RE: Volvo reveals 408hp C40 Recharge
Discussion
Arsecati said:
Peldrigal said:
But he is right: CO2 per capita is a very bad metric to compare countries with vastly different levels of economic development. You need something like CO2 per unit of output, and even deciding what unit of output you use can be contentious: do you use dollars, dollars at purchasing power parity, tons of product?
Cool, so when you've got around to formulating that viable alternative, you'll come back and let the rest of the world know then, yeah? Cheers.Dombilano said:
Reminds me of a Citroen BX. 
When you look closely at the sills and wheel arches, you can see acres of black plastic trying to reduce the area of body colour, clearly trying to make it look less cumbersome than it really is.
I don’t get it. Doesn’t look all that practical, it’s very expensive and it’s another faux-SUV.
Interesting article "The spiralling environmental cost of our lithium battery addiction".
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-batteries-...
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-batteries-...
Speedraser said:
He said keep the car you already own. In which case, there would be zero additional polution from manufacturing a new car, its engine/motor, and its batteries.
The emissions produced by a car while in use is just one part of the environmental picture. Most of the materials to make electric drivetrains and batteries come from China -- the world's greatest polluter BY FAR. Mining, manufacturing, etc, those materials is extremely bad for the environment -- this is so often ignored. Vastly more electric cars means vastly more production from China -- and vastly more pollution from that production. Per the Paris agreement, China doesn't even have to start reducing its pollution for another decade! Oh, and there is no mechanism to enforce even that. And then there's the economic dependence on China for those electric drivetrain materials. To be clear, I'm not saying that electric cars are bad, or that they won't help the environment long-term. Whether that's the case depends on many things. What truly matters is the "cradle-to-grave" pollution. The notion that EVs are "pollution-free" or that they are only solution, grossly ignores so many issues that are critically important to actually addressing the problem, rather than merely politicking.
You completely missed my point. I wasn’t referring to the pollution from the production of the ICE car - more the running of it.The emissions produced by a car while in use is just one part of the environmental picture. Most of the materials to make electric drivetrains and batteries come from China -- the world's greatest polluter BY FAR. Mining, manufacturing, etc, those materials is extremely bad for the environment -- this is so often ignored. Vastly more electric cars means vastly more production from China -- and vastly more pollution from that production. Per the Paris agreement, China doesn't even have to start reducing its pollution for another decade! Oh, and there is no mechanism to enforce even that. And then there's the economic dependence on China for those electric drivetrain materials. To be clear, I'm not saying that electric cars are bad, or that they won't help the environment long-term. Whether that's the case depends on many things. What truly matters is the "cradle-to-grave" pollution. The notion that EVs are "pollution-free" or that they are only solution, grossly ignores so many issues that are critically important to actually addressing the problem, rather than merely politicking.
Edited by Speedraser on Wednesday 3rd March 02:58
The scale of CO2 output to get oil and ultimately petrol/diesel to a pump is massive. Then after all of that, the ICE engine is just 30% efficient.
Arsecati said:
These shouldn't even be called cars now, they are simply PTD's - Personal Transportation Devices.
That doesn't make sense. Most cars are dull boxes used by dull people to do dull things in dull places. Whether the person is pouring petrol, diesel or electricity to power their dullness and mediocrity is neither here nor there really. A Golf is still a Golf being used for what a Golf is used for irrespective of what the engine is under the skin. What's very odd is that 90% of car owners in the UK leapt at diesel. It was like the new messiah and they would come up with a raft of inane excuses as to why diesel was so awesome and why they were awesome for making such a superior life choice. We all knew that it was all down to money, monthlies and tax savings. And because so many people are morons they were actually ending up spending more to obtain imaginary savings. It just seems to be the reverse at the moment with EVs, because most are more expensive the same mentalists are coming up with endless excuses as to why they are terrible.
But in a few years when the comparable EV becomes cheaper than their beloved diesel or petrol s
tbox, monument to mediocrity they will transform overnight into the most boring evangelists for electricity just like they did diesel. They will rush to own an EV because others will think they must own a driveway. They will be spending hours in an evening, watching TV in Tesco's car park just so they can save a fortune by owning an EV. Trying to say that modern EVs are just dull transport pods is a bit silly when that is what 99% of all cars are. You can't separate bull boxes out based on what fuels them.
PH User said:
Cars are just transport for most people, so they are happy if it's cheap and comfortable. It's only us car nerds who really care what we drive and even then most of us drive boring cars, it's just that we tend to choose boring cars with faster engines.
Very true. Plus, the emotional aspect that a noisy, smelly, mechanic object delivers. But the decade long trend of utility boxes has been to create quiet, less smelly, constant velocity machines regardless of what the power plant is. All cars have become infinitely less interesting unless one's core interest is gadgetry. DonkeyApple said:
PH User said:
Cars are just transport for most people, so they are happy if it's cheap and comfortable. It's only us car nerds who really care what we drive and even then most of us drive boring cars, it's just that we tend to choose boring cars with faster engines.
Very true. Plus, the emotional aspect that a noisy, smelly, mechanic object delivers. But the decade long trend of utility boxes has been to create quiet, less smelly, constant velocity machines regardless of what the power plant is. All cars have become infinitely less interesting unless one's core interest is gadgetry. PH User said:
DonkeyApple said:
PH User said:
Cars are just transport for most people, so they are happy if it's cheap and comfortable. It's only us car nerds who really care what we drive and even then most of us drive boring cars, it's just that we tend to choose boring cars with faster engines.
Very true. Plus, the emotional aspect that a noisy, smelly, mechanic object delivers. But the decade long trend of utility boxes has been to create quiet, less smelly, constant velocity machines regardless of what the power plant is. All cars have become infinitely less interesting unless one's core interest is gadgetry. DonkeyApple said:
And I suspect the bulk of the generic hatred of EVs is a function of them not yet being cheaper or more practical than an ICE. The moment they are for the bulk of drivers then the same insane love that people have to diesel transport boxes will manifest for EVs and Congolese children will be long forgotten.
Possibly but I never loved diesel at any point. It was only ever about saving money on a white goods Vectra that I could spend on more enjoyable things. I reckon I could enjoy an EV far more than I ever did that car, no horrible rattle, no smell, no vibration and effortless, instant power delivery.Conversely I will miss the sound of a good petrol engine but not in stop start traffic and routing commuting for which an EV will be far better suited. Assuming the numbers add up.
CDP said:
Possibly but I never loved diesel at any point. It was only ever about saving money on a white goods Vectra that I could spend on more enjoyable things. I reckon I could enjoy an EV far more than I ever did that car, no horrible rattle, no smell, no vibration and effortless, instant power delivery.
Conversely I will miss the sound of a good petrol engine but not in stop start traffic and routing commuting for which an EV will be far better suited. Assuming the numbers add up.
Agree. Nothings is going to surpass going up through the gears, building to the power, trying to stay on it than a good petrol engine. But even those suffer from downsizing, forced induction and 8+ speed gearboxes all designed to maintain a small rev range and always hunt economy. Conversely I will miss the sound of a good petrol engine but not in stop start traffic and routing commuting for which an EV will be far better suited. Assuming the numbers add up.
The diesel thing on PH was plain weird in that overnight, haters become lovers and banged on and on about not having to go to petrol stations as often, the instant torque and numerous other things when all it was about was money. I'm pretty confident the same will happen with EVs. Haters will become devout evangelicals when their prices drop far enough and they are no longer the preserve of the more affluent. Arguably, because of those affluent origins the reversal could be even more robust.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff