Downcast about EVs

Downcast about EVs

Author
Discussion

tommy1973s

Original Poster:

721 posts

135 months

Saturday 27th February
quotequote all
The end of ICE is a first World problem, agreed. Nonetheless, while self driving battery cars will suit many, I couldn't care less. I was reading Autocar today and lots of the coverage is EVs. I've talked myself into gloom about it.

It's like you've been buying a football magazine all your life, and then, without telling you, they convert it to golf or something. Or lacrosse. Whatever that is.

Just soulless transport pods.

I'm excited about battery powered self flying personal planes alright. The excitement of being airborne, despite having no flying skills, would compensate.

But for cars, the trend is inexorably towards ever-increasing boredom and passivity. Just sitting there, doing SFA. It'd be like if they banned skiing and made you ride up and down on the chair lifts instead. Quicker, easier, and safer - but no fun.

Sighs : )

craigjm

12,051 posts

164 months

Saturday 27th February
quotequote all
Are you over 40? If so then just make sure you have the ice cars you want in 2030ish and keep driving them. Fuel won’t be banned until 2050 by which time anyone born in the 70s or earlier will have hung up their driving gloves or shuffled off.

Krikkit

20,985 posts

145 months

Saturday 27th February
quotequote all
tommy1973s said:
I'm excited about battery powered self flying personal planes alright. The excitement of being airborne, despite having no flying skills, would compensate.
Not gonna happen in your lifetime, don't get too excited.

Crafty_

12,738 posts

164 months

Saturday 27th February
quotequote all
EVs are only an extension of what we have now in terms of mediocrity. The times of cars having an interesting trait or design are (mostly) behind us, cars share a lot of tech nowadays and have narrow design briefs, so they all look the same and offer more or less the same things. I agree though it feels like EV will make everything more anonymous and bland.

For people who purely use a car to get A -> B, an EV makes no difference to them, they can get to work or the shops etc just fine, so why not.

Lets just hope that people who want to keep a toy/classic won't get victimised post 2030 for killing all the fluffy bunnies. Lets presume for a moment the effect those remaining cars will have on the environment will be negligible I don't think it will stop an agenda to force them off the road should politicians/green groups decide to target them - even if there are bigger fish to fry pollution wise.

In the wider picture I think as time progresses younger people will be geniunely baffled by the concept of a car enthusiast in the latter half of the 20th century/early 21st century.
Gradually "performance" models will just become trim levels, because people won't be prepared to pay premiums for an EV with an extra n kW output.
Boggo EVs are going to be more than capable of "making progress", especially off the line due to the instant torque as we've all already seen - so what can a performance model provide ?
How long will manufacturers dump big money in to motorsports if we all end up just buying cars as white goods (or more accurately, leasing).

As much as EVs will be (are?) a tech revolution they'll be a cultural one too.

The way I see it at the moment is I'll end up in an EV but it won't interest me in the slightest and I'll just end up buying whatever does the job rather than having any interest or affection for the thing, just like the washing machine really.

Edited by Crafty_ on Saturday 27th February 22:39

jjwilde

1,904 posts

60 months

Saturday 27th February
quotequote all
Krikkit said:
tommy1973s said:
I'm excited about battery powered self flying personal planes alright. The excitement of being airborne, despite having no flying skills, would compensate.
Not gonna happen in your lifetime, don't get too excited.
Drones which fly people are a huge emerging industry right now, billions being invested. Could have the potential to change every day life in amazing ways.

Andeh1

6,382 posts

170 months

Saturday 27th February
quotequote all
Have you ever actually driven an equivalent EV to your ICE car of choice?

Impossibly low centre of gravity, mind blowingly fast linear acceleration, silence only broken by intense motor whine, never needing to visit a petrol station again...

Is like going to from s*x to a blow job... Very very different... But absolutely not in a bad way!!

Edited by Andeh1 on Saturday 27th February 22:31

kambites

61,021 posts

185 months

Saturday 27th February
quotequote all
Crafty_ said:
EVs are only an extension of what we have now in terms of mediocrity.
yes 99% of modern internal combustion engines are so utterly bland and uninspiring that I can only see an electric drive-train as a step forwards for mainstream cars.

MikeStroud

2,784 posts

58 months

Saturday 27th February
quotequote all
I will miss the sound of a V8 etc but:

1 - I am looking forward to less traffic noise as I live near an A road.

