Stupid maintenance requirements

[Limpet]

M22s said:

Little Pete said:

Renault Scenic heater motor replacement.

It’s no wonder the bloody things develop rattles

I used to own a Scenic II, and only the strongest belief in coincidence would prevent you from concluding that the car was deliberately designed to make maintenance as difficult and frustrating as possible. It's almost like the design went through a special team of sadists at some point before it was finalised.

[Skyrocket21]

Pan Pan Pan said:

I suspect that by now we have realized that this issue is down to the way modern cars are designed and `built'? assembled? mainly to make it easy for factory personnel to just plug in completed modules, as the vehicle goes through their work station. Getting to some of these modules or a part of a module that has failed in use, is not high up in the list of priorities.

Well demonstrated here: https://youtu.be/X_n5RI5700E?t=1130 showing the Skoda Octavia assembly line, thats the whole drivetrain going in as one unit, unbelievable how quick it is.

[psi310398]

I remember a particularly eye watering bill for changing a bit in the turbo of my Saab 9000 where the part cost was £0.99 and the labour was six or seven hundred pounds.

Apparently half the contents of the engine bay had to be removed to get to the turbo. Designed that way presumably because a turbo failing was such a rare phenomenon...

[Pan Pan Pan]

bobtail4x4 said:

Its been going on for a while, the early 68-72 scimitars had a heater that filled the vent with dead leaves, but needed either the engine or gearbox removing to access it,
10 min job once you can get at it.

Just getting to the back two spark plugs was a pain in the a*se too,

[MC Bodge]

Mk5 Mondeo headlamp bulbs require the front bumper (many fasteners, some of which require knuckle-scraping and not to be replaced after the first time)to be mostly removed.

Ideal on a dark night at the side of the road, it is not. A slight change to the design could have prevented the need for this.

[sideways man]

All these tales remind me of why I left the motor industry, to go and work on aircraft .One of my last jobs was a clutch slave cylinder change on the original Mercedes A class. It took four days as it seemed the car was designed around this one item!

[Sportidge]

TinyMonster said:

F50 clutch change still makes me smile.

Very similar with the BMW R1200 bikes for a clutch change....

[Pan Pan Pan]

Pit Pony said:

M22s said:

Headlights which require removal of anything other than the cover, to change filaments drives me mad.

As has been suggested - I think the OEM’s engineer them so average Joe won’t attempt any DIY.

As great as some of the tech is, there is still a lot to be said for the analogue days of old.

I've sat in Design reviews in the Aerpspace industry with 3d glasses on and the whole wall Having a Trent 1000 projected at it, and the Chief design engineer, asking for the tool envelop to be shown.

And the Cad jockey bringing up a 3D image of the tools in sequence and position.

And the designer being asked specifically about removal times.

I've been to. Industry exhibitions at the NEC where a university had a virtual 3 D model of a Caterham.and you could have a go and the maintenance tasks.

So technology exists. But is the requirement in the spec. If you said " the design must allow the bulbs to be replaced in 5 minutes with no tools in the dark, a designer would have to achieve that.

If you said oil change must take no more than 10 minutes, then thought would need to be put into how.

If I find out who made spark plug replace ment on a V6 omega such a pain, I'll cut his hands with a jubilee clip.

Please forgive me, but I used to suffer from this too, and a mechanic friend told me it was known as `Idiot rash' in the trade.
He added that if mechanics f*cked up their hands (or any part of their anatomy) working on vehicles on a daily basis, they would not last very long.
He added that part of the strategy was to work out where the idiot rash might strike, and this included using inappropriate, and / or low quality tools.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Sportidge said:

TinyMonster said:

F50 clutch change still makes me smile.

Very similar with the BMW R1200 bikes for a clutch change....

Now that! is what I call a f*rt

[lufbramatt]

My Honda Jazz daily... to get to the spark plugs means dismantling the entire scuttle and removing the wipers as the plugs are on the back of the cylinder head tucked up under the bottom of the windscreen

fuel filter change is from the inside of the car and you have to take out all the centre console and lower dash

Even the pollen filter involves taking the glovebox out!

[CambsBill]

Had to get the brake light switch replaced on my Atom last year. Given how open the car is you'd think you could just reach in and do it, no problems but no, the windscreen had to be taken off!

