RE: AC Cobra 4-electric lineup expanded
Discussion
Olivergt said:
I understand the need to move to electric.
What I don't understand is the electrification of cars that will only be driven a few thousand miles a year. It simply doesn't make sense from an environmental point of view. The environmental costs of EV batteries means that an EV needs to be driven a long way before it comes out better than an ICE car, products like this and converting other classics to electric does nothing for the environment.
I have always advocated taxing pollution when it is emitted, not on your ability to pollute, for example, if the tax was on petrol, if you chose to have a big V12 but only drove 3k a year, you would actually be polluting less than the salesman in his 4 pot driving 30k a year. Tax the actual pollution not the ability to pollute.
I'm going to stick my neck out and say that these will be a bit of a novelty for a few years, but then sales will drift off.
And my solution, I would like to see the ban on no more ICE after year X removed for smaller manufacturers where the total pollution is less than X for example.
I haven't got any figures for this, but I wouldn't mind betting that the total pollution of all AC Cobras for a year is probably less than one cargo ship emits sailing between China and Europe in a year.
Whole heartedly agree with your post, but that would be too wise and intelligent for any policy maker, or in the alternative, fail to meet their MO which is to encourage new industries and create tax income. What I don't understand is the electrification of cars that will only be driven a few thousand miles a year. It simply doesn't make sense from an environmental point of view. The environmental costs of EV batteries means that an EV needs to be driven a long way before it comes out better than an ICE car, products like this and converting other classics to electric does nothing for the environment.
I have always advocated taxing pollution when it is emitted, not on your ability to pollute, for example, if the tax was on petrol, if you chose to have a big V12 but only drove 3k a year, you would actually be polluting less than the salesman in his 4 pot driving 30k a year. Tax the actual pollution not the ability to pollute.
I'm going to stick my neck out and say that these will be a bit of a novelty for a few years, but then sales will drift off.
And my solution, I would like to see the ban on no more ICE after year X removed for smaller manufacturers where the total pollution is less than X for example.
I haven't got any figures for this, but I wouldn't mind betting that the total pollution of all AC Cobras for a year is probably less than one cargo ship emits sailing between China and Europe in a year.
ZesPak said:
No reason it has to be a model 3. Take your Lambo, how long will they keep making them like that when they are literally getting passed left and right by electric sport cars?
Sure, now these are still a million quid, but prices will come down on them as well.
Sure, we grew up with V12s on the bedroom wall, but you only have to see what a Rimac does to a high end Ferrari to know it's happening. While we might seek engagement, the amount of paddle shifters that are sold vs the amount of manuals when given the option is telling enough to what people want.
You are missing the point, it is already "slow" compared to my EV. Even most BMWs or Audi's are probably quicker. The value of manual V12s has already picked up, a good example is the 599, you can pick up a 599 for £59,000 or there is a manual 599 for £540,000 (more than a GTO) Sure, now these are still a million quid, but prices will come down on them as well.
Sure, we grew up with V12s on the bedroom wall, but you only have to see what a Rimac does to a high end Ferrari to know it's happening. While we might seek engagement, the amount of paddle shifters that are sold vs the amount of manuals when given the option is telling enough to what people want.
What people should have bought and what they did is not a straight correlation, the manual version was a no cost option at the time.
The AC Cobra illustrated this quite well, it was already out of date in '65. They made the Daytona coupe, but even that was playing catch up with the Lola T30b, GT40s and the other mid engined cars, but it is still being sold now with the same formula of a 7 litre and 4 speed.
My question over the EV conversion of the AC Cobra is that who is buying them? A bit like a paddle shift kits for a Cobra it is the wrong tech for the wrong car.
They have sold 8 Rimac concept ones out of the 88 they planned since launching it in 2017 and this doesn't diminish their path or where they are going, he is doing better out of projects away from the cars and investors are foaming.
But lets see in 5 years how this is is seen when for the same price you could have bought a T50.
julian64 said:
Whats going on with the bottom right cobra there. The front intake looks squashed
That is the original body style used on the 289 Cobras. The rest are the style as created by Shelby as he developed the 427. The wheel arches are the giveaway as well to identify the 289, being what today are termed the "slabside" body. The AC Ace had those flattened wheel arches.This AC Ace with a 120hp Bristol *BMW* 2 litre 6 cylinder is a bit of a time capsule.
I know there is a niche within AC's to embrace damage, dents and cracked paint. As this shows that you have a real alloy bodied car from the 50s. Not a replica. But this is what they are up against
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/sponsored...
