RE: Tesla confirms Model S Plaid performance

RE: Tesla confirms Model S Plaid performance

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Discussion

Snozzer

76 posts

108 months

Friday 11th June
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benzinbob said:
Hang on I thought he said they wouldn’t be making these?..
That was Plaid+, not the regular Plaid

David87

5,890 posts

179 months

Friday 11th June
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Just incredible. How much was that M5 CS again?

Pixelpeep Z4

6,878 posts

109 months

Friday 11th June
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GreatScott2016 said:
I probably shouldn’t be commenting because I simply don’t know enough about these EVs. However, the prospect of something as quick as this in the hands of an idiot with little car control is a recipe for disaster. Throw in silent, or near silent running gear and eek TBH, it could have warp speed but until they get it to drive like e.g. the M3, then it’s not for me and certainly not at that price point!
Bugatti Chiron – 1,479bhp, 261mph (claimed) ...
Koenigsegg Agera RS – 1,340bhp, 277mph. ...
Mercedes-AMG Project One – 1,000bhp+, 217mph. ...
Ferrari 812 Superfast – 789bhp, 211mph. ...
Lamborghini Aventador S – 730bhp, 217mph. ...
Hennessey Exorcist – 1,000bhp,.. etc
etc

Available for many years prior to now. Are they also not 'recipes for disaster.' ?

Any quick car in the hands of an idiot is dangerous. this is not limited to EVs!

Anyone can buy a 500bhp Monaro for £10k right now - (https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/11704353) does that scare you also?






thegreenhell

8,987 posts

186 months

Friday 11th June
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Pixelpeep Z4 said:
Any quick car in the hands of an idiot is dangerous. this is not limited to EVs!

Jon_S_Rally

1,058 posts

55 months

Friday 11th June
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Elon Musk said:
Most amount of fun on 4 wheels! Pure joy on tap whenever u want.
I think you need to drive a few more cars, Elon. Or at least try to understand that straight-line performance isn't everything to every body.

That being said, I do think the Model S remains the best looking Tesla. The X is horrendous, and the roof line of the 3 looks a bit high to me. The S still has the nicest proportions.

I'm just not interested in silly acceleration figures. For me, it's about engagement and interaction, which seems to rule out all of the current EVs (and most new ICE cars sadly).

Augustus Windsock said:
But I’ll still celebrate the fact that such a thing is going to be built, that is until Greta and her tree-huggers decide to turn their attention to EVs and say they are the worst things to happen since...ICE cars.
I think this is one of the things that a lot of people are forgetting. Sadly, a lot of environmentalist types are also rather left-leaning, so are often fundamentally against the car, and think we should all be on buses. They will soon start attacking EVs too.

aparna said:
The battery alone costs something like 20k so you have to compromise somewhere .

I'm a kid who can't drive, but similarly find it hard to understand how anyone can throw a Tesla down an empty, twisty b road, and still after that, dismiss the experience as top trumps.
Different people want different things. Straight-line acceleration is only one element of a car and, for many driving enthusiasts, not actually high up the list of priorities.

Pixelpeep Z4

6,878 posts

109 months

Friday 11th June
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thegreenhell said:
Pixelpeep Z4 said:
Any quick car in the hands of an idiot is dangerous. this is not limited to EVs!
Thank you..i did consider editing it to say the same!


stickleback123

8,036 posts

156 months

Friday 11th June
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aparna said:
The battery alone costs something like 20k so you have to compromise somewhere .

I'm a kid who can't drive, but similarly find it hard to understand how anyone can throw a Tesla down an empty, twisty b road, and still after that, dismiss the experience as top trumps.
I don't meant to be condescending but you find that hard to understand because you've never driven down an empty, twisty B road and there is so much more to what makes a car great in those scenarios than can ever be captured on paper. The way any Tesla accelerates out of corners is utterly hilarious, make no mistake, but it's very mediocre at everything else.

The ride, steering, brakes, handling etc are all reasonably good in isolation but the two I had for a while and they just don't gel in the same way that a big saloon from one of the more experienced manufacturers do. In particular I found the control calibration made it very hard to drive smoothly when driving fast.