2 - I was exceptionally poor for the first part of my life and my cars were £90 jobbies that came with an MoT from someone in a pub ( as they did years ago). Aside from being rust bucket death traps they were exceptionally unreliable. I'm looking forward to all the crap that made my life hell for many years being consigned to history: water pumps, belts, fuel pumps, spark plugs, (points - Ok I know they are history already), HT leads, gaskets, oil pumps, dirt in the fuel/carb etc etc etc. I expect EV cars will have a new set of issues but there have to be far fewer of them than you get with an ICE.

So the old part of me will miss ICE but in reality I think it's a good thing.

J4CKO

33,403 posts

164 months

Saturday 27th February
quotequote all
Main thing is getting where you want to go and aiming something between corners, having a noisy engine is part it, but not all of it.

Internal Combustion Engine don't have a soul, they just make loads of noise that we conflate into a soul (whatever that means) It seems to boil down to we like a bit of noise and vibration.

Thing is, you don't matter, like I don't, this is about personal mobility for millions in the future, clean, sustainable, safe, quick and easy transport, folk managed before they had internal combustion engines, they had transport that did actually have a soul and would kick the st out of you if it didnt get a sugar lump.

Most cars are deadly boring anyway, I have a BMW with 370 bhp and it goes well but may as well be electric as its auto and though it makes a bit of noise, meh, its not that exciting.

snowandrocks

665 posts

106 months

Saturday 27th February
quotequote all
Andeh1 said:
silence only broken by intense motor whine
All I generally hear when I drive our Model 3 is the creaking, rattling and groaning of the shoddily built interior! Drives me insane!

I look forward to someone (Lexus?) eventually making a properly built refined EV. There is a lot of potential there.

Jader1973

2,576 posts

164 months

Saturday 27th February
quotequote all
MikeStroud said:
I will miss the sound of a V8 etc but:

1 - I am looking forward to less traffic noise as I live near an A road.
I hate to break it to you but it is likely most of what you hear actually comes from the tyres.

A Tesla passes me fairly often when I’m out with the dog. It is as noisy, if not noisier than the ICE cars that go past.



Mr E

19,766 posts

223 months

Saturday 27th February
quotequote all
Within my lifetime kids will be amazed we let failable humans be responsible for 2 tons of metal at two miles a minute.

tommy1973s

Original Poster:

721 posts

135 months

Sunday 28th February
quotequote all
Crafty_ said:
EVs are only an extension of what we have now in terms of mediocrity. The times of cars having an interesting trait or design are (mostly) behind us, cars share a lot of tech nowadays and have narrow design briefs, so they all look the same and offer more or less the same things. I agree though it feels like EV will make everything more anonymous and bland.

For people who purely use a car to get A -> B, an EV makes no difference to them, they can get to work or the shops etc just fine, so why not.

Lets just hope that people who want to keep a toy/classic won't get victimised post 2030 for killing all the fluffy bunnies. Lets presume for a moment the effect those remaining cars will have on the environment will be negligible I don't think it will stop an agenda to force them off the road should politicians/green groups decide to target them - even if there are bigger fish to fry pollution wise.

In the wider picture I think as time progresses younger people will be geniunely baffled by the concept of a car enthusiast in the latter half of the 20th century/early 21st century.
Gradually "performance" models will just become trim levels, because people won't be prepared to pay premiums for an EV with an extra n kW output.
Boggo EVs are going to be more than capable of "making progress", especially off the line due to the instant torque as we've all already seen - so what can a performance model provide ?
How long will manufacturers dump big money in to motorsports if we all end up just buying cars as white goods (or more accurately, leasing).

As much as EVs will be (are?) a tech revolution they'll be a cultural one too.

The way I see it at the moment is I'll end up in an EV but it won't interest me in the slightest and I'll just end up buying whatever does the job rather than having any interest or affection for the thing, just like the washing machine really.

Edited by Crafty_ on Saturday 27th February 22:39
Yes, agree with everything you say there. Future generations will look at car culture with bewilderment. To them, you might as well talk about refrigerator culture. And I agree that modern cars generally are unsatisfying, despite being very fast. The rot set in some time ago.
My old Mk 2 Golf GTi with its meagre 139 bhp and my rally-prepped K11 Micra both put a grin on my mug every time i drive them. Our family A6 is very competent, quick - and boring as hell.

I recall getting the loan of a v12 bmw 7 series about 20 years ago, and boy what a let down!  Sure it was impressive in a whooshy overtake all comers sort of way but there was no sensation of speed and the car sort of drove itself – it wasn’t designed to be chucked about; even then, the driver was becoming the passenger.  Brilliant for doing 600 miles of an evening, but no fun.

Too much grip, too little suspension travel, too many turbos (of the civilised, non-laggy variety), no steering feel, fake throttle response, piped in noise, play station flappy paddles and boring autos, dreadful electric handbrakes, over served brakes, the list goes on ...

Every touch point in a modern car disappoints. All fake, all nanny state. All designed to shut out the driver. No interactivity. No ability to adjust the car on the throttle. You can't feather the throttle in a Tessa. And I do love a good intake roar ...

I've driven Teslas. Whoosh. I'm not complaining. But it's a one trick pony, cartoon version of driving which falls far short of the nuanced interactivity that I enjoy.

Teslas are of course not much worse than modern ICE cars. They're pretty interchangeable, all equally dull, and someone who drives a Q7 or somesuch wont really notice much difference.

If I was already a fan of 2021 ICE cars, the transition to EVs would indeed be pretty painless

My issue is that I only like older cars, for reasons noted. They're all petrol, obviously. I don't like either new ICE cars or EVs. It's more the loss of petrol stations and expertise and parts and the inevitable higher taxes etc that concerns me.

So my transition would be from rock n roll retro ICE cars to modern EV.

Frankly, I'd rather walk. I suspect there will be a market in black market synthetic petrol.

I'll be the crazy old guy doing early am drive pasts in a tuned 911, pissing off all the veggie kids on their electric scooters. Something to look fwd to I suppose : )

Fittster

20,018 posts

177 months

Sunday 28th February
quotequote all
tommy1973s said:
If I was already a fan of 2021 ICE cars, the transition to EVs would indeed be pretty painless

My issue is that I only like older cars, for reasons noted. They're all petrol, obviously. I don't like either new ICE cars or EVs. It's more the loss of petrol stations and expertise and parts and the inevitable higher taxes etc that concerns me.

So my transition would be from rock n roll retro ICE cars to modern EV.

Frankly, I'd rather walk. I suspect there will be a market in black market synthetic petrol.

I'll be the crazy old guy doing early am drive pasts in a tuned 911, pissing off all the veggie kids on their electric scooters. Something to look fwd to I suppose : )
So you like older forms of transport.

There are people who like horse and others who spend their spare time with traction engines. Old cars will be a hobby for the rest of your lifetime, if you wish.

Cold

10,793 posts

54 months

Sunday 28th February
quotequote all
Andeh1 said:
Is like going to from s*x to a blow job... Very very different... But absolutely not in a bad way!!
Not everybody likes giving blow jobs.

americancrx

352 posts

181 months

Sunday 28th February
quotequote all
Electric vehicles can offer a broader array of handling qualities than ICEs.

You can get whatever weight distribution you want, you can have plenty of room for good front suspension and steering geometry, and with a choice of one, two, three, or four motors driving the front, rear, or all four wheels you can set what you want the car to do under braking, mid-corner, and on exit.

I'm looking forward to a car that drives like an ICA kart - one rear motor with a short gear ratio, both rear wheels driven by a spool, lots of geometric inside-rear-wheel lift in the steering.

EK993

1,847 posts

215 months

Sunday 28th February
quotequote all
My Model X is leagues over and above the Range Rover Sport it replaced in terms of dynamics. As has been said, low center of gravity, crazy amounts of grunt from huge amounts of instant torque. I very much enjoy driving it and would hate the thought of having to get an ICE SUV in its place, even a performance one like a Cayenne Turbo. Yes there is no sound, but what car does sound good these days with particulate filters etc? They pretty much all sound insipid.


trickywoo

9,171 posts

194 months

Sunday 28th February
quotequote all
MikeStroud said:
1 - I am looking forward to less traffic noise as I live near an A road.
Prepare to be disappointed. The noise you hear now is road / tyre related which may actually get worse with heavier EVs.

If LGVs go electric it may help a bit but I’ve heard minimal talk of that.

QBee

18,084 posts

108 months

Sunday 28th February
quotequote all
I guess in time (I mean 40+ years) petrol supplies will become an issue, though not half as big an issue as diesel supplies for the millions of HGVs and other machinery in use around the globe, as I see very little movement towards electrifying them. I did have a ride in an electric London cab last year, and that really did seem like the right sort of progress.

I do want to save the planet for my grandchildren, but I plan to keep driving my old petrol Saab for as long as they will let me, and my V8 TVR reminds me of what a car should be - noisy, rattly, draughty but SUCH fun.

whp1983

486 posts

103 months

Sunday 28th February
quotequote all
It’s ages away don’t worry about it... and those that say a car culture won’t exist, don’t be ridiculous of course it will just like it always has.... like we don’t bang on about white wall tyres and carburettors next lot won’t be turbo tuning etc it will be whatever comes of hybrid/EV tuning customisation etc.