carparks have EV charging points now there's not much specialist about them anymore.
Lots do. Lots don't and few parking bays do. The fact remains that parking with power remains specialist when seeking to park in central London and requires consideration to the point that and here is the exact point that I have been making, if you're buying a £100k bahn stormer then you are generally not living the sort of lifestyle where you want to buy in inconvenience but instead the opposite, you want your money to buy you convenience. It's just a car FFS. The point I was making is what is specialist parking, a lot of carparks have EV charging points now there's not much specialist about them anymore.
Nothing that I am talking about is an anti EV thing. Nothing at all and this seems to have a few people terrible confused as they cannot fathom how someone can be critical of one single aspect of one single model of EV and somehow not be anti the whole thing. It's the footballist mindset at play.
The key here is that while people weirdly froth about anomalously long journeys that people might do once a year but in reality, if you have the income to buy a £100k car you're really going to be in the group that would use a plane for those sorts of journeys. There is a total misunderstanding by the fans of hanging out at motorway services as there is among those who drive 5 miles a day and say an EV doesn't work for them.
Sanity and common sense lies between those two sets of loons. The most common linger trip is the day trip where one might drive 80-100 miles to a destination, drive around while there and then drive home. And here is the key: without having to stop en route either there or back, without having to plan your route like some retired accountant and without having where you park at your destination narrowed down. You can do that with a Tesla. Their charging network is largely irrelevant. The key to their product is that it doesn't put any kind of usage restrictions on you and in fact, with regards to central London, opens up a few usage benefits. It's an EV that you can day trip in and never once have to concern yourself about refuelling.
Now flip to the Taycan. That luxury isn't there. It's lower Range puts you squarely into needing to change and it removes convenience. With a cheaper EV that's less of an issue and you'll find more consumers who are use to inconvenience in their life, used to having what they can do and where they can go curtailed and may even not mind hanging out at motorway services or excitedly plotting a route. But the Taycan is trying to sell to people who expect convenience, don't tollerate restrictions and on top of that it's being pitched as a sporty GT, a car designed to travel long distances at high speeds. The Panamera does just that. It's a continent crushing, luxurious and high performance GT. The Taycan is sitting there claiming to be the same but it's a big fat lie. The reality is that it has more the usability of an i3 but unlike the i3 which isn't pretending to be anything it isn't the Taycan is actually a fraud.
That is the point. I don't expect everyone to understand the nuances at play here nor do I expect EV evangelists to be able to compute that someone who likes EVs doesn't like a particular aspect of a particular product but there will be regular buyers of £100k+ cars that they use for family duties, day trips and joining when they can who will understand the point being made that the Taycan is pitching itself at that segment but doesn't deliver.
DonkeyApple said:
Lots do. Lots don't and few parking bays do. The fact remains that parking with power remains specialist when seeking to park in central London and requires consideration to the point that and here is the exact point that I have been making, if you're buying a £100k bahn stormer then you are generally not living the sort of lifestyle where you want to buy in inconvenience but instead the opposite, you want your money to buy you convenience.
Nothing that I am talking about is an anti EV thing. Nothing at all and this seems to have a few people terrible confused as they cannot fathom how someone can be critical of one single aspect of one single model of EV and somehow not be anti the whole thing. It's the footballist mindset at play.
The key here is that while people weirdly froth about anomalously long journeys that people might do once a year but in reality, if you have the income to buy a £100k car you're really going to be in the group that would use a plane for those sorts of journeys. There is a total misunderstanding by the fans of hanging out at motorway services as there is among those who drive 5 miles a day and say an EV doesn't work for them.
Sanity and common sense lies between those two sets of loons. The most common linger trip is the day trip where one might drive 80-100 miles to a destination, drive around while there and then drive home. And here is the key: without having to stop en route either there or back, without having to plan your route like some retired accountant and without having where you park at your destination narrowed down. You can do that with a Tesla. Their charging network is largely irrelevant. The key to their product is that it doesn't put any kind of usage restrictions on you and in fact, with regards to central London, opens up a few usage benefits. It's an EV that you can day trip in and never once have to concern yourself about refuelling.
Now flip to the Taycan. That luxury isn't there. It's lower Range puts you squarely into needing to change and it removes convenience. With a cheaper EV that's less of an issue and you'll find more consumers who are use to inconvenience in their life, used to having what they can do and where they can go curtailed and may even not mind hanging out at motorway services or excitedly plotting a route. But the Taycan is trying to sell to people who expect convenience, don't tollerate restrictions and on top of that it's being pitched as a sporty GT, a car designed to travel long distances at high speeds. The Panamera does just that. It's a continent crushing, luxurious and high performance GT. The Taycan is sitting there claiming to be the same but it's a big fat lie. The reality is that it has more the usability of an i3 but unlike the i3 which isn't pretending to be anything it isn't the Taycan is actually a fraud.
That is the point. I don't expect everyone to understand the nuances at play here nor do I expect EV evangelists to be able to compute that someone who likes EVs doesn't like a particular aspect of a particular product but there will be regular buyers of £100k+ cars that they use for family duties, day trips and joining when they can who will understand the point being made that the Taycan is pitching itself at that segment but doesn't deliver.
Another saga. 10 posts a day for the last 11 years, don’t you have anything else to do?Nothing that I am talking about is an anti EV thing. Nothing at all and this seems to have a few people terrible confused as they cannot fathom how someone can be critical of one single aspect of one single model of EV and somehow not be anti the whole thing. It's the footballist mindset at play.
The key here is that while people weirdly froth about anomalously long journeys that people might do once a year but in reality, if you have the income to buy a £100k car you're really going to be in the group that would use a plane for those sorts of journeys. There is a total misunderstanding by the fans of hanging out at motorway services as there is among those who drive 5 miles a day and say an EV doesn't work for them.
Sanity and common sense lies between those two sets of loons. The most common linger trip is the day trip where one might drive 80-100 miles to a destination, drive around while there and then drive home. And here is the key: without having to stop en route either there or back, without having to plan your route like some retired accountant and without having where you park at your destination narrowed down. You can do that with a Tesla. Their charging network is largely irrelevant. The key to their product is that it doesn't put any kind of usage restrictions on you and in fact, with regards to central London, opens up a few usage benefits. It's an EV that you can day trip in and never once have to concern yourself about refuelling.
Now flip to the Taycan. That luxury isn't there. It's lower Range puts you squarely into needing to change and it removes convenience. With a cheaper EV that's less of an issue and you'll find more consumers who are use to inconvenience in their life, used to having what they can do and where they can go curtailed and may even not mind hanging out at motorway services or excitedly plotting a route. But the Taycan is trying to sell to people who expect convenience, don't tollerate restrictions and on top of that it's being pitched as a sporty GT, a car designed to travel long distances at high speeds. The Panamera does just that. It's a continent crushing, luxurious and high performance GT. The Taycan is sitting there claiming to be the same but it's a big fat lie. The reality is that it has more the usability of an i3 but unlike the i3 which isn't pretending to be anything it isn't the Taycan is actually a fraud.
That is the point. I don't expect everyone to understand the nuances at play here nor do I expect EV evangelists to be able to compute that someone who likes EVs doesn't like a particular aspect of a particular product but there will be regular buyers of £100k+ cars that they use for family duties, day trips and joining when they can who will understand the point being made that the Taycan is pitching itself at that segment but doesn't deliver.
DonkeyApple said:
chrispmartha said:
Bigoted?
It's just a car FFS. The point I was making is what is specialist parking, a lot of carparks have EV charging points now there's not much specialist about them anymore.
Lots do. Lots don't and few parking bays do. The fact remains that parking with power remains specialist when seeking to park in central London and requires consideration to the point that and here is the exact point that I have been making, if you're buying a £100k bahn stormer then you are generally not living the sort of lifestyle where you want to buy in inconvenience but instead the opposite, you want your money to buy you convenience. It's just a car FFS. The point I was making is what is specialist parking, a lot of carparks have EV charging points now there's not much specialist about them anymore.
Nothing that I am talking about is an anti EV thing. Nothing at all and this seems to have a few people terrible confused as they cannot fathom how someone can be critical of one single aspect of one single model of EV and somehow not be anti the whole thing. It's the footballist mindset at play.
The key here is that while people weirdly froth about anomalously long journeys that people might do once a year but in reality, if you have the income to buy a £100k car you're really going to be in the group that would use a plane for those sorts of journeys. There is a total misunderstanding by the fans of hanging out at motorway services as there is among those who drive 5 miles a day and say an EV doesn't work for them.
Sanity and common sense lies between those two sets of loons. The most common linger trip is the day trip where one might drive 80-100 miles to a destination, drive around while there and then drive home. And here is the key: without having to stop en route either there or back, without having to plan your route like some retired accountant and without having where you park at your destination narrowed down. You can do that with a Tesla. Their charging network is largely irrelevant. The key to their product is that it doesn't put any kind of usage restrictions on you and in fact, with regards to central London, opens up a few usage benefits. It's an EV that you can day trip in and never once have to concern yourself about refuelling.
Now flip to the Taycan. That luxury isn't there. It's lower Range puts you squarely into needing to change and it removes convenience. With a cheaper EV that's less of an issue and you'll find more consumers who are use to inconvenience in their life, used to having what they can do and where they can go curtailed and may even not mind hanging out at motorway services or excitedly plotting a route. But the Taycan is trying to sell to people who expect convenience, don't tollerate restrictions and on top of that it's being pitched as a sporty GT, a car designed to travel long distances at high speeds. The Panamera does just that. It's a continent crushing, luxurious and high performance GT. The Taycan is sitting there claiming to be the same but it's a big fat lie. The reality is that it has more the usability of an i3 but unlike the i3 which isn't pretending to be anything it isn't the Taycan is actually a fraud.
That is the point. I don't expect everyone to understand the nuances at play here nor do I expect EV evangelists to be able to compute that someone who likes EVs doesn't like a particular aspect of a particular product but there will be regular buyers of £100k+ cars that they use for family duties, day trips and joining when they can who will understand the point being made that the Taycan is pitching itself at that segment but doesn't deliver.
Fine, don’t buy one then, not sure why you need to throw words like Bigot around. There are plenty of people that obviously don’t share your view that the range is an issue id say bar Teslas its one of the EVs I see the most.
Yes the charging network needs improvement but you seem to be suggesting a 200mile trip is some kind of major inconvenience or not possible when it clearly is.
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