I suppose my point is that what the Model S needs is not more potent acceleration, but that's much easier for them to achieve than closing the gap on handling and quality.

What I would say is that compared to other new entrants into the car market over the last 50 years (DMC, Yugo, Hyundai, Kia, various Chinese brands) it's a very impressive first effort even if it's far from perfect. What it isn't is the holy grail of all cars of any type, as the top trumps guys seem to think. Outside of the inherent benefits of being an EV, and the monumental acceleration, it's a much worse luxury saloon than an S-Class, 7 series, A8, LS etc.



Edited by stickleback123 on Friday 11th June 13:29

EthanSmale

17,402 posts

146 months

Friday 11th June
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stickleback123 said:
aparna said:
The battery alone costs something like 20k so you have to compromise somewhere .

I'm a kid who can't drive, but similarly find it hard to understand how anyone can throw a Tesla down an empty, twisty b road, and still after that, dismiss the experience as top trumps.
I don't meant to be condescending but you find that hard to understand because you've never driven down an empty, twisty B road and there is so much more to what makes a car great in those scenarios than can ever be captured on paper. The way any Tesla accelerates out of corners is utterly hilarious, make no mistake, but it's very mediocre at everything else.

The ride, steering, brakes, handling etc are all reasonably good in isolation but the two I had for a while and they just don't gel in the same way that a big saloon from one of the more experienced manufacturers do. In particular I found the control calibration made it very hard to drive smoothly when driving fast.

I suppose my point is that what the Model S needs is not more potent acceleration, but that's much easier for them to achieve than closing the gap on handling and quality.

What I would say is that compared to other new entrants into the car market over the last 50 years (DMC, Yugo, Hyundai, Kia, various Chinese brands) it's a very impressive first effort even if it's far from perfect. What it isn't is the holy grail of all cars of any type, as the top trumps guys seem to think. Outside of the inherent benefits of being an EV, and the monumental acceleration, it's a much worse luxury saloon than an S-Class, 7 series, A8, LS etc.



Edited by stickleback123 on Friday 11th June 13:29
Absolutely. It's something that doesn't make sense until you've driven a wide range of cars and then it's just obvious.

For me it's largely about body movements. I haven't driven the Plaid but in my experience with other Teslas, they don't get it right quite like a Jaguar or Porsche.

Very good cars and very impressive but not a driver's car in the traditional sense

aparna

531 posts

4 months

Friday 11th June
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stickleback123 said:
I don't meant to be condescending but you find that hard to understand because you've never driven down an empty, twisty B road and there is so much more to what makes a car great in those scenarios than can ever be captured on paper. The way any Tesla accelerates out of corners is utterly hilarious, make no mistake, but it's very mediocre at everything else.

The ride, steering, brakes, handling etc are all reasonably good in isolation but the two I had for a while and they just don't gel in the same way that a big saloon from one of the more experienced manufacturers do. In particular I found the control calibration made it very hard to drive smoothly when driving fast.

I suppose my point is that what the Model S needs is not more potent acceleration, but that's much easier for them to achieve than closing the gap on handling and quality.

What I would say is that compared to other new entrants into the car market over the last 50 years (DMC, Yugo, Hyundai, Kia, various Chinese brands) it's a very impressive first effort even if it's far from perfect. What it isn't is the holy grail of all cars of any type, as the top trumps guys seem to think. Outside of the inherent benefits of being an EV, and the monumental acceleration, it's a much worse luxury saloon than an S-Class, 7 series, A8, LS etc.



Edited by stickleback123 on Friday 11th June 13:29
I guess I fit the bill for the top trumps kid. I jumped from 8s to 3.1s. . And accelerating out of corners is very much 95% of the fun for me.

No idea if the brakes are mediocre. I mostly use regen, and don't tend to really push the car in situations where brakes would be necessary. Where I live there are plentiful long sweeping bends up steep hills, with good visibility.

