Stupid maintenance requirements
Discussion
offset said:
Makes me smile, there is the reason why we love old cars, simple to fix, no ecus, no electric devices, (2cv,austin mini, etc)
Ah, the 2CV, with the coil right behind the grill so maintenance consisted regular doses of WD40 whenever it rained, going down to one cylinder on the M6 between Scotland and Birmingham in the rain and having to stop on the hard shoulder several times in the dark was great fun. Or perhaps the removable grill panel for use in the winter to keep them warm but loads of people left them on throughout the summer so they cooked their oil
I hate to tell you but the new generation of connected vehicles will require type approval for cyber security before they can be sold. UN ECE Regulation 155 kicks in for new vehicle types post 2024 although it actually started to come in Jan 2021.
This will require certificates to be loaded onto the car (that's the bit that gives your the padlock in your web browser up above) so the connected car can talk over an encrypted connection just the same as your web browser. Some component changes will require new certificates to be loaded so you'll need more than spanners to swop some bits out.
There is a sister legislation too UNECE R156, this covers software updates, expect the car to be asking you "There are updates available, install now?" some will update why you are driving, some will wait until you have turned it off, some will want a workshop visit.
Updates whilst driving - the new Brave Pill
Looks to me like the comms will all be turned off once the manufacturer stops providing updates too, you'll be able to drive it but no more remote app starting, updates, nav, spotify or whatever else is built in. It's a bit like Windows XP disappeared after Microsoft pulled the plug except it's.........your car!
This will require certificates to be loaded onto the car (that's the bit that gives your the padlock in your web browser up above) so the connected car can talk over an encrypted connection just the same as your web browser. Some component changes will require new certificates to be loaded so you'll need more than spanners to swop some bits out.
There is a sister legislation too UNECE R156, this covers software updates, expect the car to be asking you "There are updates available, install now?" some will update why you are driving, some will wait until you have turned it off, some will want a workshop visit.
Updates whilst driving - the new Brave Pill
Looks to me like the comms will all be turned off once the manufacturer stops providing updates too, you'll be able to drive it but no more remote app starting, updates, nav, spotify or whatever else is built in. It's a bit like Windows XP disappeared after Microsoft pulled the plug except it's.........your car!
Edited by RussBennett on Thursday 11th March 20:03
Battery on my smax recently, this will be easy, big car, small 1.5 engine.
Nope, wipers and scuttle etc off.
Still, found out why the heated windscreen and start/stop has been intermittent since new, went to reset the battery and the ecu had been set as a standard battery from factory when the car was fitted with an agm. Pity ford didn't figure that out the 8 times and 3 windscreens they had it in for on warranty.
Nope, wipers and scuttle etc off.
Still, found out why the heated windscreen and start/stop has been intermittent since new, went to reset the battery and the ecu had been set as a standard battery from factory when the car was fitted with an agm. Pity ford didn't figure that out the 8 times and 3 windscreens they had it in for on warranty.
RussBennett said:
I hate to tell you but the new generation of connected vehicles will require type approval for cyber security before they can be sold. UN ECE Regulation 155 kicks in for new vehicle types post 2024 although it actually started to come in Jan 2021.
This will require certificates to be loaded onto the car (that's the bit that gives your the padlock in your web browser up above) so the connected car can talk over an encrypted connection just the same as your web browser. Some component changes will require new certificates to be loaded so you'll need more than spanners to swop some bits out.
There is a sister legislation too UNECE R156, this covers software updates, expect the car to be asking you "There are updates available, install now?" some will update why you are driving, some will wait until you have turned it off, some will want a workshop visit.
Updates whilst driving - the new Brave Pill
Looks to me like the comms will all be turned off once the manufacturer stops providing updates too, you'll be able to drive it but no more remote app starting, updates, nav, spotify or whatever else is built in. It's a bit like Windows XP disappeared after Microsoft pulled the plug except it's.........your car!
