RE: Lotus previews new Emira interior

RE: Lotus previews new Emira interior

Author
Discussion

kambites

61,830 posts

189 months

Tuesday 8th June
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florian said:
Can you provide a source?
Because Geely is extremely cost aware.
The only definite thing I've seen is a quote from Matt Windle saying it will be a "high-output, lower capacity engine where we're partnering with a very famous engine manufacturer". I guess calling Geely a "very famous engine manufacturer" would be pushing it a bit.

florian

189 posts

242 months

Tuesday 8th June
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kambites said:
The only definite thing I've seen is a quote from Matt Windle saying it will be a "high-output, lower capacity engine where we're partnering with a very famous engine manufacturer". I guess calling Geely a "very famous engine manufacturer" would be pushing it a bit.
Yes, I wouldn't call Geely a famous engine manufacturer indeed. But the 1.5 and 1.8 litre turbo engines were co-developed together with Volvo. And keep in mind that Geely produces about 1 m. of these engines this year which are assembled into Geely, Link & Co. and Volvo cars. So they are a major engine manufacturer already. And with regard to cost management I can assure from personal experience that they are world class - some might even call them ruthless.

kambites

61,830 posts

189 months

Tuesday 8th June
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Oh I'm pretty sure it's also been confirmed that it's a 2.0.

DonkeyApple

41,635 posts

137 months

Tuesday 8th June
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PhantomPH said:
I think you have answered your own question there, bud - 'they hardly have any customers'. Perhaps if they were a little more focused on what the market wants, they might have had a few more...ergo, would not need to rely on a few enthusiasts to keep afloat.
That's the nub. The one single fact that Lotus knows from its own data is that almost no one on the planet wants a manual Lotus. The external data also tells them that what customers do want is an auto.

Not only do they want autos but they want objects that look more expensive than they are. Oh, and proper house finance.

Lotus need to start selling cars after a twenty year hiatus on that front. They need something that looks more expensive than it is, has an auto box and can be acquired via Geely's finance.

I'd love to see Lotus back on the road and being bought in sufficient numbers to be financially viable and the great advantage of the 17 cars built over the last 20 years is that they all still exist so any of the 17 people who want a manual Lotus at any given time can still have one. Win win for all involved.

flukey5

268 posts

28 months

Tuesday 8th June
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DonkeyApple said:
That's the nub. The one single fact that Lotus knows from its own data is that almost no one on the planet wants a manual Lotus. The external data also tells them that what customers do want is an auto.
Are you insane? Nearly every current Lotus is sold overwhelmingly with a manual gearbox. They even stopped offering automatic exiges because nobody bought them. Take a look at the classifieds for Evoras. The cheap ones are autos - very few people want the cuckbox.

Nearly every Lotus enthusiast would buy a manual, whether they want to appeal to the customers that have kept them afloat for 20 years or fling themselves at the crowd who care more about what other people think of their cars, we'll see. Those people would probably buy a porsche for the brand anyway.


Northernboy

11,161 posts

225 months

Tuesday 8th June
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flukey5 said:
Are you insane? Nearly every current Lotus is sold overwhelmingly with a manual gearbox. They even stopped offering automatic exiges because nobody bought them. Take a look at the classifieds for Evoras. The cheap ones are autos - very few people want the cuckbox.
It’s not really clear why you are trying to provoke with that asinine phrase, but given the stereotypical owners of your cars, isn’t it a bit strange?

kbee540

165 posts

176 months

Tuesday 8th June
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stickleback123 said:
Does anyone outside the room full of marketing tossers at the car companies and the room full of motoring "journalist" tossers desperate for any content actually give a crap about these tedious "reveals"?

Give us a shout when you have a car to show us and let us drive, until then do something useful with your time.
^^^^This x1000^^^^ These "reveals" are weapons-grade wkery. Got a car? Let's see it. Otherwise please Foxtrot Oscar.

flukey5

268 posts

28 months

Tuesday 8th June
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Northernboy said:
flukey5 said:
Are you insane? Nearly every current Lotus is sold overwhelmingly with a manual gearbox. They even stopped offering automatic exiges because nobody bought them. Take a look at the classifieds for Evoras. The cheap ones are autos - very few people want the cuckbox.
It’s not really clear why you are trying to provoke with that asinine phrase, but given the stereotypical owners of your cars, isn’t it a bit strange?
I'm not provoking, if you prefer to watch rather than have the fun yourself then that's up to you - not a choice I would make bar loss of limb wink

My hair isn't as well-styled as my cars may suggest, if that's what you're insinuating haha