Handling is not a huge priority. I read things like it beats porsche at moose test. But I've never used track mode and doubt I will. You don't miss what you've never had?

Do I sometimes wish it had an extra half a second? Sure why not. Because it's easier to close the fun gap via this metric than via disabling traction control.

The trim, it's a car not a kitchen.

I totally understand why driving enthusiasts don't respect these priorities. But I guess what I'm saying, is maybe Musk knows his audience. Morons? biggrin


swiveleyedgit

2,268 posts

236 months

Friday 11th June
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stickleback123 said:
it's a much worse luxury saloon than an S-Class,
Edited by stickleback123 on Friday 11th June 13:29
What?! even worse than a W220...?

Phil-6puy8

17 posts

69 months

Friday 11th June
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At the age of 36 it’s finally happened to me. Am I old?
I’ve been a piston head from day dot..

But…

New cars just don’t do it for me anymore!

I think the Chris Harris Alfaholics sealed it for me..

Maybe a beaten up BM e34/e39 restomod for saloon needs.

I would much rather drive a noisy thirsty modern classic than this dull piece of speed.

I don’t want I hate more this or that ABT RS6 from yesterday.. I loved the RS6.. it’s another car that’s lost it’s way..

I blame PCP Deals and chav’s over spending on SVR’s etc… @archiehamiltonracing

HardMiles

215 posts

53 months

Friday 11th June
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as nice as that is, I'd still rather try and catch a blowie from a honey badger...

stickleback123

8,036 posts

156 months

Friday 11th June
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swiveleyedgit said:
What?! even worse than a W220...?
hehe OK fair point, it's about as good as a W220. For all it's "the st Merc" the panel gaps on a new W220 would put a Model S to shame wink

I think the post about body movements is onto something; 12 months ago I was driving from Warwick back to Cardiff entirely using B roads and lanes and at one stage I was behind an Audi A5, and as he upped the pace the car was all over the place with very poorly controlled body movements and it looked like no fun at all, having driven cars like. 10 minutes later I followed a very briskly driven 2nd gen Jaguar XF and the difference was stark; the movements were controlled, fluid, and the car looked very settled and comfortable.

I'm sure driver ability was a part of it, but the hopeless body control of the A5 at more than about 6/10ths was quite something to behold.

chrisironside

337 posts

129 months

Friday 11th June
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British Beef said:
Call me a luddite, I think I would have more fun hustling an old v6 Alfa along an average road or relaxing in the opulence of a german or british uber saloon if comfort was on agenda.

For embarrassing a Veyron on the drag strip, this would be a neat solution !!
I don't think this makes you a luddite, it all seems quite reasonable, but I feel like a lot of car enthusiasts don't give EVs a fair chance.

We tend to idolise fast cars, and with EVs showing such incredible performance why wouldn't we celebrate them more. Noise from combustion engines is the result of inefficiency (lost energy), and in a lot of cars isn't a welcome addition. If I was looking for comfort on a long journey I don't think I'd for a second consider a petrol/diesel saloon over the likes of a Model S, Taycan or E-Tron GT, and when we start seeing electric versions of Caterham/Ariel type cars I think they'll show how appealing instant and full power delivery is.

I don't think a Veyron owner should be too embarrassed if their 10-15 year old car is beaten on a drag strip by the fastest there is on offer today though smile

otolith

45,054 posts

171 months

Friday 11th June
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Jon_S_Rally said:
Different people want different things. Straight-line acceleration is only one element of a car and, for many driving enthusiasts, not actually high up the list of priorities.
Why do you feel the need to point this out about the Tesla and Rimac, but not the M5 or Corvette?

knebworth01

126 posts

87 months

Friday 11th June
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aparna said:
I guess I fit the bill for the top trumps kid. I jumped from 8s to 3.1s. . And accelerating out of corners is very much 95% of the fun for me.

No idea if the brakes are mediocre. I mostly use regen, and don't tend to really push the car in situations where brakes would be necessary. Where I live there are plentiful long sweeping bends up steep hills, with good visibility.

