RE: New Mercedes-AMG C63 confirmed as 650hp hybrid

RE: New Mercedes-AMG C63 confirmed as 650hp hybrid

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Discussion

Syndrome280

246 posts

75 months

Wednesday 31st March
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Harry_523 said:
"oh no, a fast C class has a 4 cylinder".... 190E Cosworth anyone?
Probably not the greatest argument to the pairing, the 190E wasn’t particularly quick even when released.

AMG’s of recent years, well the last 30 or so, have always had more of a German muscle car vibe for anything of a C-class or bigger, the genesis of this identity arguably being the AMG Hammer.

I get times change but quickly snapping from a V8 bi-turbo to a 4-pot hybrid is an extremely jarring change, a V6 hybrid might have been a bit more in keeping.

rev-erend

20,883 posts

248 months

Wednesday 31st March
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frown

Hairymonster

800 posts

69 months

Wednesday 31st March
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Well we can't say we didn't see it coming, but then again I guess that's what the box of tissues is for!

This new car has, for me, all the appeal of a mid-90's spec Vauxhall Cavalier 1.6L that's been used as a hen house.

Leins

7,792 posts

112 months

Wednesday 31st March
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I wonder will Brabus fill the gap here then?

F20CN16

8,271 posts

162 months

Wednesday 31st March
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s2000db said:
Sad development..

Can someone tell me what’s the point of hybrids? Aside from being able to throw ‘low’ consumption/emission results under test conditions, they don’t really deliver under ‘most’ real-world scenarios.
Surely high efficiency petrol/diesel, or all electric drivetrains are the only practical alternatives currently?
Range when you need it. Zero tailpipe emissions when you need it.

The problem is nearly all PHEVs take hours to charge their tiny packs (7kW on many of them so it takes a few hours). If you are on a very long journey you are not going to wait 2-3 hours to charge the battery. So lord knows what that does to the economy. They should have fast charge capability like a BEV, but I suspect the cost is the reason most of them don’t.

Edited by F20CN16 on Wednesday 31st March 08:51

TyrannosauRoss Lex

26,709 posts

176 months

Wednesday 31st March
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s2000db said:
Sad development..

Can someone tell me what’s the point of hybrids? Aside from being able to throw ‘low’ consumption/emission results under test conditions, they don’t really deliver under ‘most’ real-world scenarios.
Surely high efficiency petrol/diesel, or all electric drivetrains are the only practical alternatives currently?
Because many car journeys are short trips, and for short trips when you can basically use exclusively electric power they are more efficient than ICE only, by some margin. Thought everyone knew that?

kambites

60,950 posts

185 months

Wednesday 31st March
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Filibuster said:
I really fo wonder wether it wouldn‘t have been better if they would have gotten from V8 to fully electric.
That was my first thought when this was first rumored last year; it feels like they've gone for the worst of both worlds.

Black AMG45s

487 posts

123 months

Wednesday 31st March
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I am rather a fan of the A45 I have owned all three versions bought my A45s last September and very pleased with it
When I replace it in 3 1/2 years hopefully they put the new engine in it
Tuning mine is running just over 504 BHP with remap

It is no surprise the V8 is going but it begins a new era

loveice

614 posts

211 months

Wednesday 31st March
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What’s the point of having the 4-pot at all? Why not just go for full electric? I mean with all the technology advancement, this new C63 will still be slower than a ten year old Tesla, and it will still emit more CO2...

RJH777

56 posts

6 months

Wednesday 31st March
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There goes the only reason to buy one of these over the equivalent BMW (although you've now got a choice of the awful BMW grille or this...)

Looks like I'll be getting the Alfa Quadrafoglio when it comes to change cars then.

BigChiefmuffinAgain

457 posts

62 months

Wednesday 31st March
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I have owned many 8 cylinder cars in my time, including a Ferrari 328 and an Alpina B10 V8s and I think all this moaning over its demise is vastly over done. My daily is now a BMW 328 with a 2 litre turbo and it's a great engine - what you lose in the soundtrack you make up in having a far lighter engine up front, and far more low down torque.

I think the next C63 will be a fantastic car. Sticking a big heavy motor up front is never going to produce a great handling product, no matter how much they try to push it as close to the middle as possible...

kambites

60,950 posts

185 months

Wednesday 31st March
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Black AMG45s said:
It is no surprise the V8 is going but it begins a new era
I don't think you can call it a "new era" when there will almost certainly only be one hybrid model before full electrification.

Spiros115

33 posts

14 months

Wednesday 31st March
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A predictable and stereotypical response of doom from all and sundry, I mean no-one has driven the car, no-one has heard the car and no-one has even seen it.