Northernboy

11,161 posts

225 months

Tuesday 8th June
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flukey5 said:
I'm not provoking, if you prefer to watch rather than have the fun yourself then that's up to you - not a choice I would make bar loss of limb wink

My hair isn't as well-styled as my cars may suggest, if that's what you're insinuating haha
Of course you are provoking. You’re coming across as very immature, of needing to justify your own preferences by insulting others’

Miserablegit

2,443 posts

77 months

Tuesday 8th June
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Northernboy said:
It’s not really clear why you are trying to provoke with that asinine phrase, but given the stereotypical owners of your cars, isn’t it a bit strange?
You know nothing Northernboy. Flukey drives an audi TT (fwd perchance? Can't see a driving-god going 4wd)- the epitome of raw sportscar and the basis for the re-writing of the rulebook on handling.
laugh

I don't care what box it has - manual might be nice if a good box/linkage and good ratios - more interested in how it looks and how it goes.

Lotus need to sell more cars to survive - I'll feel sorry for the buyers who have bought manual in the past if it isn't an option but they need to sell in larger numbers according to the new owner so that's the deal.

Of all the naysayers, how many would actually buy a new manual lotus - probably a fraction of them. If you're not a potential new buyer then it's all just hot air.






flukey5

268 posts

28 months

Tuesday 8th June
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Miserablegit said:
You know nothing Northernboy. Flukey drives an audi TT (fwd perchance? Can't see a driving-god going 4wd)- the epitome of raw sportscar and the basis for the re-writing of the rulebook on handling.
laugh
You don't know the meaning of understeer. I was born in it, moulded by it.

Northernboy

11,161 posts

225 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
Miserablegit said:
You know nothing Northernboy. Flukey drives an audi TT (fwd perchance? Can't see a driving-god going 4wd)- the epitome of raw sportscar and the basis for the re-writing of the rulebook on handling.
laugh

I don't care what box it has - manual might be nice if a good box/linkage and good ratios - more interested in how it looks and how it goes.

Lotus need to sell more cars to survive - I'll feel sorry for the buyers who have bought manual in the past if it isn't an option but they need to sell in larger numbers according to the new owner so that's the deal.

Of all the naysayers, how many would actually buy a new manual lotus - probably a fraction of them. If you're not a potential new buyer then it's all just hot air.
I think that I'm going to be interested in buying one, but of course it's going to be dependent on cost and spec. If it's reasonably high performance, I'll buy it in auto. Probably.

There are some things that the Elise does much better than my McLaren, and this new car will have to offer the same. If what it has is just a bit less in every category, for less money, then it's not for me,

If it has handling close to the Elise, but also a good chunk more performance, then I'll want one instead of or as well as what I currently have.

Miserablegit

2,443 posts

77 months

Tuesday 8th June
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Let's hope it looks good and goes well.






PhantomPH

3,920 posts

193 months

Tuesday 8th June
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flukey5 said:
DonkeyApple said:
That's the nub. The one single fact that Lotus knows from its own data is that almost no one on the planet wants a manual Lotus. The external data also tells them that what customers do want is an auto.
Are you insane? Nearly every current Lotus is sold overwhelmingly with a manual gearbox. They even stopped offering automatic exiges because nobody bought them. Take a look at the classifieds for Evoras. The cheap ones are autos - very few people want the cuckbox.

Nearly every Lotus enthusiast would buy a manual, whether they want to appeal to the customers that have kept them afloat for 20 years or fling themselves at the crowd who care more about what other people think of their cars, we'll see. Those people would probably buy a porsche for the brand anyway.
You are missing the point massively. What has gone before is clearly not working. Lotus are not selling in sufficient volumes and since this is not a charity aimed at pleasing the last small percentage of 'enthusiasts', they are going to try something crazy - like offering a product that more people will want to buy.

I've already said this on the thread, but I am a Porsche buyer and have been planning on making a change to a 4.0GTS (not even worth trying to get on the list for a Spyder as I don't like the taste of dealer bum hole) - but from the ridiculously annoying teasers, this Lotus has made me pause. If it looks as good as it's starting to hint at and it's put together in such a way that doesn't mean I am waiting for trim to fall off in my hand, I will serious consider buying my first ever Lotus - with the DSG option ticked.

I use my cars for a number of things including commuting and the auto is perfect for a really large percentage of journeys. But ignoring all that, I have 46-year-old knees that have taken endless abuse from sport and after driving a manual hire van last week for a day, I was very much reminded why I no longer buy manual cars.

Crazy I know - but Lotus might actually GAIN customers. Imagine that...a business actually making a popular/profitable product! Wonders will never cease...

