Stupid maintenance requirements
Discussion
Quisling said:
landrover discovery and Rangerover spppooorrrrtttaahhhhhhhh
You have to remove the body to change the turbo
What other bloody stupid things out there in fixing land?
I don’t know if this counts because it’s so old, but to replace the clutch on a Series Land Rover involves removing the gearbox and transfer box, through the cabin and out via the passenger door. This involves removing the floors, transmission tunnel and seat box... You have to remove the body to change the turbo
What other bloody stupid things out there in fixing land?
The spinner of plates said:
Every day a journey said:
pfft, so they'd have you believe - just slide the overlaps and a pair of 19mm joining nuts & bolts either side right?
M22s said:
Headlights which require removal of anything other than the cover, to change filaments drives me mad.
As has been suggested - I think the OEM’s engineer them so average Joe won’t attempt any DIY.
As great as some of the tech is, there is still a lot to be said for the analogue days of old.
I've sat in Design reviews in the Aerpspace industry with 3d glasses on and the whole wall Having a Trent 1000 projected at it, and the Chief design engineer, asking for the tool envelop to be shown. As has been suggested - I think the OEM’s engineer them so average Joe won’t attempt any DIY.
As great as some of the tech is, there is still a lot to be said for the analogue days of old.
And the Cad jockey bringing up a 3D image of the tools in sequence and position.
And the designer being asked specifically about removal times.
I've been to. Industry exhibitions at the NEC where a university had a virtual 3 D model of a Caterham.and you could have a go and the maintenance tasks.
So technology exists. But is the requirement in the spec. If you said " the design must allow the bulbs to be replaced in 5 minutes with no tools in the dark, a designer would have to achieve that.
If you said oil change must take no more than 10 minutes, then thought would need to be put into how.
If I find out who made spark plug replace ment on a V6 omega such a pain, I'll cut his hands with a jubilee clip.
IIRC the cambelt on the Cadillac STS needs changing at 100k miles which is an engine out job. Depreciation on those was so catastrophic that it wasn't a job worth doing.
4th generation F-body is an absolute pain to change the rearmost spark-plugs as there is (virtually) no room at all
4th generation F-body is an absolute pain to change the rearmost spark-plugs as there is (virtually) no room at all
paintman said:
Leon R said:
PH User said:
Leon R said:
Removing the wheel to change a bulb springs immediately to mind.
Looking at you Renault Megane.
That depends which generation of Megane that you are looking at. Some are very easy to change bulbs. Looking at you Renault Megane.
They went one better for the side light bulb. Bumper off. I kid you not. I was sure there would be a workaround. Not that I could find or in any of the Renault forums. Thought I'd better replace both whilst I was at it!
Pit Pony said:
M22s said:
Headlights which require removal of anything other than the cover, to change filaments drives me mad.
As has been suggested - I think the OEM’s engineer them so average Joe won’t attempt any DIY.
As great as some of the tech is, there is still a lot to be said for the analogue days of old.
I've sat in Design reviews in the Aerpspace industry with 3d glasses on and the whole wall Having a Trent 1000 projected at it, and the Chief design engineer, asking for the tool envelop to be shown. As has been suggested - I think the OEM’s engineer them so average Joe won’t attempt any DIY.
As great as some of the tech is, there is still a lot to be said for the analogue days of old.
And the Cad jockey bringing up a 3D image of the tools in sequence and position.
And the designer being asked specifically about removal times.
I've been to. Industry exhibitions at the NEC where a university had a virtual 3 D model of a Caterham.and you could have a go and the maintenance tasks.
So technology exists. But is the requirement in the spec. If you said " the design must allow the bulbs to be replaced in 5 minutes with no tools in the dark, a designer would have to achieve that.
If you said oil change must take no more than 10 minutes, then thought would need to be put into how.
If I find out who made spark plug replace ment on a V6 omega such a pain, I'll cut his hands with a jubilee clip.
Pit Pony said:
M22s said:
Headlights which require removal of anything other than the cover, to change filaments drives me mad.
As has been suggested - I think the OEM’s engineer them so average Joe won’t attempt any DIY.
As great as some of the tech is, there is still a lot to be said for the analogue days of old.
I've sat in Design reviews in the Aerpspace industry with 3d glasses on and the whole wall Having a Trent 1000 projected at it, and the Chief design engineer, asking for the tool envelop to be shown. As has been suggested - I think the OEM’s engineer them so average Joe won’t attempt any DIY.
As great as some of the tech is, there is still a lot to be said for the analogue days of old.
And the Cad jockey bringing up a 3D image of the tools in sequence and position.
And the designer being asked specifically about removal times.
I've been to. Industry exhibitions at the NEC where a university had a virtual 3 D model of a Caterham.and you could have a go and the maintenance tasks.
So technology exists. But is the requirement in the spec. If you said " the design must allow the bulbs to be replaced in 5 minutes with no tools in the dark, a designer would have to achieve that.
If you said oil change must take no more than 10 minutes, then thought would need to be put into how.
If I find out who made spark plug replace ment on a V6 omega such a pain, I'll cut his hands with a jubilee clip.
ExPat2B said:
Dude, take your ring off when working on cars, its like a ring pull for your finger, it is also highly conductive and on your left hand which puts your heart in the ground path for anything live, and you can also short something straight across it which is a real nasty burn on something you can't take off easily. And buy a pair of work gloves https://www.workgloves.co.uk/hexarmor-chrome-serie...
From the looks of it I'd say replacing the plugs on a V6 Omega would be easier than removing that ring!I suspect that by now we have realized that this issue is down to the way modern cars are designed and `built'? assembled? mainly to make it easy for factory personnel to just plug in completed modules, as the vehicle goes through their work station. Getting to some of these modules or a part of a module that has failed in use, is not high up in the list of priorities.
Pan Pan Pan said:
I suspect that by now we have realized that this issue is down to the way modern cars are designed and `built'? assembled? mainly to make it easy for factory personnel to just plug in completed modules, as the vehicle goes through their work station. Getting to some of these modules or a part of a module that has failed in use, is not high up in the list of priorities.
So they make them trickier to build but easier to fix? Great, but that will make them more expensive and everyone is already moaning about cars being too expensive. 
PH User said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
I suspect that by now we have realized that this issue is down to the way modern cars are designed and `built'? assembled? mainly to make it easy for factory personnel to just plug in completed modules, as the vehicle goes through their work station. Getting to some of these modules or a part of a module that has failed in use, is not high up in the list of priorities.
So they make them trickier to build but easier to fix? Great, but that will make them more expensive and everyone is already moaning about cars being too expensive. But if anyone is going to have the equipment to design, and build a car with its `inevitable' ongoing maintenance in mind, it will be the manufacturers, and not the punters who buy them.
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