RE: Lotus previews new Emira interior
Discussion
Northernboy said:
They aren't particularly fast, though. Once you're dropping through 4 seconds 0-60, or about 8 0-100 that's when (in my opinion) it starts to be much better to have an automatic.
To be honest, you're probably right about that one - besides - you probably need an auto if you want to shave every second you can off the 0-60. For me though, a Lotus is a car I admire for it's focus on handling and feel, and that's where an auto (and even a turbo with lag) would leave me cold, especially with the old elise/exige box being a real spectacle to behold.
It's like looking at the R8's beautiful gated shifter and then saying "no, I'll take the clunky R-tronic please"
Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
I am ok with displays as instrument clusters but what is the problem with showing a simple, round rev counter on it? The general look aside, i always feel like these moving bars as a rev counter are a lot harder to read and more irritating. It feels way more natural for the eye to look at a simple round thing to guess where the needle is.
BMW is as guilty with the new digital dash a massive step back to the old one in my opinion:
BMW is as guilty with the new digital dash a massive step back to the old one in my opinion:
Edited by ae2006 on Monday 7th June 15:54
flukey5 said:
Northernboy said:
They aren't particularly fast, though. Once you're dropping through 4 seconds 0-60, or about 8 0-100 that's when (in my opinion) it starts to be much better to have an automatic.
To be honest, you're probably right about that one - besides - you probably need an auto if you want to shave every second you can off the 0-60. For me though, a Lotus is a car I admire for it's focus on handling and feel, and that's where an auto (and even a turbo with lag) would leave me cold, especially with the old elise/exige box being a real spectacle to behold.
It's like looking at the R8's beautiful gated shifter and then saying "no, I'll take the clunky R-tronic please"
Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
It can actually handle more torque (450nm) than the standard Aisin EA60 manual gearbox (400nm), but is pretty slow-witted even as torque converter autos go.
My hope is that Lotus haven't just turned the wick up on the 3.5L motor and made the transmission auto-only to cope with the torque demands. There are other transmissions (eg. an 8-speed auto) which might also be in the frame.
By the time this comes out I'll be in the market for a new car of this type. So it'll be this or a boxster but as there arent any Lotus dealers in Austria and it doesnt look like I can have a manual in the lower spec car I'll be going german. As a previous owner of a VX220 its annoying to have to write the lotus off before its even been revealed.
CraigyMc said:
The existing 3.5 V6 in the Exige/Evora is paired up with a slushbox auto (Lotus call this the "IPS" -- it's really an Aisin AI AWF6F45 -- I know some people like it but I think "IBS" would be a more appropriate acronym for a Lotus sportscar).
It can actually handle more torque (450nm) than the standard Aisin EA60 manual gearbox (400nm), but is pretty slow-witted even as torque converter autos go.
My hope is that Lotus haven't just turned the wick up on the 3.5L motor and made the transmission auto-only to cope with the torque demands. There are other transmissions (eg. an 8-speed auto) which might also be in the frame.
It won't help that it's a transverse end on gearbox, these are never as good as a gearbox designed to be attached to an engine facing the Proper Way because they have to be so compact I suppose.It can actually handle more torque (450nm) than the standard Aisin EA60 manual gearbox (400nm), but is pretty slow-witted even as torque converter autos go.
My hope is that Lotus haven't just turned the wick up on the 3.5L motor and made the transmission auto-only to cope with the torque demands. There are other transmissions (eg. an 8-speed auto) which might also be in the frame.
Agree about the manual vs auto in this context. If the thing is a power monster, and straight line heroics and ultimate Top Trumps figures are a big part of the appeal, or a track car where you're chasing the clock then a lightning fast auto is understandable, but for anything that's supposed to be a fun road car I'd really want a manual. I didn't buy an Alfa 4C, in no small part because the cuckbox was so inappropriate.
Northernboy said:
I think if you try something fast you’ll see why automatics are popular, you just can’t keep up with the gear changes needed on a high-end car nowadays.
I’m looking forward to a manual in my GR Yaris, but in the faster cars they’d just not work as well.