DonkeyApple

41,635 posts

137 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
flukey5 said:
DonkeyApple said:
That's the nub. The one single fact that Lotus knows from its own data is that almost no one on the planet wants a manual Lotus. The external data also tells them that what customers do want is an auto.
Are you insane? Nearly every current Lotus is sold overwhelmingly with a manual gearbox. They even stopped offering automatic exiges because nobody bought them. Take a look at the classifieds for Evoras. The cheap ones are autos - very few people want the cuckbox.

Nearly every Lotus enthusiast would buy a manual, whether they want to appeal to the customers that have kept them afloat for 20 years or fling themselves at the crowd who care more about what other people think of their cars, we'll see. Those people would probably buy a porsche for the brand anyway.
Not insane. No one wants manual. The very few global consumers that do are so small in number that the car business isn't profitable.

It's very clear that Lotus are moving clearly and robustly away from this tiny niche that wants cars cheaper than they can be made and with unfashionable mechanics. The new line up and brand positioning is 100% about selling to a demographic that exists in sufficient numbers to be profitable. These consumers very clearly want paddle shifting not manual labour.

The best the old niche can hope for is some specials but the pricing will be beyond their reach so even that is possibly wishful thinking.

Vee12V

1,068 posts

128 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
flukey5 said:
The cheap ones are autos - very few people want the cuckbox.
While that's true they also never offered a car with a decent auto box, so that also counts for the lack of popularity.

Edited by Vee12V on Tuesday 8th June 12:11

DonkeyApple

41,635 posts

137 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
Miserablegit said:
Let's hope it looks good and goes well.
That's all that matters. We can probably safely assume that it will go well but it's the 'looking good' that has been their Achilles Heel for years now. They've never succeeded in making a product that looks notably more expensive that it really is and that is the absolute crux for selling in volume. The cold reality is that consumers don't ultimately care about 'handling' per se but primarily that the object looks and is believed by strangers to be, more expensive than it actually is. Lotus have never bothered to do this in the 21st century and so they've barely sold any cars.

It's very clear that Lotus have finally had this explained to them and that they are trying to reverse this failing. They've got the multi million poster super car to start rebasing consumer expectations of value and brand position. They've got the new cars coming that will end the cheap Elise, they are using paddle shift which higher end spenders expect and they are doing the wky, de facto, step by step trendy reveal that may wind us up but research shows makes the majority of people priapismic and desperate to take out a loan. Everything looks pretty good. It all rests on the wrapper. The new cars simply have to look good and have the perception of being more expensive than they are.

otolith

45,108 posts

172 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
Weird focus in the article on "effectively replacing the Elise" - the Elise, Exige and Evora are going out of production, and a new car pitched between the Cayman and the 911 is coming out. It's not going to have an open top.

Of the three cars, I would say that the Evora is completely covered, the Exige much less so, and the Elise not replaced at all.

It's going to be a nice daily driver, like a Porsche.

DonkeyApple

41,635 posts

137 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
Vee12V said:
flukey5 said:
The cheap ones are autos - very few people want the cuckbox.
While that's true they also never offered a car with a decent auto box, so that also counts for the lack of popularity.

Edited by Vee12V on Tuesday 8th June 12:11
They've also never tried selling products to the larger number of car buyers who prefer auto but just been sticking to the tiny number of blokes on the planet who want a manual gearbox attached to a cheap engine, wrapped in a cheap looking shell. At a cheap price.

I'm being very harsh but for Lotus to survive they need to deliver products that more people want and it is extremely clear to see that almost no one wants a manual gearbox so there is absolutely no point in offering it. Especially as they know that their new price points will be leaving their old customers behind. These are fundamentally new products for new customers whether we like it or not.

flukey5

268 posts

28 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
PhantomPH said:
I've already said this on the thread, but I am a Porsche buyer and have been planning on making a change to a 4.0GTS (not even worth trying to get on the list for a Spyder as I don't like the taste of dealer bum hole) - but from the ridiculously annoying teasers, this Lotus has made me pause. If it looks as good as it's starting to hint at and it's put together in such a way that doesn't mean I am waiting for trim to fall off in my hand, I will serious consider buying my first ever Lotus - with the DSG option ticked.

Crazy I know - but Lotus might actually GAIN customers. Imagine that...a business actually making a popular/profitable product! Wonders will never cease...
Thing is, porsche buyers have been saying this for years too. They look at an Evora, sit in one, they even like it when they drive it. But then they go and buy a Porsche anyway because (I guess) they don't want to deal with the negatives of a small volume producer and Lotus' frankly awful in-house finance.

I know I would be an Elise owner already if it weren't for Lotus' terrible finance.