I know there is a niche within AC's to embrace damage, dents and cracked paint. As this shows that you have a real alloy bodied car from the 50s. Not a replica. But this is what they are up against
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/sponsored...
LexiconUK said:
article said:
this latest model has half the power (230kW, or 308hp) and employs the smaller Cobra body as used the 289-engined cars
They don't look like 289 bodies to me...I built a Pilgrim Sumo, and that whole kit car scene was really interesting in my youth. Was a close call between building a kit and a rolling restoration of the more familiar classics of the time.
I understand those who looked down on them as being rough round the edges, and safety scores being pretty low. The world changes, I know you can still get kits as such but with TUV (at least when we were in Europe), emissions regs, far less availability of RWD donors that their time has more or less gone.
Sorry getting rather off-thread.
And as for the yoof getting less oily with the 'modifying' scene, that seems a way to spend loads of hard-earnt cash on a trolley when you could buy a [probably tweaked] proper car and go up the food chain e.g. why spend 5-10k heavily modifying your Corsa when you could go and but a Scooby.
LexiconUK said:
article said:
this latest model has half the power (230kW, or 308hp) and employs the smaller Cobra body as used the 289-engined cars
They don't look like 289 bodies to me...The article is correct in one way, but not the other.
When Shelby and AC were building the original 260/289 Cobra's, they were badged and sold as Shelby Cobra in the USA and AC Cobra in UK/Europe.
When Shelby created the wider bodied 427 on the new tube chassis, AC in the UK never officially sold the 427 cars, and they were always only badged as Shelby Cobra's.
However, Shelby allowed AC to building their own version of the 427, but not with the big-block, but with the 289 small block, and AC sold and badged the car as the AC 289 Sports. They only made about 30 odd from memory, and years later, many were converted to 427 cars with a side-oiler installed.
In the 80's when Brian Angliss who had bought all the old bucks and tooling from AC, started making brand new cars, he continued doing what AC had done with the AC 289, and called it the Mark IV, and which was a 427 chassis and body with the Ford 5.0HO V8.
As this 'new' AC is the carry on company from those days, its correct they are using the AC 289 bodies, as far as AC are concerned, but to call them the smaller 289 is in fact incorrect.
Nothing is simple and straightforward when it comes to Cobra's.
ZesPak said:
Olivergt said:
What I don't understand is the electrification of cars that will only be driven a few thousand miles a year. It simply doesn't make sense from an environmental point of view.
You think people buy EVs for environmental reasons?How about minimal warm up, instant performance, minimal maintenance. From a lot of perspectives they are ideal as weekenders. Many people love the idea of a car that looks like something from half a century ago, but few want to live with the reality. The fact that it might not start, or the fact that if you don't spanner yourself it'll cost you more than your main car that does 10x the mileage.
If you have to give up engine noise for that, that's a compromise many will be happy to make.
Also, don't forget we're getting older. None of us, as far as I know, grew up with horses in the street. My eldest son is 6 years old and the first car he'll remember is my ev. To him it's the fastest and coolest thing he knows, the others make a vile stench and rattling at the school gates. The generation between him and me (20 somethings) grew up with youtube videos of a Tesla humiliating just about everything from a stand still.
So while it seems like a foreign concept, horses, vinyls, arcade machines and black and white tvs still have a place as a hobby.
But the government drive to ban all sales of ICE cars by a certain date is driven by environmental reasons, which in the case of very low production and weekend use ICE cars simply don't stack up.
Olivergt said:
I agree that people will buy EV's for different reasons.
But the government drive to ban all sales of ICE cars by a certain date is driven by environmental reasons, which in the case of very low production and weekend use ICE cars simply don't stack up.
Agreed, and tbh these low volume cars have been exempt for more than that, like a lot of safety measures. an exception on these would make sense, but for now they are going for widespread adoption and it seems that these low volume hobby cars can be caught in the crossfire. They are still aiming for 2030 and I'm of the belief that these might slip through just as they did with airbags and the like.But the government drive to ban all sales of ICE cars by a certain date is driven by environmental reasons, which in the case of very low production and weekend use ICE cars simply don't stack up.
My point however stands that there's a place for these, maybe not in this body or at that price, but I'm all for an electric Caterham.
Just make sure it has V2G so I can explain my wife and the tax collector that it's just my home battery with wheels.