Handling is not a huge priority. I read things like it beats porsche at moose test. But I've never used track mode and doubt I will. You don't miss what you've never had?

Do I sometimes wish it had an extra half a second? Sure why not. Because it's easier to close the fun gap via this metric than via disabling traction control.

The trim, it's a car not a kitchen.

I totally understand why driving enthusiasts don't respect these priorities. But I guess what I'm saying, is maybe Musk knows his audience. Morons? biggrin
Well said!
It makes my skin crawl reading more and more about people wanting interaction and feel from cars, even the journos go on about it.
They're just like politicians using buzz words (texture, balance, feedback blah blah).
You can have fun ragging a fiat panda on holiday and not worry about any of these things, so I think people need to stop being so nerdy and just realise that really, deep down, we all know that this interaction and feel nonsense is just boll#**!
Buy a car because it interests you and don't worry what anyone else thinks.

Vee12V

1,064 posts

127 months

Friday 11th June
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Of all the crazy numbers I find the top speed the most impressive. Now imagine that powertrain in a smaller/lighter car.

Jon_S_Rally

1,058 posts

55 months

Friday 11th June
quotequote all
otolith said:
Why do you feel the need to point this out about the Tesla and Rimac, but not the M5 or Corvette?
I've said it about plenty of ICE cars. I got rid of my Golf R and replaced it with a Megane 265 for the same reason. It's not an issue exclusive to EVs, but it is a bigger issue with them in some respects, because they have lost an important dimension (in my view) by losing the IC engine.

knebworth01 said:
Well said!
It makes my skin crawl reading more and more about people wanting interaction and feel from cars, even the journos go on about it.
They're just like politicians using buzz words (texture, balance, feedback blah blah).
You can have fun ragging a fiat panda on holiday and not worry about any of these things, so I think people need to stop being so nerdy and just realise that really, deep down, we all know that this interaction and feel nonsense is just boll#**!
Buy a car because it interests you and don't worry what anyone else thinks.
What a bizarre post. You appear to contradict yourself. You call the desire for interaction and feel "bks", but then say you should buy a car because it interests you and not worry what others think. Isn't that the point? For many buyers, what interests them is interaction, so of course they are going to be concerned when fewer and fewer cars possess the characteristic that is important to them. If people get excited by a Tesla doing 0-60 in less than two seconds then good luck to them, but it's not what I want from a car.

Kavsie

7 posts

22 months

Friday 11th June
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Pixelpeep Z4 said:
Bugatti Chiron – 1,479bhp, 261mph (claimed) ...
Koenigsegg Agera RS – 1,340bhp, 277mph. ...
Mercedes-AMG Project One – 1,000bhp+, 217mph. ...
Ferrari 812 Superfast – 789bhp, 211mph. ...
Lamborghini Aventador S – 730bhp, 217mph. ...
Hennessey Exorcist – 1,000bhp,.. etc
etc

Available for many years prior to now. Are they also not 'recipes for disaster.' ?

Any quick car in the hands of an idiot is dangerous. this is not limited to EVs!

Anyone can buy a 500bhp Monaro for £10k right now - (https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/11704353) does that scare you also?
Bit of a pointless comment when you are talking about hypercars that are out of reach to many and all have running costs that the Tesla will not come close to, and will all sit in garages not being used. The monaro again very few people are going to be rushing to buy because of running costs.

Instead you are going to have a bunch of people financing these things to high heaven who will then want to show off to their mates and loose control at stupid speeds on public roads. Yes people do this in other cars, but not at anything like the speed this will achieve in such a short period of time.

Key examples are the number of people using autopilot and have had accidents.

Turini

221 posts

133 months

Friday 11th June
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As a demonstration of what can be done this is an amazing vehicle, whether you could handle or in fact need that performance is another question but then any hyper car is going to have many more compromises

My concern isn’t on whether it’s suitable for use on the roads or whether the performance would be too great but the topsy turvy change of directions that seem to be taken by Musk and new products. Seem to be more whim driven than solid project planning and that doesn’t promote much confidence as a consumer