What happened to genuinely posh cars and their targets?
Discussion
Harry Flashman said:
The shadow was definitely one for vulgarians in its day. The Corniche was for the truly nouveau riche. The latter is of course now fawned over as some sort of old-money conveyance.
The old boy that you respect as he whispers his immaculate Corniche convertible through London may well have spent the 80s driving it to parties whilst high on coke, bought with the proceeds of his success as an 18 year old barrow boy trader in the City.
Bentley GTC may follow a similar path, you mark my words.
That latter part is amusingly true but the Shadow was a wagon that like many modern premium cars attracted a wide spread. The old boy that you respect as he whispers his immaculate Corniche convertible through London may well have spent the 80s driving it to parties whilst high on coke, bought with the proceeds of his success as an 18 year old barrow boy trader in the City.
Bentley GTC may follow a similar path, you mark my words.
In truth, I don't think cars themselves portray that much but rather that the perception is more defined by where one lives or how one lives.
It's a bit like some posters who say that all RR Sports are driven by chavs and gangsters when in reality we know that not to be the case and what it probably means is that the poster happens to live in an area where there are a lot of chavs and gangsters. Pop along to Essex and you will see a lot of heavily made up people, Savilling about in Sports, head out to the Cotswolds and the people driving around in them will be the polar opposite.
Lord Cunnington Smythe said:
DonkeyApple said:
NomduJour said:
DonkeyApple said:
the massive change in the equality of income allowed those who were traditionally trapped in blue collar wages to have white collar incomes and the increased purchasing power.
Widespread ability to rent rather than pay - £700 p/m is easier to find than £70k.Its complete and b#llocks. The class system that was alluded to at the beginning is nothing more than one-upmanship so be happy with what you have no matter what the circumstances and enjoy the peace of mind that it brings, it's so liberating.
Aspiring to materialism turns you into a slave to stuff and rejecting materialism sets you free from stuff.
It's really a no brainer.
There is something to this. I have chased material possessions increasingly as income has grown, and it has not made me happier.
I had to check myself recently when about to buy a 100k Ferrari, in London, and realised that this was completely unnecessary and in fact financially very unwise given the likelihood of such cars being banned here one day.
I have a lot of stuff. None of it, apart from my home, improves my life as family man with little time on his hands to enjoy it.having not spent on travel, my spend g on stuff over Lockdown became unhealthy. I don't do debt, I save, but instead of saving spare cash I bought gadgets. Mainly for the garden as it became my mental health lifesaver during Lockdown and havi g a new baby in Lockdown. Still, I don't really need the petrol garden vacuum, here in London, for example...
Recently, local friends and I have started sharing ownership of cars, so they get used regularly and costs are lower. A 2006 Gransport LE was bought this way and gets used every weekend, as these cars need to be.
My CLS AMG will be sold soon, and my part ownership of an old Maserati, full ownership of a couple of even older 90s convertibles, and a cheaply leased Nissan Leaf runabout will still be too many things.
This thread, like the best conversations, is veering into lots of topics.
I had to check myself recently when about to buy a 100k Ferrari, in London, and realised that this was completely unnecessary and in fact financially very unwise given the likelihood of such cars being banned here one day.
I have a lot of stuff. None of it, apart from my home, improves my life as family man with little time on his hands to enjoy it.having not spent on travel, my spend g on stuff over Lockdown became unhealthy. I don't do debt, I save, but instead of saving spare cash I bought gadgets. Mainly for the garden as it became my mental health lifesaver during Lockdown and havi g a new baby in Lockdown. Still, I don't really need the petrol garden vacuum, here in London, for example...
Recently, local friends and I have started sharing ownership of cars, so they get used regularly and costs are lower. A 2006 Gransport LE was bought this way and gets used every weekend, as these cars need to be.
My CLS AMG will be sold soon, and my part ownership of an old Maserati, full ownership of a couple of even older 90s convertibles, and a cheaply leased Nissan Leaf runabout will still be too many things.
This thread, like the best conversations, is veering into lots of topics.