Best post so far. OK I run a garage and I've been looking through this thread. So you have to take wipers and scuttle panel off to change something? That takes a few minutes so no problem. You have to support the engine to change the timing belt etc? That's been common for years and is easy enough. And so on. I actually had a customer ask me the other day why does his Freelander II 2.2 diesle need a timing belt and why do manufacturers make stuff like that? The answer is because if it breaks the car is basically scrap and they do it because people like you buy them. So don't moan!This will require certificates to be loaded onto the car (that's the bit that gives your the padlock in your web browser up above) so the connected car can talk over an encrypted connection just the same as your web browser. Some component changes will require new certificates to be loaded so you'll need more than spanners to swop some bits out.
There is a sister legislation too UNECE R156, this covers software updates, expect the car to be asking you "There are updates available, install now?" some will update why you are driving, some will wait until you have turned it off, some will want a workshop visit.
Updates whilst driving - the new Brave Pill
Looks to me like the comms will all be turned off once the manufacturer stops providing updates too, you'll be able to drive it but no more remote app starting, updates, nav, spotify or whatever else is built in. It's a bit like Windows XP disappeared after Microsoft pulled the plug except it's.........your car!
Edited by RussBennett on Thursday 11th March 20:03
But, and rant now over, this connected car thing is going to be serious. I've seen it suggested that even things like brake pads and discs will be coded to the car so forget any ideas of home maintenance you may have unless you want to invest heavily in kit to do it and ongoing subscriptions for that kit.
But, beyond that, if the car has connectivity then clever people than I, and with less morals, can and will hack it. At best you come out to your car one morning and it tells you that unless you send a bitcoin to an address your car will never start again. At worst someone sends you into a ditch at 70mph for a laugh! And if you don't believe me then trying fighting against an electric power steering system that doesn't want to accept driver input. I have and it is NOT funny.
Krikkit said:
donkmeister said:
W211 Mercedes E-classes with the SBC braking system - if you don't have a scanner to deactivate the braking system there's a whole procedure to go through involving disconnecting batteries (plural) and/or not opening doors for a particular length of time so that the brake system doesn't engage by itself and push the pistons out. However, to balance the brake stupidity the oil changes are ridiculously easy as it's all done from above.
If you lift all 4 wheels in the air I seem to remember it goes into "workshop mode" and won't activate to avoid doing exactly that.donkmeister said:
K-series engines need frequent cambelt changes. On the F and TF the cambelt runs AROUND an engine mount. So, to replace the cambelt (every 2 or 3 years on the VVCs) you need to unbolt the engine mount and jack the engine up so you can post the belt through the gap.
To be fair the belt running around the engine mount is pretty common on a fair amount of cars. I quite like doing cambelt(s) on F/TF’s; once you get the technique there’s a decent amount of space. VVC is every four years, MPI every six and it’s only a couple of hours worth of work.My nomination for the thread is Ford’s logic of putting the water pump behind the cambelt on their Zetec range of engines, but still driven by the aux belt. What should be a nice simple job turns into a needlessly complex one, as you have to remove the cambelt just to access the pump. Daft!
My distant memory tells me Zafira B pollen filters weren’t nice to change, either.
Citroen C5’s needed half the front of the car dismantling to change a sidelight bulb!
ffhard said:
RussBennett said:
I hate to tell you but the new generation of connected vehicles will require type approval for cyber security before they can be sold. UN ECE Regulation 155 kicks in for new vehicle types post 2024 although it actually started to come in Jan 2021.
This will require certificates to be loaded onto the car (that's the bit that gives your the padlock in your web browser up above) so the connected car can talk over an encrypted connection just the same as your web browser. Some component changes will require new certificates to be loaded so you'll need more than spanners to swop some bits out.
There is a sister legislation too UNECE R156, this covers software updates, expect the car to be asking you "There are updates available, install now?" some will update why you are driving, some will wait until you have turned it off, some will want a workshop visit.
Updates whilst driving - the new Brave Pill
Looks to me like the comms will all be turned off once the manufacturer stops providing updates too, you'll be able to drive it but no more remote app starting, updates, nav, spotify or whatever else is built in. It's a bit like Windows XP disappeared after Microsoft pulled the plug except it's.........your car!
