Downcast about EVs

Downcast about EVs

Author
Discussion

SWoll

10,875 posts

222 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
romeodelta said:
SWoll said:
romeodelta said:
SWoll said:
romeodelta said:
I went to the Australian Taycan launch this weekend and felt pretty meh.

It's a nice car, sure, but didn't give me any 'fizz'.

I didn't drive it as I had my young son with me, but the price is bonkers too.

A mate swapped his RS3 for a Model X. He loves it, but it makes no sense to me.

I think I will be an ICE guy for as long as it's viable.
So did you just look at it or at least get a passenger ride?

Not sure about Aus $ but in the UK the Taycan is actually cheaper than a comparable Panamera.

Taycan 4S - £83,580
Panamera 4S - £92,440
No passenger ride either, but to be honest, I'm not interested. The fact you can spec a fake noise says it all to me.

I don't know what the base list price is, but the ones in the showroom had a few options - I saw around $220k-$380k eek

To be fair, Oz does have a 33% luxury car tax, which includes the cost of options as well.
So didn't drive it or have a passenger ride, apparently don't appreciate how much Porsche's cost (still cheaper than a Panamera in AUS) and put off by it being silent in operation?

Well, at least you got to spend some quality time with your son I suppose?

Ah, an EV driver.

I can see why you're so defensive now rolleyes
biglaugh

I just find opinions from people with experience of a subject are more useful. An open mind to new experiences is also handy.

You disagree?

nunpuncher said:
I'm yet to meet someone who owns an EV that isn't a .
PH at its finest. smile

Perhaps you just know a lot of s?

Edited by SWoll on Wednesday 3rd March 22:17

romeodelta

573 posts

125 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
SWoll said:
romeodelta said:
SWoll said:
romeodelta said:
SWoll said:
romeodelta said:
I went to the Australian Taycan launch this weekend and felt pretty meh.

It's a nice car, sure, but didn't give me any 'fizz'.

I didn't drive it as I had my young son with me, but the price is bonkers too.

A mate swapped his RS3 for a Model X. He loves it, but it makes no sense to me.

I think I will be an ICE guy for as long as it's viable.
So did you just look at it or at least get a passenger ride?

Not sure about Aus $ but in the UK the Taycan is actually cheaper than a comparable Panamera.

Taycan 4S - £83,580
Panamera 4S - £92,440
No passenger ride either, but to be honest, I'm not interested. The fact you can spec a fake noise says it all to me.

I don't know what the base list price is, but the ones in the showroom had a few options - I saw around $220k-$380k eek

To be fair, Oz does have a 33% luxury car tax, which includes the cost of options as well.
So didn't drive it or have a passenger ride, apparently don't appreciate how much Porsche's cost (still cheaper than a Panamera in AUS) and put off by it being silent in operation?

Well, at least you got to spend some quality time with your son I suppose?

Ah, an EV driver.

I can see why you're so defensive now rolleyes
biglaugh

I just find opinions from people with experience of a subject are more useful. An open mind to new experiences is also handy.

You disagree?
Agreed.

Without driving it, I can see how you think my opinion is ill-informed, but at least I went for an open-minded nosy.

I'm not going to go any further with it, as I just don't want it.

Is that okay with you?

romeodelta

573 posts

125 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
mybrainhurts said:
They're almost as bad as vegans...rofl
I have a mate that is vegan and drives a Merc PHEV. AMG no less. It's a 1.3 laugh

Keeps sending me photos of 706mpg. Couldn't give a st rolleyes

raspy

460 posts

58 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
romeodelta said:
I have a mate that is vegan and drives a Merc PHEV. AMG no less. It's a 1.3 laugh

Keeps sending me photos of 706mpg. Couldn't give a st rolleyes
You mean AMG Line. That's just trim level, it's not a AMG car per se.

romeodelta

573 posts

125 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
raspy said:
romeodelta said:
I have a mate that is vegan and drives a Merc PHEV. AMG no less. It's a 1.3 laugh

Keeps sending me photos of 706mpg. Couldn't give a st rolleyes
You mean AMG Line. That's just trim level, it's not a AMG car per se.
I know.

But he says AMG. They all do.

DonkeyApple

40,656 posts

133 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
biggbn said:
I feel exactly the opposite to the OP, I can't wait for good ev to become more affordable. A low maintenance, frugal, quiet car that can be programmed to be sitting warm and defrosted for you in the morning and ultimately drive you to your work whilst you get on with something more important. Brilliant, what's not to like. Who LIKES driving in town, in traffic, crawling along...?
I think that will be a benefit for many. Conversely, invest in a house with a garage and dial in to work. That also solves those problems but instead of your elevated monthly commitments just going in the bin they'll be appreciating plus because you are consuming less you will be doing something positive for the environment.

I think that as a culture we have become so addicted to shopping and consumption that we automatically think the solution to any problem is found through buying or renting a depreciating object when the obvious reality is that all of our problems, lack of savings, third world exploitation, pollution, personal debt mountains are caused by excess consumer spending.

One can rarely put a fire out by adding more accelerant.

Personally, I have made a point of never needing a car to commute. Sure, living in the middle of London most of my life made that easy and will have also shown just how much easier and more pleasant it is not to be getting into a utility transport box every day and joining a queue of millions of drones.

If you have no choice then for most suburban, urban commuters where the roads are dull and uniform a box that is quieter, smoother, cheaper to own and easier to refuel will be an improvement.

But alternatively, just get rid of that utility bo altogether. No one likes them whether they are powered by petrol or electricity. They are monuments to blandness. The real technological gains are the ones that free is from having to own these dull boxes.

We are living right now at the greatest moment for car enthusiasts. Behind us we have all the cars ever built that we can select from, we have an absolutely enormous array of modern cars from V12s down to 3 pots and we have a rapidly expanding range of electric cars appearing.

It's the greatest time to be a car enthusiast so why does everyone spend their money on some sthouse bore box that's identical to all the other bore boxes, only differentiated by a logo and what the PR spend tells people to think? Rather than celebrating turds that depreciate and sentence is to a life of spending, we could be using all the modern tech and social advances to free ourselves from needing to have these boxes and instead invest.

It's obviously not possible for everyone but the most exciting part of the future is not having to own or use a boring box on wheels for boring things.

Mr E

19,771 posts

223 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
SWoll said:
nunpuncher said:
I'm yet to meet someone who owns an EV that isn't a .
PH at its finest. smile

Perhaps you just know a lot of s?
I own an EV. I don’t know the puncher of nuns. I am probably a bit of a tt but I don’t think I’m a

I hope that helps.

biggbn

9,641 posts

184 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
romeodelta said:
I have a mate that is vegan and drives a Merc PHEV. AMG no less. It's a 1.3 laugh

Keeps sending me photos of 706mpg. Couldn't give a st rolleyes
Vegan here, owned over 200 cars including many sub 20mpg behemoths and will continue to do so, sorry to burst the stereotype

Charles Sweeney

101 posts

59 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
craigjm said:
Are you over 40? If so then just make sure you have the ice cars you want in 2030ish and keep driving them. Fuel won’t be banned until 2050 by which time anyone born in the 70s or earlier will have hung up their driving gloves or shuffled off.
That suits me, I'll be gone by then (probably the 2030s!).

It's maybe an age thing. I find the electric cars quite boring too.

DazzaSport

152 posts

30 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
I'm not worried yet. I love ICE just as much as the next man. I've had 4's, 6's and 8's. Never owned an EV.

ICE cars even now have 'piped in' engine noise. That amuses me greatly. But imagine this...

For the most part an EV's power delivery is not very characterful. Generally a great big slug of torque that dissipates as the speed climbs. All with very little noise. But, it doesn't have to be this way.

As an example, take a Nissan GT-R - together with it's flappy paddle gearbox.

Imagine taking that same Nissan GT-R and giving it the exact same performance - only using EV tech.

It now have a characterless power delivery right?

It's now far more silent than before right?

Well, it doesn't have to be. The EV motor is digitally controlled right? So why not program in character. A computer could EASILY control the power delivery of the motor. Completely changing it. Instead of having immense torque right from the off - it could be PROGRAMMED to build torque in a similar way to an ICE motor. Just like drive modes in today's ICE cars, why not have various a simulated ICE engine modes?

You want a normally aspirated Honda VTEC that revs to 9,000 complete with VTEC hit at 6,000 RPM - you got it.

You want a torquey low revving V8 - you got it.

You want a supercharged 6-cylinder - you got it.

You want a 4-cyl with monster turbo boost - you got it.

Just like car noises are simulated in the cabin of the car. The same can be done with all of the above. I know all lot of people turn their noses up at those fake noises, but I've heard some reviewers actually say that some of them sound pretty good. Heard this recently about the GR Yaris.

Most EV's don't need gears right. But who's to say that cannot be simulated too? Ok, a manual gearbox with a clutch is likely a bit to much length to go to. But a flappy paddle set up in our example GT-R can EASILY be simulated.

Personally, if they could replicate the power delivery, the hard shifts when pulling a paddle and the noise that goes with it. It's not going to feel much different to the real thing. All without causing real noise pollution.

So, I'm not worried. There's still some way to go with EV's yet. I'm hoping that the car manufacturers don't forget us petrol heads - and give us something we will enjoy going forward.

Personally, I'd be happy to own an EV hot hatch with simulated gears via flappy paddles. With a selection of suitable drive modes simulated.

One day it can be a highly strung NA Honda Civic Type-R - in power delivery and noise.

The next day, you might fancy a turbo four with big boost - all simulated.

It's entirely possible.

Cheers!

kiseca

8,854 posts

183 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
Personally I think the last thing EV cars need to do is shy away from their own identity and try and pretend they're something else. They have their own strengths, things that an ICE car can't match, and should flaunt those instead of trying not to offend the nostalgic.


survivalist

3,312 posts

154 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
kiseca said:
Personally I think the last thing EV cars need to do is shy away from their own identity and try and pretend they're something else. They have their own strengths, things that an ICE car can't match, and should flaunt those instead of trying not to offend the nostalgic.
For many, EVs are a better solution than the dull mid size SUV with a turbo 3 or 4 pot they currently drive.

The question is whether there is a market for a Lyn EV than can emulate a more characterful car but retain the benefits of EV.

Given how few 2 seater sports cars there are on sale currently, the market might not be big enough.

DonkeyApple

40,656 posts

133 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
survivalist said:
kiseca said:
Personally I think the last thing EV cars need to do is shy away from their own identity and try and pretend they're something else. They have their own strengths, things that an ICE car can't match, and should flaunt those instead of trying not to offend the nostalgic.
For many, EVs are a better solution than the dull mid size SUV with a turbo 3 or 4 pot they currently drive.

The question is whether there is a market for a Lyn EV than can emulate a more characterful car but retain the benefits of EV.

Given how few 2 seater sports cars there are on sale currently, the market might not be big enough.
As the product expands more into the normal market there's bound to be a demand for 'hacking'.

mybrainhurts

90,280 posts

219 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
QBee said:
mybrainhurts said:
QBee said:
I still have a horse, just in case the car breaks down (like it did Friday evening).
It farts for Europe, but nobody is banning horses.....yet.
No, not as long as they're served on the French dinner table.
How could you?????

I meant they won't get banned because the frogs find them tasty....smile

PS....sorry, I'll get me coat.

monkfish1

8,936 posts

188 months

Thursday 4th March
quotequote all
DazzaSport said:
I'm not worried yet. I love ICE just as much as the next man. I've had 4's, 6's and 8's. Never owned an EV.

ICE cars even now have 'piped in' engine noise. That amuses me greatly. But imagine this...

For the most part an EV's power delivery is not very characterful. Generally a great big slug of torque that dissipates as the speed climbs. All with very little noise. But, it doesn't have to be this way.

As an example, take a Nissan GT-R - together with it's flappy paddle gearbox.

Imagine taking that same Nissan GT-R and giving it the exact same performance - only using EV tech.

It now have a characterless power delivery right?

It's now far more silent than before right?

Well, it doesn't have to be. The EV motor is digitally controlled right? So why not program in character. A computer could EASILY control the power delivery of the motor. Completely changing it. Instead of having immense torque right from the off - it could be PROGRAMMED to build torque in a similar way to an ICE motor. Just like drive modes in today's ICE cars, why not have various a simulated ICE engine modes?

You want a normally aspirated Honda VTEC that revs to 9,000 complete with VTEC hit at 6,000 RPM - you got it.

You want a torquey low revving V8 - you got it.

You want a supercharged 6-cylinder - you got it.

You want a 4-cyl with monster turbo boost - you got it.

Just like car noises are simulated in the cabin of the car. The same can be done with all of the above. I know all lot of people turn their noses up at those fake noises, but I've heard some reviewers actually say that some of them sound pretty good. Heard this recently about the GR Yaris.

Most EV's don't need gears right. But who's to say that cannot be simulated too? Ok, a manual gearbox with a clutch is likely a bit to much length to go to. But a flappy paddle set up in our example GT-R can EASILY be simulated.

Personally, if they could replicate the power delivery, the hard shifts when pulling a paddle and the noise that goes with it. It's not going to feel much different to the real thing. All without causing real noise pollution.

So, I'm not worried. There's still some way to go with EV's yet. I'm hoping that the car manufacturers don't forget us petrol heads - and give us something we will enjoy going forward.

Personally, I'd be happy to own an EV hot hatch with simulated gears via flappy paddles. With a selection of suitable drive modes simulated.

One day it can be a highly strung NA Honda Civic Type-R - in power delivery and noise.

The next day, you might fancy a turbo four with big boost - all simulated.

It's entirely possible.

Cheers!
Errr, why?

kiseca

8,854 posts

183 months

Friday 5th March
quotequote all
survivalist said:
kiseca said:
Personally I think the last thing EV cars need to do is shy away from their own identity and try and pretend they're something else. They have their own strengths, things that an ICE car can't match, and should flaunt those instead of trying not to offend the nostalgic.
For many, EVs are a better solution than the dull mid size SUV with a turbo 3 or 4 pot they currently drive.

The question is whether there is a market for a Lyn EV than can emulate a more characterful car but retain the benefits of EV.

Given how few 2 seater sports cars there are on sale currently, the market might not be big enough.
My point is it shouldn't have to emulate character, it just needs to find its own character and let that stand out.

Plenty of characterful cars are thus not because of their engine nor gearbox. Lotuses are all about feedback, ride and handling. Jaguars are a supple ride combined with good roadholding. Mercedes focus on luxury. No reason for EVs to lose any of that if the designers want to keep it.