A manual would work perfectly well in a very fast car to this day. Obviously it wouldn't have 8 or 9 ratios but 6. The McLaren F1 managed 0-100mph in 6 seconds with a manual. We had Group C and F1 cars in the 1980s with twice the power to weight of today's supercars, and they were driveable back then with a manual gearbox and ancient tech. Let's be realistic and admit that (in addition to emissions/efficiency) all supercars are manual due to your average rotund middle-aged buyer wanting an 'easy' drive.I’m looking forward to a manual in my GR Yaris, but in the faster cars they’d just not work as well.
Olivera said:
A manual would work perfectly well in a very fast car to this day. Obviously it wouldn't have 8 or 9 ratios but 6. The McLaren F1 managed 0-100mph in 6 seconds with a manual. We had Group C and F1 cars in the 1980s with twice the power to weight of today's supercars, and they were driveable back then with a manual gearbox and ancient tech. Let's be realistic and admit that (in addition to emissions/efficiency) all supercars are manual due to your average rotund middle-aged buyer wanting an 'easy' drive.
But I don’t want an “easy” drive, I want as much fun as I can have. You’ve no idea what gearboxes the cars you mention would have used with today’s technology either. I don’t think that many competition cars have standard manual boxes nowadays.Motorbikes tend to be all about fun, and they’ve sequential semi-auto boxes on them, and have had for years.
Northernboy said:
flukey5 said:
My logic - in a fun & light sports car at least, if you'd let something else smash the gears for you then you probably let someone else smash your wife for you too 
I think if you try something fast you’ll see why automatics are popular, you just can’t keep up with the gear changes needed on a high-end car nowadays. I’m looking forward to a manual in my GR Yaris, but in the faster cars they’d just not work as well.Edited by flukey5 on Monday 7th June 14:39
Prefer the manual stick beside the wheel rally style, so might make the CAE Ultra Shifter mod soon to the GR Yaris. Wife already knows my wish to be buried in our Elise S1 :-)
ae2006 said:
I am ok with displays as instrument clusters but what is the problem with showing a simple, round rev counter on it? The general look aside, i always feel like these moving bars as a rev counter are a lot harder to read and more irritating. It feels way more natural for the eye to look at a simple round thing to guess where the needle is.
BMW is as guilty with the new digital dash a massive step back to the old one in my opinion:
They want to "demonstrate progress". Whatever that means. Certainly cars produced in the name of progress, have not always been better than what went before. BMW is as guilty with the new digital dash a massive step back to the old one in my opinion:
Edited by ae2006 on Monday 7th June 15:54
SWoll said:
flukey5 said:
stickleback123 said:
flukey5 said:
Me - because the second they announce that this thing is cuckbox automatic only, I'm buying an Elise instead.
cuckbox 
Edited by flukey5 on Monday 7th June 14:39
Northernboy said:
But I don’t want an “easy” drive, I want as much fun as I can have. You’ve no idea what gearboxes the cars you mention would have used with today’s technology either. I don’t think that many competition cars have standard manual boxes nowadays.
Motorbikes tend to be all about fun, and they’ve sequential semi-auto boxes on them, and have had for years.
My point was a counter argument to 'today's supercars are so fast they cannot have a manual gearbox', which just isn't true (see Gordon Murray T50). Emissions, efficiency and the requirements of the typical buyer dictate auto.Motorbikes tend to be all about fun, and they’ve sequential semi-auto boxes on them, and have had for years.
flukey5 said:
It's like looking at the R8's beautiful gated shifter and then saying "no, I'll take the clunky R-tronic please"
Probably why Audi ditched the R-tronic for the S-tronic. It was not a good alternative. The faster the R8 got, the R-tronic was better at doing the job.I'm lucky in that we have a family SUV to do the boring work, but if you are buying one car to do as much as possible whilst being able to be fun on those rare occasions you get these days, you have to make a little bit of a compromise.
My 981GTS was a manual and I maintain it was fantastic for 10% of my use, great for 70% and a ballache for the last 20% (traffic etc). The gearing didn't help. My 718S is a PDK which is great for 90% of my use and maybe not quite as awesome for the other 10%.
If I were to buy a Lotus (or indeed any new car) to use for fun and commuting (which is entirely reasonable), I would choose the PDK/DSG/ABC every single time. It's going to be great on the commute and certainly fun enough for me when I go out for a play. And I suspect I am similar to a big customer base that Lotus want a slice of.
The numbers of manual vs PDK Caymans (981 and 718) attest to that.
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