[OllieJolly]

Many Insignias with the 2.0 CDTI need the gearbox removing to take the sump off and replace the oil pickup O-ring.
Some have cutouts in the gearbox housing to access bolts without removing, as did our Astra, fortunately, but it's still a royal PITA to do.

My Focus is the best car I've had for changing bulbs, one screw, headlight pops out, free bulb access!

[MC Bodge]

OllieJolly said:

My Focus is the best car I've had for changing bulbs, one screw, headlight pops out, free bulb access!

If only Ford USA had seen one of those when they designed the Fusion or Ford Europe had changed it for the Mondeo-ised Fusion.

[Oilchange]

Clutch master cylinder on a Rover 75 CDTi. I dare you to even try...


You'll then find out it was the slave cylinder inside the bellhousing that was leaking and you'll scrap the car in a furious huff.

[InfoRetrieval]

lufbramatt said:

My Honda Jazz daily... to get to the spark plugs means dismantling the entire scuttle and removing the wipers as the plugs are on the back of the cylinder head tucked up under the bottom of the windscreen

fuel filter change is from the inside of the car and you have to take out all the centre console and lower dash

Even the pollen filter involves taking the glovebox out!

Which model Honda Jazz is this?

My wife's MK1 Jazz also needs the glovebox taken out to change the pollen filter, but it needs no tools and can be done in less than a minute. I considered that design a work of genius.

[LochTay]

[quote]Well demonstrated here: https://youtu.be/X_n5RI5700E?t=1130 showing the Skoda Octavia assembly line, thats the whole drivetrain going in as one unit, unbelievable how quick it is.
[/quote]

Does this mean it would be quicker to use supports and hoist to lift body off engine to do some major work now?

[lufbramatt]

InfoRetrieval said:

lufbramatt said:

My Honda Jazz daily... to get to the spark plugs means dismantling the entire scuttle and removing the wipers as the plugs are on the back of the cylinder head tucked up under the bottom of the windscreen

fuel filter change is from the inside of the car and you have to take out all the centre console and lower dash

Even the pollen filter involves taking the glovebox out!

Which model Honda Jazz is this?

My wife's MK1 Jazz also needs the glovebox taken out to change the pollen filter, but it needs no tools and can be done in less than a minute. I considered that design a work of genius.

Mk2. Yea it's simple enough but still means emptying all the CDs/leaflets/receipts etc out of the glovebox! On my BMW you just open the lid of the housing, swap them over.

It is a very cleverly packaged car, not many other cars the same external size that will happily swallow two adults, two kids, a buggy and assorted baby stuff, so there have to be trade-offs somewhere. Just wish it was slightly easier to work on as now it's at an age where I don't want to be taking it to a garage and spending a fortune on it for what should be simple stuff.

A year or so ago it had to have a new injector and a new ECU, I've since found various fasteners missing from the scuttle and engine bay so evidently even the Honda techs got fed up with the amount if stuff they had to take to bits to get access.

Edited by lufbramatt on Wednesday 3rd March 13:53

[waynecyclist]

Oilchange said:

Clutch master cylinder on a Rover 75 CDTi. I dare you to even try...


You'll then find out it was the slave cylinder inside the bellhousing that was leaking and you'll scrap the car in a furious huff.

Topping up the clutch fluid was a nightmare let alone replacing the master cylinder.

[clarkey]

A Discovery 3 has fuses behind the glovebox. Try removing one with normal sized hands without pliers, there is a bloody great lump of sharp bodywork in the way.

[Adam205]

ruggedscotty said:

lots im afraid - as the average joe got brighter and more able to some diy then it becomes a fight to stop him and get that car into a dealer for work...

electric parking brakes requiring to be connected to a marque PC to enable it to be reset ? makes those rear pads or disc changes even more complicated.

Having to code anything onot your car, change a battery... need to code it... and the like.

Oh and my pet hate is headlights that need air intakes stripped out to get in and about them...


everything they can think on to force you to take it in for repair lol..

With most EPB you can change the rear pads with a 12v battery on the caliper connections to wind the piston back. A few clicks of the parking brake button afterwards to make sure its all settled and its good. No need to reset anything, actually easier than a normal 'parking brake in caliper' arrangment!