I have no doubt this is a stepping stone power train whilst infrastructure and battery capacity improve and the move to full EV is made, yet it still represents a sizeable shift in technology. I mean who on earth wants the same engine turned out time and time again with a slightly improved state of tune, resulting in 50 additional hp and £10k extra on the price? There will be plenty of used v8s available too for all those who want a classic ice car in the future!

The most disappointing aspect about this car seems that it won’t have any significant electric only range. If it’s still around 20 miles only then IMO it’s achieving nothing, high performance that’s good for the planet has to be the goal, not a hybrid tax dodge with a ridiculous WLTP mpg stat.

pb8g09

806 posts

33 months

Wednesday 31st March
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Spiros115 said:
I have no doubt this is a stepping stone power train whilst infrastructure and battery capacity improve and the move to full EV is made, yet it still represents a sizeable shift in technology. I mean who on earth wants the same engine turned out time and time again with a slightly improved state of tune, resulting in 50 additional hp and £10k extra on the price? There will be plenty of used v8s available too for all those who want a classic ice car in the future!
I take your point, but equally, nobody gets annoyed when Sky Sports roll out 'another' attractive female presenter, that's 10% prettier than the last...

In all seriousness though, if they're going to remove the USP of the product and make people purchase an unwanted drivetrain just to have a quick car, well, you could argue it's now no more appealing than a BMW 340d for the private user.


loudlashadjuster

3,997 posts

148 months

Wednesday 31st March
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I'm old enough to remember when the doomsayers were confidently predicting the move from thumping 6.2 V8 to a weedy turbo 4.0 was a travesty and absolutely the death knell for the C63...

I can lament the loss of the V8 as much as anyone, but lets see what the car is like first, eh?

MDL111

5,293 posts

141 months

Wednesday 31st March
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I think this might be quite a good car - I am not really a buyer for these types of cars (M3, C63, RS Audis), but if I were/had a need for one, I would probably look at this very closely. I have a Mercedes V8, do not necessarily need another one - variety is the spice of life etc. [for the same reason I would quite like an electric car, I just don't want to give up other cars for it if that makes sense]

Spiros115

33 posts

14 months

Wednesday 31st March
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pb8g09 said:
Spiros115 said:
I have no doubt this is a stepping stone power train whilst infrastructure and battery capacity improve and the move to full EV is made, yet it still represents a sizeable shift in technology. I mean who on earth wants the same engine turned out time and time again with a slightly improved state of tune, resulting in 50 additional hp and £10k extra on the price? There will be plenty of used v8s available too for all those who want a classic ice car in the future!
I take your point, but equally, nobody gets annoyed when Sky Sports roll out 'another' attractive female presenter, that's 10% prettier than the last...

In all seriousness though, if they're going to remove the USP of the product and make people purchase an unwanted drivetrain just to have a quick car, well, you could argue it's now no more appealing than a BMW 340d for the private user.
“Unwanted drivetrain” what amongst this thread? Maybe Mercedes research is a little more comprehensive than a few grumbling PHers?

Is it telling that the few positive comments seem to come from those that have either owned a45s with a version of the same engine or have actually owned v8s...

filski666

3,676 posts

156 months

Wednesday 31st March
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RIP AMG weeping

On a more practical point - looking at the size of that EDU - I am guessing there is naff all boot space in that car?


pb8g09

806 posts

33 months

Wednesday 31st March
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Spiros115 said:
“Unwanted drivetrain” what amongst this thread? Maybe Mercedes research is a little more comprehensive than a few grumbling PHers?

Is it telling that the few positive comments seem to come from those that have either owned a45s with a version of the same engine or have actually owned v8s...
That's quite a contradiction. One sentence challenges me for using the demographic of this thread for my argument (I didn't by the way, I used the general trend on every single online discussion I've read about the new C63 powertrain...).

And then the next sentence you use comments from this thread to argue the other way...

You didn't tackle my pertinent point though, that the USP of the C63 has always been it's engine and without it, I believe will significantly impact it's appeal. Happy to admit I'm wrong in x years if sales have outgrown the previous editions however...


culpz

4,638 posts

76 months

Wednesday 31st March
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That new G80 M3 isn't looking too bad now, is it? wink

I believe this whole new Mercedes C-Class range will all be 4-cylinder hybrids too. BMW are gonna walk away with the marketplace, especially when they will still sell you a 6-cylinder petrol and diesel variants.

650 bhp is still an astonishing amount of power, but I'm not sure it's quire the consolation prize for an engine reserved for a hatchback. It also makes you wonder how much the thing is going to weigh.