Downcast about EVs
Discussion
cerb4.5lee said:
SWoll said:
4 cylinder diesels are silent all of a sudden? i'd consider getting your hearing tested. 
We've found we need to be super careful with ours in car parks etc. as have had a number of people just step out in front of us due to the lack of noise at low speeds. The law has changed since and now all EV's must have a sound device fitted for speeds below 12mph in both forward and reverse. Ours was built just before the rule came in so doesn't have it.
SWoll said:
romeodelta said:
I went to the Australian Taycan launch this weekend and felt pretty meh.
It's a nice car, sure, but didn't give me any 'fizz'.
I didn't drive it as I had my young son with me, but the price is bonkers too.
A mate swapped his RS3 for a Model X. He loves it, but it makes no sense to me.
I think I will be an ICE guy for as long as it's viable.
So did you just look at it or at least get a passenger ride?It's a nice car, sure, but didn't give me any 'fizz'.
I didn't drive it as I had my young son with me, but the price is bonkers too.
A mate swapped his RS3 for a Model X. He loves it, but it makes no sense to me.
I think I will be an ICE guy for as long as it's viable.
Not sure about Aus $ but in the UK the Taycan is actually cheaper than a comparable Panamera.
Taycan 4S - £83,580
Panamera 4S - £92,440
I don't know what the base list price is, but the ones in the showroom had a few options - I saw around $220k-$380k
To be fair, Oz does have a 33% luxury car tax, which includes the cost of options as well.
I think folk will forget engine noises for most cars pretty quickly as most of the engine noises are pretty average.
As has been mentioned a lot of the noises of traffic is tyres and wind noise for most cars when at speed, at idle and low speeds engine noise is the bigger component.
Most cars engine noises arent exactly nice, next doors Discovery Diesel, the four pot Merc across the road, my six cylinder sounds ok but at 6 am I could do without it.
Supercar engine noises get tiresome, used to be cool to see one or hear one but round here there are a lot of them, I was cleaning my car this afternoon and some t
t in something exotic was howling up and down (in a 30) going like the clappers with it whumping on gear changes and popping and banging on the overrun. Wasn't a Hot Hatch, it was 8 or more cylinders. I think cars, strangely, despite all the legislation and filters have got noisier, especially supercars which can be from the factory obnoxiously loud.
If the EV had got developed instead of the IC I dont think we would be clamoring for someone to invent something that makes small explosions several thousand times a minute, we are kind of stuck with it but future generations arent.
Actually, be interesting to play a selection of choice engine noises to tribes who have never encountered cars before (if they still exist) and see whether its just a natural, or learnt response, whether they find it pleasant or not. My wife isnt really into cars but sometimes on hearing a big V8 remarks on how nice it sounds.
As has been mentioned a lot of the noises of traffic is tyres and wind noise for most cars when at speed, at idle and low speeds engine noise is the bigger component.
Most cars engine noises arent exactly nice, next doors Discovery Diesel, the four pot Merc across the road, my six cylinder sounds ok but at 6 am I could do without it.
Supercar engine noises get tiresome, used to be cool to see one or hear one but round here there are a lot of them, I was cleaning my car this afternoon and some t
t in something exotic was howling up and down (in a 30) going like the clappers with it whumping on gear changes and popping and banging on the overrun. Wasn't a Hot Hatch, it was 8 or more cylinders. I think cars, strangely, despite all the legislation and filters have got noisier, especially supercars which can be from the factory obnoxiously loud.If the EV had got developed instead of the IC I dont think we would be clamoring for someone to invent something that makes small explosions several thousand times a minute, we are kind of stuck with it but future generations arent.
Actually, be interesting to play a selection of choice engine noises to tribes who have never encountered cars before (if they still exist) and see whether its just a natural, or learnt response, whether they find it pleasant or not. My wife isnt really into cars but sometimes on hearing a big V8 remarks on how nice it sounds.
craigjm said:
Are you over 40? If so then just make sure you have the ice cars you want in 2030ish and keep driving them. Fuel won’t be banned until 2050 by which time anyone born in the 70s or earlier will have hung up their driving gloves or shuffled off.
It's not a matter of banning fuel, it's a case of it not being needed therefore being scarce and not sold at all in some areas.tommy1973s said:
The end of ICE is a first World problem, agreed. Nonetheless, while self driving battery cars will suit many, I couldn't care less. I was reading Autocar today and lots of the coverage is EVs. I've talked myself into gloom about it.