Edited by Harry Flashman on Saturday 10th April 13:30
Deep Thought said:
Lord Cunnington Smythe said:
Only its not an overtly better world when a third of the adult population suffer from or have suffered from some sort of battle with depression or mental illness. In my profession I deal with clients every day who do and the main cause ? Materialism. People basing their self worth on how much stuff they have, measuring themselves against other people who have more stuff so they compete against each other. People projecting perfect lives on social media, the house, the car, the gadgets, so as a society we are constantly trying to have more stuff than the next man because that means we are somehow better than them, more successful.
Its complete and b#llocks. The class system that was alluded to at the beginning is nothing more than one-upmanship so be happy with what you have no matter what the circumstances and enjoy the peace of mind that it brings, it's so liberating.
You seem to be implying there you have a medical qualification and you have drawn that professional conclusion?Its complete and b#llocks. The class system that was alluded to at the beginning is nothing more than one-upmanship so be happy with what you have no matter what the circumstances and enjoy the peace of mind that it brings, it's so liberating.
Have you any documented evidence that is the main cause of depression because it doesnt seem to come up as one in any medical reasons i've seen?
DonkeyApple said:
That latter part is amusingly true but the Shadow was a wagon that like many modern premium cars attracted a wide spread.
In truth, I don't think cars themselves portray that much but rather that the perception is more defined by where one lives or how one lives.
It's a bit like some posters who say that all RR Sports are driven by chavs and gangsters when in reality we know that not to be the case and what it probably means is that the poster happens to live in an area where there are a lot of chavs and gangsters. Pop along to Essex and you will see a lot of heavily made up people, Savilling about in Sports, head out to the Cotswolds and the people driving around in them will be the polar opposite.
I bet (if private car ownership continues as a widespread thing, which maybe it won't) that today's kids will be looking at then-cars in 20 or 30 years and going "these are horrid, what happened to classy car design, like the range-rover sphhooorrr-tah"In truth, I don't think cars themselves portray that much but rather that the perception is more defined by where one lives or how one lives.
It's a bit like some posters who say that all RR Sports are driven by chavs and gangsters when in reality we know that not to be the case and what it probably means is that the poster happens to live in an area where there are a lot of chavs and gangsters. Pop along to Essex and you will see a lot of heavily made up people, Savilling about in Sports, head out to the Cotswolds and the people driving around in them will be the polar opposite.
Harry Flashman said:
The people you describe are folks whose Dad did well in trade, and was already from a middle class family. They are the ones with signet rings with false family crests, and pretensions of nobility.
This, in spades.They are the ones braying loudly about how their last shooting weekend went, or where they are 'wintering' next year.
Harry Flashman said:
Yes they do. But do they ever get a thank you from you plebs, or a doffing of a cap?
No, they f
king don't. But that's not the most annoying part for me.
No, the most annoying part is that these clowns advocate for stuff that already happens! They literally don't know what they're talking about.
"The rich should pay more in tax."
They do! We have a progressive tax system someone earning the average salary (£38,600) pays a total of 22.5% in income tax and national insurance, while someone in the top 10% (earning £59,000) pays 27.3%, and someone in the top 1% (earning £188,000) pays 41.1%.
"People who amass wealth and don't spend it should be taxed."
Well, if you amass wealth and don't spend it, eventually you'll die and the taxman will take 40% in inheritance tax of everything over £325,000.
If you do spend it, you're almost certainly paying 20% VAT. That's after you've already paid 40% or more in income tax.
I don't mind if someone knows what they're talking about but still thinks that tax rates should be higher or that tax-free allowances or thresholds should be lower. At least they have an informed opinion, instead of just spouting ill-informed, prejudiced, gibberish born of envy. But the vast, vast majority of the "Tax the rich 'til they squeak!" mob don't know what the f
k they're talking about and, in the Internet age, where the world's information - and an informed opinion - is just a Google search away, there's no excuse for ignorance. And maybe it's no coincidence that such folks aren't rich - if they're too lazy to equip themselves with the facts in order to form an informed opinion, it's no wonder they're too f
king lazy to put the effort into improving their lot in life. Now excuse me while I go light a cigar with a £20 note and crack open a bottle of Dom.
sasha320 said:
The seriously rich structure their finances so they spend their money first and get taxed on what’s left...
Explain to me how that works?sasha320 said:
..tax that gets legally avoided...
See, there's your problem. Those pesky laws! We should just make it illegal to be richer than you, eh?
MadCaptainJack said:
Harry Flashman said:
Yes they do. But do they ever get a thank you from you plebs, or a doffing of a cap?
No, they fking don't. But that's not the most annoying part for me.
No, the most annoying part is that these clowns advocate for stuff that already happens! They literally don't know what they're talking about.
"The rich should pay more in tax."
They do! We have a progressive tax system someone earning the average salary (£38,600) pays a total of 22.5% in income tax and national insurance, while someone in the top 10% (earning £59,000) pays 27.3%, and someone in the top 1% (earning £188,000) pays 41.1%.
"People who amass wealth and don't spend it should be taxed."
Well, if you amass wealth and don't spend it, eventually you'll die and the taxman will take 40% in inheritance tax of everything over £325,000.
If you do spend it, you're almost certainly paying 20% VAT. That's after you've already paid 40% or more in income tax.
I don't mind if someone knows what they're talking about but still thinks that tax rates should be higher or that tax-free allowances or thresholds should be lower. At least they have an informed opinion, instead of just spouting ill-informed, prejudiced, gibberish born of envy. But the vast, vast majority of the "Tax the rich 'til they squeak!" mob don't know what the f
k they're talking about and, in the Internet age, where the world's information - and an informed opinion - is just a Google search away, there's no excuse for ignorance. And maybe it's no coincidence that such folks aren't rich - if they're too lazy to equip themselves with the facts in order to form an informed opinion, it's no wonder they're too f
king lazy to put the effort into improving their lot in life. Now excuse me while I go light a cigar with a £20 note and crack open a bottle of Dom.
True story.
RMDB9 said:
What about an extra tax for graduating from Oxford, Cambridge or South Bank University, because these people have an advantage over others and made more money.
Isn't that what income tax bands achieve? Along with all the other taxes? Hence why the bulk of the unavoidable, non optional tax raised is raised from the more affluent?The reality is that we live in an amazing country where most taxes are actually optional and those that are unavoidable are mostly levied on those that can afford it at increasing rates. Rates that start at zero!!!
Can anyone find a significant tax which is punitive to the poor over the affluent?
sasha320 said:
This impression of pragmatic frugal behaviour is exactly what 3rd+ Inter-generational wealth want you to think.
The truth is that these people at the end of inter-generational wealth are largely cashless.
They are presenting the frugal approach as a higher order of intelligence and a way of life but in truth they are covering up for the fact that they don’t have the wit or motivation to create wealth at all. The vast majority are doing very well to not break up the trusts and sell all the assets.
Agree 100%: they are often asset rich but cash poor, and don't want to liquidate the family pile. The classic "nouveau riche" insult is just a cover for their insecurity. My experience is that if people have surplus income, they tend to spend at least some of it on nice things.The truth is that these people at the end of inter-generational wealth are largely cashless.
They are presenting the frugal approach as a higher order of intelligence and a way of life but in truth they are covering up for the fact that they don’t have the wit or motivation to create wealth at all. The vast majority are doing very well to not break up the trusts and sell all the assets.
MadCaptainJack said:
sasha320 said:
The seriously rich structure their finances so they spend their money first and get taxed on what’s left...
Explain to me how that works?Hint - PAYE vs Corporation / Dividend Tax, then have a look at discretionary Trusts and the tax rules that surround those. Whilst you’re there, also check out shell companies, the conditions around tax exiles and offshore banking.
sasha320 said:
..tax that gets legally avoided...
See, there's your problem. Those pesky laws! We should just make it illegal to be richer than you, eh?Happy to debate when you’re up to speed, but I’m not going to do your research for you.
MadCaptainJack said:
I know. Very inconsiderate of the Old Lady.
That's why I keep a stack of the old paper notes around.
I prefer the burn of a £50 note myself, but my couple a day cigars are a more budget than yours. Plus I like to burn my notes while wearing tracksuit bottoms.That's why I keep a stack of the old paper notes around.
I really must re-twine the Volvo this evening.
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