RE: GMA reveals 725hp T.50s 'Niki Lauda'

RE: GMA reveals 725hp T.50s 'Niki Lauda'

Author
Discussion

MissChief

5,691 posts

131 months

Monday 22nd February
quotequote all
A true McLaren F1 successor. Now just put it into the Hypercar class at Le Mans please.

Chris C2

44 posts

12 months

Monday 22nd February
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Proper job - although not sure about the tiny dash and cumbersome switch panel.

FlukePlay

303 posts

108 months

Monday 22nd February
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Murray is pure genius...he reached legend status with the F1, this goes beyond.

Can someone clarify the text 'and comes with promise of even faster reactions to the 28,000 revs per second possible in the T.50.' ?

The T.50 was first revealed in June 2019 and delivery expected in 2022...a timeline of 3 years. At TVR they are still trying to fix the roof.


Sandpit Steve

2,413 posts

37 months

Monday 22nd February
quotequote all
FlukePlay said:
Murray is pure genius...he reached legend status with the F1, this goes beyond.

Can someone clarify the text 'and comes with promise of even faster reactions to the 28,000 revs per second possible in the T.50.' ?

The T.50 was first revealed in June 2019 and delivery expected in 2022...a timeline of 3 years. At TVR they are still trying to fix the roof.
The 28,000 revs per second, is the change in revs in neutral when hitting the throttle.

It hits the limiter from idle in under half a second, the engine has less intertia that any other road car engine. This one is even faster by the same measure.

p1stonhead

24,611 posts

130 months

Monday 22nd February
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That rear diffuser is absurd!

Looks the nuts.

Max_Torque

16,203 posts

180 months

Monday 22nd February
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GMD said:
Drivers of a "good amateur" level should quickly feel comfortable edging their 725hp machine close to its limit.
really? I have some experience in this area (having worked on a fair number of rather high performance road at track cars, like the Mclaren P1/P1GTR and race cars specifically designed for "good amateurs" such as the AMR DBR9 etc

And, i can tell you, driving a full on aero assisted car, ie one with a ratio of over 1:1 (825kg mass, 1,000 kg aero) is not something that many "good amateurs" i have ever met and seen driven quickly feel comfortable with. At that ratio, should you loss downforce for any reasons, from a hitting a bump to poor driving and touchning a kerb or having the suspension not set absolutely perfectly for the track you are on, your are off, because you are suddenly going TWICE as fast as the car could corner with purely mechanical grip. And no one gets back from there, not even the likes of Hamilton or Senna. Watch the F1 accidents, that is the level at which we are talking for a car with more than 1:1 aero assistance!

The P1 GTR was 1,455 kg mass and a maximum of around 700kg of downforce a ratio 1:0.5 and that was,ime, too much for the majority of drivers to deal with.......

The problem is, when it goes wrong, we are talking about energies that are significant, in fact, life threatening, and killing your customers is something most companies try to avoid in general.

We have been here before of course, as the short lived Caparo T1 showed, that just because you can, doesn't mean you should, and engineers can today easily build a car that is simply too much for most people

Max_Torque

16,203 posts

180 months

Monday 22nd February
quotequote all
Sandpit Steve said:
FlukePlay said:
Murray is pure genius...he reached legend status with the F1, this goes beyond.

Can someone clarify the text 'and comes with promise of even faster reactions to the 28,000 revs per second possible in the T.50.' ?

The T.50 was first revealed in June 2019 and delivery expected in 2022...a timeline of 3 years. At TVR they are still trying to fix the roof.
The 28,000 revs per second, is the change in revs in neutral when hitting the throttle.

It hits the limiter from idle in under half a second, the engine has less intertia that any other road car engine. This one is even faster by the same measure.
For reference, it's half as responsive as the electric motor in a nissan leaf..... lol!


and about half as responsive as a pukka F1 engine that manages about 50,000 rpm /sec. It's also an almost entirely meanigless statistic for a road car, as you never rev the car in neutral (unless showing off to your mates outside the pub ;-) it's important in a race car because engine inertia dominates gearbox durability, but in road car, and a manual road car at that, it just makes it really, really hard to drive smoothly

Sandpit Steve

2,413 posts

37 months

Monday 22nd February
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
For reference, it's half as responsive as the electric motor in a nissan leaf..... lol!


and about half as responsive as a pukka F1 engine that manages about 50,000 rpm /sec. It's also an almost entirely meanigless statistic for a road car, as you never rev the car in neutral (unless showing off to your mates outside the pub ;-) it's important in a race car because engine inertia dominates gearbox durability, but in road car, and a manual road car at that, it just makes it really, really hard to drive smoothly
Oh, agreed. I’ve driven a car with a lightened flywheel before, and it was a pain in the arse to change gear unless you were properly ‘on it’, which of course in a road car is hardly ever. Required a fair bit of practice to rev match the upshifts, let alone the downshifts!

jontysafe

2,213 posts

141 months

Monday 22nd February
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Also means idle had to be high which means driving in stop start traffic is tricky and tiring in a manual gearbox equipped car.

loudlashadjuster

3,894 posts

147 months

Monday 22nd February
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smilo996 said:
The rear is very odd. The lifted rear bodywork, showing off that rubber and those one / two enormous rear diffuser(s)
Oh, I dunno, there's something about that look which...works


Summit_Detailing

1,423 posts

156 months

Monday 22nd February
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Wow! That is obscene...in a good way obviously!

RemarkLima

1,008 posts

175 months

Monday 22nd February
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When I first read about this project, the T.50, it seemed a bit of a Gordon Murray geek-off - just daft things like perfect switches and nonsense like that... Seemed waaay to up ones own bottom.

But then I listened to the podcast here: https://collectingcars.com/podcasts/ (Search for the Gordon Murray one - episode 24).

Not only an excellent interview by Chris Harris, and Gordon Murray explaining some of the mad stuff of F1 back then, and some other random / cool bits, but really made me think just how cool the T.50 is going to be, and would be an absolute must have if I could ever afford one! Some of it is a geek fest, but so much of the focus on the driving and feedback, down to the power steering only kicking in at low speeds and then disconnecting afterwards for a proper uncorrupted steering.

From this, I'd say the T.50s is going to pretty epic.

Sixpackpert

4,185 posts

177 months

Monday 22nd February
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https://youtu.be/MpWl8wtg8pc

Latest Harry’s Garage features it.

The Hypno-Toad

10,423 posts

168 months

Monday 22nd February
quotequote all
That is epic. If the Euromillions comes up tomorrow, I will be round to see Mr Murray to see if there are left.

Still not sure about that fan though....

Max_Torque

16,203 posts

180 months

Monday 22nd February
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jontysafe said:
Also means idle had to be high which means driving in stop start traffic is tricky and tiring in a manual gearbox equipped car.
Idle has to be high to stop the crank snapping into a couple of peices in ultra low inertia (hence ultralow mass), but high BMEP engines!

(ie the fundamental torsional vibration frequency mode is likely to be inside the potential operating area for the engine.....)

ducnick

1,106 posts

206 months

Monday 22nd February
quotequote all
loudlashadjuster said:
smilo996 said:
The rear is very odd. The lifted rear bodywork, showing off that rubber and those one / two enormous rear diffuser(s)
Oh, I dunno, there's something about that look which...works

It’s a good point. How much does a 917 or 512M cost? How much does a competitive group C car cost? Would you prefer one of these as a dedicated track car, or the GMA?

Gameface

15,941 posts

40 months

Monday 22nd February
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852kgs. That's absolutely incredible. What a thing!

Sway

17,495 posts

157 months

Monday 22nd February
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
Sandpit Steve said:
FlukePlay said:
Murray is pure genius...he reached legend status with the F1, this goes beyond.

Can someone clarify the text 'and comes with promise of even faster reactions to the 28,000 revs per second possible in the T.50.' ?

The T.50 was first revealed in June 2019 and delivery expected in 2022...a timeline of 3 years. At TVR they are still trying to fix the roof.
The 28,000 revs per second, is the change in revs in neutral when hitting the throttle.

It hits the limiter from idle in under half a second, the engine has less intertia that any other road car engine. This one is even faster by the same measure.
For reference, it's half as responsive as the electric motor in a nissan leaf..... lol!


and about half as responsive as a pukka F1 engine that manages about 50,000 rpm /sec. It's also an almost entirely meanigless statistic for a road car, as you never rev the car in neutral (unless showing off to your mates outside the pub ;-) it's important in a race car because engine inertia dominates gearbox durability, but in road car, and a manual road car at that, it just makes it really, really hard to drive smoothly
Or half as responsive as the ISG, which can help rev match and overall smoothness presumably? Plus permits the zingy neutral revving outside the pub...

Lee Jones Jnr

873 posts

133 months

Monday 22nd February
quotequote all
andyj007 said:
This shows up Mclaren as just wanabees. This is how you do it lads.. take note....
Fq me, what a foolish thing to say.

PhantomPH

3,567 posts

188 months

Monday 22nd February
quotequote all
He's actually managed to make the road version look a little underwhelming before it's even in customers' hands. smile I'd LOVE to have seen the rear from the 's' on the road version. The wing, high-cut rear, F1-style fin...they look awesome!

If I'd been lucky enough (in life) to be one of those with a road version on order, I'd be feeling a little flat now...like when I was a kid and got a radio controlled car and my mate got a better one. I still loved mine but...you know...his was cooler. frown