Edited by ZesPak on Tuesday 8th June 12:08
Equus said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
...even after 2030 you will still be able to make a kit car one providing the V8 and gearbox are pre 2030.
Source?AFAIK, 2030 will be the cut-off date for any new registration of an ICE car, regardless of the date of manufacture of its engine, unless you know different?
Nobody has yet mentioned any exemptions for kit cars, that I'm aware of?
in the same way a grounds up rebuilt 350k Lunaz EV roller still keeps its old plate
Dave Hedgehog said:
unless its changed recently kit cars get the age plate of their major components, which if your providing a chassis is the engine and gearbox
Yes, they get the age plate of their major components, but they still constitute a new registration and the 'date of first registration' is whenever they are registered, not the date of the engine.There has been no suggestion that you will be able to continue to undertake new registrations using old engines, post 2030... if it were that simple, small manufacturers could just start stockpiling engines.
aeropilot said:
LexiconUK said:
article said:
this latest model has half the power (230kW, or 308hp) and employs the smaller Cobra body as used the 289-engined cars
They don't look like 289 bodies to me...The article is correct in one way, but not the other.
When Shelby and AC were building the original 260/289 Cobra's, they were badged and sold as Shelby Cobra in the USA and AC Cobra in UK/Europe.
When Shelby created the wider bodied 427 on the new tube chassis, AC in the UK never officially sold the 427 cars, and they were always only badged as Shelby Cobra's.
However, Shelby allowed AC to building their own version of the 427, but not with the big-block, but with the 289 small block, and AC sold and badged the car as the AC 289 Sports. They only made about 30 odd from memory, and years later, many were converted to 427 cars with a side-oiler installed.
In the 80's when Brian Angliss who had bought all the old bucks and tooling from AC, started making brand new cars, he continued doing what AC had done with the AC 289, and called it the Mark IV, and which was a 427 chassis and body with the Ford 5.0HO V8.
As this 'new' AC is the carry on company from those days, its correct they are using the AC 289 bodies, as far as AC are concerned, but to call them the smaller 289 is in fact incorrect.
Nothing is simple and straightforward when it comes to Cobra's.
Little nuggets of truly interesting info from someone who knows their stuff are why I still dip in and out of PH, even if you do have to sift through pages of argumentative drivel to find it. aeropilot said:
LexiconUK said:
article said:
this latest model has half the power (230kW, or 308hp) and employs the smaller Cobra body as used the 289-engined cars
They don't look like 289 bodies to me...The article is correct in one way, but not the other.
When Shelby and AC were building the original 260/289 Cobra's, they were badged and sold as Shelby Cobra in the USA and AC Cobra in UK/Europe.
When Shelby created the wider bodied 427 on the new tube chassis, AC in the UK never officially sold the 427 cars, and they were always only badged as Shelby Cobra's.
However, Shelby allowed AC to building their own version of the 427, but not with the big-block, but with the 289 small block, and AC sold and badged the car as the AC 289 Sports. They only made about 30 odd from memory, and years later, many were converted to 427 cars with a side-oiler installed.
In the 80's when Brian Angliss who had bought all the old bucks and tooling from AC, started making brand new cars, he continued doing what AC had done with the AC 289, and called it the Mark IV, and which was a 427 chassis and body with the Ford 5.0HO V8.
As this 'new' AC is the carry on company from those days, its correct they are using the AC 289 bodies, as far as AC are concerned, but to call them the smaller 289 is in fact incorrect.
Nothing is simple and straightforward when it comes to Cobra's.
Wait till you google the guy behind this EV cobra... Alan Lubinsky... Makes the chicken farmers antics look tame.
Cob1 said:
Wait till you google the guy behind this EV cobra... Alan Lubinsky... Makes the chicken farmers antics look tame.
I'd rather not Google him tbh.....the thought of an EV Cobra makes my flesh crawl. The Cobra should just be left to die with a bit of dignity at the end of the ICE era IMHO.
And I was 'privileged' enough to have briefly met the 'chicken farmer' 30 years ago at SAAC 16....
aeropilot said:
Cob1 said:
Wait till you google the guy behind this EV cobra... Alan Lubinsky... Makes the chicken farmers antics look tame.
I'd rather not Google him tbh.....the thought of an EV Cobra makes my flesh crawl. The Cobra should just be left to die with a bit of dignity at the end of the ICE era IMHO.
And I was 'privileged' enough to have briefly met the 'chicken farmer' 30 years ago at SAAC 16....
This ain't no Ford vs Ferrari Netflix special is it
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