Best post so far. OK I run a garage and I've been looking through this thread. So you have to take wipers and scuttle panel off to change something? That takes a few minutes so no problem. You have to support the engine to change the timing belt etc? That's been common for years and is easy enough. And so on. I actually had a customer ask me the other day why does his Freelander II 2.2 diesle need a timing belt and why do manufacturers make stuff like that? The answer is because if it breaks the car is basically scrap and they do it because people like you buy them. So don't moan!This will require certificates to be loaded onto the car (that's the bit that gives your the padlock in your web browser up above) so the connected car can talk over an encrypted connection just the same as your web browser. Some component changes will require new certificates to be loaded so you'll need more than spanners to swop some bits out.
There is a sister legislation too UNECE R156, this covers software updates, expect the car to be asking you "There are updates available, install now?" some will update why you are driving, some will wait until you have turned it off, some will want a workshop visit.
Updates whilst driving - the new Brave Pill
Looks to me like the comms will all be turned off once the manufacturer stops providing updates too, you'll be able to drive it but no more remote app starting, updates, nav, spotify or whatever else is built in. It's a bit like Windows XP disappeared after Microsoft pulled the plug except it's.........your car!
Edited by RussBennett on Thursday 11th March 20:03
But, and rant now over, this connected car thing is going to be serious. I've seen it suggested that even things like brake pads and discs will be coded to the car so forget any ideas of home maintenance you may have unless you want to invest heavily in kit to do it and ongoing subscriptions for that kit.
But, beyond that, if the car has connectivity then clever people than I, and with less morals, can and will hack it. At best you come out to your car one morning and it tells you that unless you send a bitcoin to an address your car will never start again. At worst someone sends you into a ditch at 70mph for a laugh! And if you don't believe me then trying fighting against an electric power steering system that doesn't want to accept driver input. I have and it is NOT funny.
ffhard said:
RussBennett said:
I hate to tell you but the new generation of connected vehicles will require type approval for cyber security before they can be sold. UN ECE Regulation 155 kicks in for new vehicle types post 2024 although it actually started to come in Jan 2021.
This will require certificates to be loaded onto the car (that's the bit that gives your the padlock in your web browser up above) so the connected car can talk over an encrypted connection just the same as your web browser. Some component changes will require new certificates to be loaded so you'll need more than spanners to swop some bits out.
There is a sister legislation too UNECE R156, this covers software updates, expect the car to be asking you "There are updates available, install now?" some will update why you are driving, some will wait until you have turned it off, some will want a workshop visit.
Updates whilst driving - the new Brave Pill
Looks to me like the comms will all be turned off once the manufacturer stops providing updates too, you'll be able to drive it but no more remote app starting, updates, nav, spotify or whatever else is built in. It's a bit like Windows XP disappeared after Microsoft pulled the plug except it's.........your car!
Best post so far. OK I run a garage and I've been looking through this thread. So you have to take wipers and scuttle panel off to change something? That takes a few minutes so no problem. You have to support the engine to change the timing belt etc? That's been common for years and is easy enough. And so on. I actually had a customer ask me the other day why does his Freelander II 2.2 diesle need a timing belt and why do manufacturers make stuff like that? The answer is because if it breaks the car is basically scrap and they do it because people like you buy them. So don't moan!This will require certificates to be loaded onto the car (that's the bit that gives your the padlock in your web browser up above) so the connected car can talk over an encrypted connection just the same as your web browser. Some component changes will require new certificates to be loaded so you'll need more than spanners to swop some bits out.
There is a sister legislation too UNECE R156, this covers software updates, expect the car to be asking you "There are updates available, install now?" some will update why you are driving, some will wait until you have turned it off, some will want a workshop visit.
Updates whilst driving - the new Brave Pill
Looks to me like the comms will all be turned off once the manufacturer stops providing updates too, you'll be able to drive it but no more remote app starting, updates, nav, spotify or whatever else is built in. It's a bit like Windows XP disappeared after Microsoft pulled the plug except it's.........your car!