It's like you've been buying a football magazine all your life, and then, without telling you, they convert it to golf or something. Or lacrosse. Whatever that is.
Just soulless transport pods.
I'm excited about battery powered self flying personal planes alright. The excitement of being airborne, despite having no flying skills, would compensate.
But for cars, the trend is inexorably towards ever-increasing boredom and passivity. Just sitting there, doing SFA. It'd be like if they banned skiing and made you ride up and down on the chair lifts instead. Quicker, easier, and safer - but no fun.
Sighs : )
Get over it Granddad, Miraculous Battery Improvements coming next year!It's like you've been buying a football magazine all your life, and then, without telling you, they convert it to golf or something. Or lacrosse. Whatever that is.
Just soulless transport pods.
I'm excited about battery powered self flying personal planes alright. The excitement of being airborne, despite having no flying skills, would compensate.
But for cars, the trend is inexorably towards ever-increasing boredom and passivity. Just sitting there, doing SFA. It'd be like if they banned skiing and made you ride up and down on the chair lifts instead. Quicker, easier, and safer - but no fun.
Sighs : )
TX.
I have been working on.EV propoganda with my wife..
A woman that doesn't like change.
Subtle hints like "If we had an electric car, I could go into the app on your phone and warm it up for you"
And "I think work would put In a charger point so we'd hardly ever pay to charge it"
And what's the furthest we've driven in the last 10 years..
Ah. Yes Oban....yes, we'd have to stop to charge on the way..
Or just go in.the mx5 and leave the boring car at home.
A woman that doesn't like change.
Subtle hints like "If we had an electric car, I could go into the app on your phone and warm it up for you"
And "I think work would put In a charger point so we'd hardly ever pay to charge it"
And what's the furthest we've driven in the last 10 years..
Ah. Yes Oban....yes, we'd have to stop to charge on the way..
Or just go in.the mx5 and leave the boring car at home.
I imagine there will always be cars for enthusiasts, electric or otherwise. Be it new from dealer or through businesses that cater to those people by selling modifications, we'll be able to have something cool.
Dreary cars have always been dreary, and will continue to be so, but anyone who says we haven't had fun cars for the last however many years needs to stop being so stubborn, and take off their rose tints.
I love the intricacies of a combustion engine, but above that, I just like car culture, and while the former may be in its twilight years, the latter still has a huge fanbase. I have hope for cars of the future.
Dreary cars have always been dreary, and will continue to be so, but anyone who says we haven't had fun cars for the last however many years needs to stop being so stubborn, and take off their rose tints.
I love the intricacies of a combustion engine, but above that, I just like car culture, and while the former may be in its twilight years, the latter still has a huge fanbase. I have hope for cars of the future.
Muddle238 said:
The drone industry is certainly one to watch, but passenger-carrying drones is something that I just can’t see taking off, excuse the pun. Effectively they would be pilot-less aeroplanes, which I would argue is a poor idea, especially if there are no controls and the passenger doesn’t know how to fly.
Drones require computers to function, computers work in binary, either 1 or 0, yes or no, black or white. Flying is very rarely black or white, rather the infinite shades of grey in between. I would most certainly never set foot in a pilot-less aeroplane.
The civilian industry could always just follow the military whichbisnt exactly uncommon with tech. You strap in to your drone, wearing your morning suit, dial up a weirdo who lives in his darkened bedroom at mother's house and he will pilot you from your driveway to the wedding, whereupon he will simply release you from a thousand feet on top of the bride and groom and their family. Drones require computers to function, computers work in binary, either 1 or 0, yes or no, black or white. Flying is very rarely black or white, rather the infinite shades of grey in between. I would most certainly never set foot in a pilot-less aeroplane.
Drones capable of carrying humans is one of those things that in paper instantly looks like the greatest invention of our lifetimes. Who wouldn't want to nip from their house to the pub, zipping between trees and buildings etc but the reality is not that at all. Just look at the legislation for drones that aren't carrying people.
However, if we think one step further, all the tech already exists to have drones capable of carrying humans. It's one of very many great bits of tech that could be delivered yesterday if it weren't for one single issue. That being energy storage.
The inability for drones to efficiently carry humans is simply down to the same problem that is stopping EVs from simply eradicating ICE cars andnin reality stopping millions and millions of advances and retarding the whole of humanity. We don't have any form of efficient energy storage. It's arguably the single largest issue facing humanity, not just in blocking it from moving forward but in creating vast amounts of excess pollution.
Damage to a Jaguar I-PACE battery case under the car costs north of £28,000 to repair. There will be a lot of write offs when these cars get damaged.
Source: https://insideevs.com/news/491369/damage-jaguar-ip...
Source: https://insideevs.com/news/491369/damage-jaguar-ip...
romeodelta said:
SWoll said:
romeodelta said:
I went to the Australian Taycan launch this weekend and felt pretty meh.
It's a nice car, sure, but didn't give me any 'fizz'.
I didn't drive it as I had my young son with me, but the price is bonkers too.
A mate swapped his RS3 for a Model X. He loves it, but it makes no sense to me.
I think I will be an ICE guy for as long as it's viable.
So did you just look at it or at least get a passenger ride?It's a nice car, sure, but didn't give me any 'fizz'.
I didn't drive it as I had my young son with me, but the price is bonkers too.
A mate swapped his RS3 for a Model X. He loves it, but it makes no sense to me.
I think I will be an ICE guy for as long as it's viable.
Not sure about Aus $ but in the UK the Taycan is actually cheaper than a comparable Panamera.
Taycan 4S - £83,580
Panamera 4S - £92,440
I don't know what the base list price is, but the ones in the showroom had a few options - I saw around $220k-$380k
To be fair, Oz does have a 33% luxury car tax, which includes the cost of options as well.
Well, at least you got to spend some quality time with your son I suppose?
my opinion as to weather the future is better to worse with EV's instead of ICE is irrelevant to all but me, but the simple fact is that change is inevitable, so you can either embrace and find the good in that (Zoe and Maserati for example) or moan about how cr4p it is and why it is unfair and wrong.
I just don't get all the moaning, as if current cars are some pinnacle of automotive pleasure. Only this week most of this forum was moaning yet another VAG product with a ubiquitous EA888 engine and MQB chassis. Cars have had electric non direct steering, throttle and brakes for years. Almost all cars create an illusion of feeling good with faked piped in cabin sounds, electric diffs to pull you round a corner and programmed fake pop and thumping gear changes or crafted drive modes......all fake. I would argue the difference between most cars these days are their respective marketing departments and budgets.
EV's are just different and people don't like change.
I just don't get all the moaning, as if current cars are some pinnacle of automotive pleasure. Only this week most of this forum was moaning yet another VAG product with a ubiquitous EA888 engine and MQB chassis. Cars have had electric non direct steering, throttle and brakes for years. Almost all cars create an illusion of feeling good with faked piped in cabin sounds, electric diffs to pull you round a corner and programmed fake pop and thumping gear changes or crafted drive modes......all fake. I would argue the difference between most cars these days are their respective marketing departments and budgets.
EV's are just different and people don't like change.
markcoopers said:
my opinion as to weather the future is better to worse with EV's instead of ICE is irrelevant to all but me, but the simple fact is that change is inevitable, so you can either embrace and find the good in that (Zoe and Maserati for example) or moan about how cr4p it is and why it is unfair and wrong.
I just don't get all the moaning, as if current cars are some pinnacle of automotive pleasure. Only this week most of this forum was moaning yet another VAG product with a ubiquitous EA888 engine and MQB chassis. Cars have had electric non direct steering, throttle and brakes for years. Almost all cars create an illusion of feeling good with faked piped in cabin sounds, electric diffs to pull you round a corner and programmed fake pop and thumping gear changes or crafted drive modes......all fake. I would argue the difference between most cars these days are their respective marketing departments and budgets.
EV's are just different and people don't like change.
I also think that it is prudent to accept if only to ensure that over the next decade people make the most of the enormous array of choice out there and not just sit there moaning and hoping that all the legislation will be undone or that some mystical new petrol will appear. I just don't get all the moaning, as if current cars are some pinnacle of automotive pleasure. Only this week most of this forum was moaning yet another VAG product with a ubiquitous EA888 engine and MQB chassis. Cars have had electric non direct steering, throttle and brakes for years. Almost all cars create an illusion of feeling good with faked piped in cabin sounds, electric diffs to pull you round a corner and programmed fake pop and thumping gear changes or crafted drive modes......all fake. I would argue the difference between most cars these days are their respective marketing departments and budgets.
EV's are just different and people don't like change.
We have this window of opportunity and it would be very sad to be one of the people who sat there and did nothing.
Super_G said:
Damage to a Jaguar I-PACE battery case under the car costs north of £28,000 to repair. There will be a lot of write offs when these cars get damaged.
Source: https://insideevs.com/news/491369/damage-jaguar-ip...
Absolute total bobbins, sorry! Apparently the "sealant" to seal the battery box costs 12,611 Euro, really? Does it? I have a bridge you can buy if you think that is the case...Source: https://insideevs.com/news/491369/damage-jaguar-ip...
More faux "shock and awe" with little basis in reality.
SWoll said:
romeodelta said:
SWoll said:
romeodelta said:
I went to the Australian Taycan launch this weekend and felt pretty meh.
It's a nice car, sure, but didn't give me any 'fizz'.
I didn't drive it as I had my young son with me, but the price is bonkers too.
A mate swapped his RS3 for a Model X. He loves it, but it makes no sense to me.
I think I will be an ICE guy for as long as it's viable.
So did you just look at it or at least get a passenger ride?It's a nice car, sure, but didn't give me any 'fizz'.
I didn't drive it as I had my young son with me, but the price is bonkers too.
A mate swapped his RS3 for a Model X. He loves it, but it makes no sense to me.
I think I will be an ICE guy for as long as it's viable.
Not sure about Aus $ but in the UK the Taycan is actually cheaper than a comparable Panamera.
Taycan 4S - £83,580
Panamera 4S - £92,440
I don't know what the base list price is, but the ones in the showroom had a few options - I saw around $220k-$380k
To be fair, Oz does have a 33% luxury car tax, which includes the cost of options as well.
Well, at least you got to spend some quality time with your son I suppose?
I can see why you're so defensive now
Andeh1 said:
Have you ever actually driven an equivalent EV to your ICE car of choice?
Impossibly low centre of gravity, mind blowingly fast linear acceleration, silence only broken by intense motor whine, never needing to visit a petrol station again...
Is like going to from s*x to a blow job... Very very different... But absolutely not in a bad way!!
If you don’t think a blow job is a step down from a good shag you’re doing it wrong.Impossibly low centre of gravity, mind blowingly fast linear acceleration, silence only broken by intense motor whine, never needing to visit a petrol station again...
Is like going to from s*x to a blow job... Very very different... But absolutely not in a bad way!!
Edited by Andeh1 on Saturday 27th February 22:31
snowandrocks said:
Andeh1 said:
silence only broken by intense motor whine
All I generally hear when I drive our Model 3 is the creaking, rattling and groaning of the shoddily built interior! Drives me insane! I look forward to someone (Lexus?) eventually making a properly built refined EV. There is a lot of potential there.
Only issue with the Merc range, while it genuinely does 270 miles in warm weather, the recent cold we had (-9) dropped the indicated range to 150 miles, which wasn't good for his 85 mile commute each way. Was only plugged into a normal domestic socket all day which added the square root of feck all so had to stop at a supercharger for 20 mins.
Genuine question to Tesla drivers, does the range drop significantly in the extreme cold too?
kingofdbrits said:
A work colleague has a Merc EQC, interior is exactly what you'd expect from an £85k merc. Interesting vid from carwow explaining how while the German manufacturers aren't quite at Tesla levels for battery and range the interiors are leagues ahead, as you'd expect.
Only issue with the Merc range, while it genuinely does 270 miles in warm weather, the recent cold we had (-9) dropped the indicated range to 150 miles, which wasn't good for his 85 mile commute each way. Was only plugged into a normal domestic socket all day which added the square root of feck all so had to stop at a supercharger for 20 mins.
Genuine question to Tesla drivers, does the range drop significantly in the extreme cold too?
That is quite a drop, some may say alarmingly so. whilst it is implausible to give an accurate range for all weathers and driving styles/roads, even so to suggest a neigh on 270mile range when in reality a little over half of that is entirely probable does smack of dishonesty to me.Only issue with the Merc range, while it genuinely does 270 miles in warm weather, the recent cold we had (-9) dropped the indicated range to 150 miles, which wasn't good for his 85 mile commute each way. Was only plugged into a normal domestic socket all day which added the square root of feck all so had to stop at a supercharger for 20 mins.
Genuine question to Tesla drivers, does the range drop significantly in the extreme cold too?
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