Edited by RussBennett on Thursday 11th March 20:03
But, and rant now over, this connected car thing is going to be serious. I've seen it suggested that even things like brake pads and discs will be coded to the car so forget any ideas of home maintenance you may have unless you want to invest heavily in kit to do it and ongoing subscriptions for that kit.
But, beyond that, if the car has connectivity then clever people than I, and with less morals, can and will hack it. At best you come out to your car one morning and it tells you that unless you send a bitcoin to an address your car will never start again. At worst someone sends you into a ditch at 70mph for a laugh! And if you don't believe me then trying fighting against an electric power steering system that doesn't want to accept driver input. I have and it is NOT funny.
csd19 said:
Agree the bulbs were a tad tight at times, OSF I'd remove the secondary air hose from the airbox to give more room, and NSF would just remove the filler neck from the washer bottle to get in.
I did like that engine though, despite it being not particularly efficient/clean (my XFR puts out 270g/km CO2 whereas the Vec was 262g/km with half the power!) it did sound great and made for a very relaxed drive.
Mine was a facelift if that makes any odds, or perhaps you are just more determined than most! I remember that after I'd had a fruitless half-hour removing the washer neck and at least part of the airbox, I still couldn't get to them, the forums revealed that the 2.8T needed the bumper dropped. Made me wish for the Volvo lights that you can slide out for bulbs.I did like that engine though, despite it being not particularly efficient/clean (my XFR puts out 270g/km CO2 whereas the Vec was 262g/km with half the power!) it did sound great and made for a very relaxed drive.
Yes, it was a lovely car... I think that anyone who has absorbed too much Clarkson should spend a few weeks with one and learn what they're missing
I think sometimes it's better to do things at home than let the dealers follow the instructions. I had an occasional misfire on my Toyota Celica and the technician said, "Hmm, I'd sell it before the next service because it'll need a set of spark plugs and it's a full day's job". 🤦🏽♂️
Edited by Arcticfoxman on Friday 12th March 04:21
Quisling said:
landrover discovery and Rangerover spppooorrrrtttaahhhhhhhh
You have to remove the body to change the turbo
What other bloody stupid things out there in fixing land?
It's not that bad, it's only 9 bolts.You have to remove the body to change the turbo
What other bloody stupid things out there in fixing land?
Pit Pony said:
I've sat in Design reviews in the Aerpspace industry with 3d glasses on and the whole wall Having a Trent 1000 projected at it, and the Chief design engineer, asking for the tool envelop to be shown.
And the Cad jockey bringing up a 3D image of the tools in sequence and position.
And the designer being asked specifically about removal times.
I've been to. Industry exhibitions at the NEC where a university had a virtual 3 D model of a Caterham.and you could have a go and the maintenance tasks.
So technology exists. But is the requirement in the spec. If you said " the design must allow the bulbs to be replaced in 5 minutes with no tools in the dark, a designer would have to achieve that.
If you said oil change must take no more than 10 minutes, then thought would need to be put into how.
If I find out who made spark plug replace ment on a V6 omega such a pain, I'll cut his hands with a jubilee clip.
This is why I left my leaking rocker cover gaskets in place. It put me off ever having a V engine in the futureAnd the Cad jockey bringing up a 3D image of the tools in sequence and position.
And the designer being asked specifically about removal times.
I've been to. Industry exhibitions at the NEC where a university had a virtual 3 D model of a Caterham.and you could have a go and the maintenance tasks.
So technology exists. But is the requirement in the spec. If you said " the design must allow the bulbs to be replaced in 5 minutes with no tools in the dark, a designer would have to achieve that.
If you said oil change must take no more than 10 minutes, then thought would need to be put into how.
If I find out who made spark plug replace ment on a V6 omega such a pain, I'll cut his hands with a jubilee clip.
offset said:
Makes me smile, there is the reason why we love old cars, simple to fix, no ecus, no electric devices, (2cv,austin mini, etc)
You obviously never had to change the clutch in a Mini. You were lucky to walk away with any skin on your hands after several hours of swearing at inaccessible bolts.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff