Manufacturer Stingieness

Manufacturer Stingieness

Author
Discussion

DaveH23

2,947 posts

141 months

Monday 22nd November
quotequote all
Krikkit said:
See also, every Porsche ever built... Their options list for a 911, for example, is scandalously bad.
Don't Porsche charge you to take things off?

Court_S

6,236 posts

148 months

Monday 22nd November
quotequote all
Nickbrapp said:
But they are stingy, even the cheapest A1 has led headlights, cruise control etc

This is more about penny pinching not stuff missing I suppose.

Things like the old 1 series, you got cruise as standard on a 114i and then they took it off on the m140i. Why? It’s the same car!
Was cruise ever standard? I don’t think it was, it was always an option as part of the comfort pack even on the early M135i. It wasn’t standard on the E8x cars either; my other half’s old 116 didn’t have it.

donkmeister

4,455 posts

71 months

Monday 22nd November
quotequote all
While looking at 5-10 year old BMWs recently I noticed they seem to have pretty basic specs even if you buy one with a good engine. Given that speccing up a car that you are leasing means you end up spending a lot more each month to cover the options makes me wonder if most of the well-speccd ones were bought by people with long-term or forever ownership in mind, hence these cars don't appear on the used market very often.

595Heaven

1,587 posts

49 months

Monday 22nd November
quotequote all
From the Vivaro Owner Manual:

https://www.vauxhall.co.uk/content/dam/vauxhall/Ho...

Level warnings
Depending on the calculated range of AdBlue, different messages are displayed in the Driver Information Centre. The messages and the restrictions are a legal requirement.
1. The first possible warning is Top up emissions additive: Starting prevented in 1500 mi.
When switching on the ignition, this warning will show up once briefly with the calculated range. Additionally, control indicator B will illuminate and a chime will sound. Driving is possible without any restrictions.
2. The next warning level is entered with a range below 500 miles. The message with the current range will always be displayed when ignition is switched on. Additionally, control indicator B will illuminate and a chime will sound. Refill AdBlue before entering the next warning level.
When driving, the chime sounds and the message is displayed every 60 miles until the AdBlue tank has been topped-up.
3. The next warning level is entered with a range below 60 miles. The message with the current range will always be displayed when ignition is switched on. Additionally, control indicator
Caution
Avoid contact of the paintwork with AdBlue.
In case of contact, rinse off with water.
9 Warning
Avoid contact of your eyes or skin with AdBlue.
In case of eye or skin contact, rinse off with water.

B will flash and a chime will sound. Refill AdBlue as soon as possible before the AdBlue tank is completely empty. Otherwise, a restart of the engine will not be possible.
When driving, the chime sounds and the message is displayed every 6 miles until the AdBlue tank has been topped-up.
4. The last warning level is entered when the AdBlue tank is empty. Restart of the engine is not possible. The following warning message will be displayed:
Top up emissions additive: Starting prevented
Additionally, control indicator B will flash and a chime will sound.
Refill the tank to a level of at least 5 l of AdBlue, otherwise restarti

Court_S

6,236 posts

148 months

Monday 22nd November
quotequote all
donkmeister said:
While looking at 5-10 year old BMWs recently I noticed they seem to have pretty basic specs even if you buy one with a good engine. Given that speccing up a car that you are leasing means you end up spending a lot more each month to cover the options makes me wonder if most of the well-speccd ones were bought by people with long-term or forever ownership in mind, hence these cars don't appear on the used market very often.
I think a lot of people have an eye on the £40k luxury tax too. Creep over it slightly and that cheap option suddenly gets quite a lot more expensive.

Tony33

844 posts

93 months

Monday 22nd November
quotequote all
My BMW comes with auto headlamp dipping “preparation” as standard. What that means is you have to pay a subscription service to enable what has already been fitted. I guess it makes sense not having to manufacture different versions and simplifies the build process, just remotely enable it from a support centre. Still feels a bit mean, installing the hardware and disabling it through software to be unlocked!

Court_S

6,236 posts

148 months

Monday 22nd November
quotequote all
Tony33 said:
My BMW comes with auto headlamp dipping “preparation” as standard. What that means is you have to pay a subscription service to enable what has already been fitted. I guess it makes sense not having to manufacture different versions and simplifies the build process, just remotely enable it from a support centre. Still feels a bit mean, installing the hardware and disabling it through software to be unlocked!

It’s not a new concept. My old Octavia vRS came from the factory with various cameras / sensors fitted but nit enabled unless you paid for the option (eg speed limit sign recognition which I think was a £350 option). If you had / knew someone with VCDS it just needed switching on.

The savings in terms of standardising production lines obviously far outweighs the cost of the components for things like CarPlay, speed limit recognition etc.

Demelitia

412 posts

27 months

Monday 22nd November
quotequote all
Jim the Sunderer said:
No lumber support in the base model Jaguar XF seats. Leather and electrically adjustable though.

So stingy


That’s outrageous, I always think it’s a good thing to have something to support your wood.

mikeiow

3,367 posts

101 months

Monday 22nd November
quotequote all
Nickbrapp said:
Then there’s even more tight-fisted things:

No tire pressuring monitoring
I thought all new cars had to have TPMS from about 2015?

But yeah: it’s all about the pennies…if they can save 80p fitting something, individually it sounds ludicrously tight, but multiply it by the maybe tens of thousands they build, it all adds up!


Nickbrapp

Original Poster:

4,263 posts

101 months

Monday 22nd November
quotequote all
595Heaven said:
From the Vivaro Owner Manual:

https://www.vauxhall.co.uk/content/dam/vauxhall/Ho...

Level warnings
Depending on the calculated range of AdBlue, different messages are displayed in the Driver Information Centre. The messages and the restrictions are a legal requirement.
1. The first possible warning is Top up emissions additive: Starting prevented in 1500 mi.
When switching on the ignition, this warning will show up once briefly with the calculated range. Additionally, control indicator B will illuminate and a chime will sound. Driving is possible without any restrictions.
2. The next warning level is entered with a range below 500 miles. The message with the current range will always be displayed when ignition is switched on. Additionally, control indicator B will illuminate and a chime will sound. Refill AdBlue before entering the next warning level.
When driving, the chime sounds and the message is displayed every 60 miles until the AdBlue tank has been topped-up.
3. The next warning level is entered with a range below 60 miles. The message with the current range will always be displayed when ignition is switched on. Additionally, control indicator
Caution
Avoid contact of the paintwork with AdBlue.
In case of contact, rinse off with water.
9 Warning
Avoid contact of your eyes or skin with AdBlue.
In case of eye or skin contact, rinse off with water.

B will flash and a chime will sound. Refill AdBlue as soon as possible before the AdBlue tank is completely empty. Otherwise, a restart of the engine will not be possible.
When driving, the chime sounds and the message is displayed every 6 miles until the AdBlue tank has been topped-up.
4. The last warning level is entered when the AdBlue tank is empty. Restart of the engine is not possible. The following warning message will be displayed:
Top up emissions additive: Starting prevented
Additionally, control indicator B will flash and a chime will sound.
Refill the tank to a level of at least 5 l of AdBlue, otherwise restarti
I wasn’t saying it didn’t tell you it was low, it just doesn’t have a gauge like in a fuel tank, my old vivaro did. It’s a inconvenience and just a bit of a penny pinching idea. The old one you went into the menu and it had a digital gage with bars on it.


Fastdruid

7,369 posts

123 months

Monday 22nd November
quotequote all
Court_S said:
Nickbrapp said:
But they are stingy, even the cheapest A1 has led headlights, cruise control etc

This is more about penny pinching not stuff missing I suppose.

Things like the old 1 series, you got cruise as standard on a 114i and then they took it off on the m140i. Why? It’s the same car!
Was cruise ever standard? I don’t think it was, it was always an option as part of the comfort pack even on the early M135i. It wasn’t standard on the E8x cars either; my other half’s old 116 didn’t have it.
Thing is, on an old car cruise control needed a whole heap of extra stuff. My Mk2 Mondeo had an extra motor, cable and different throttle body (or at least partly so) not to mention the electronic side which would have monitored the speed and varied the throttle. Finally you had the actual button themselves. It would have been a very justifiable expense as an "option" as it would have cost quite a lot extra.

In comparison modern cars (and by that I mean since the mid 2000's) are all DBW, the "extra" cost at most is those 4-6 buttons, the rest of it is all just in software. For some makes they just lose that extra cost by just making one set of wheel controls (and have cruise control as standard). BMW (and they're not alone) would just rather nickel and dime buyers.

That said due to WLTP manufacturers can't have a billion and one options that each add weight and hence affect the performance so have focused on software features and feature "preparation".

Court_S said:
It’s not a new concept. My old Octavia vRS came from the factory with various cameras / sensors fitted but nit enabled unless you paid for the option (eg speed limit sign recognition which I think was a £350 option). If you had / knew someone with VCDS it just needed switching on.
I don't mind (that much) paying for an extra physical option, it does stick in the craw however to pay to enable something in software. Which is why rather than pay VW we paid someone else to enable App Connect (and the performance display). It was substantially cheaper but I'd still have rather paid someone else than VW even if it wasn't.

bad company

15,292 posts

237 months

Monday 22nd November
quotequote all
I bought a new Jaguar XJ8. I have a problem with cold hands so specked the heated steering wheel. It only worked if the heated seats were on so to keep my hands warm I had to fry my behind.

I’ve never gone back to Jaguar.

Mr Tidy

15,653 posts

98 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Court_S said:
Was cruise ever standard? I don’t think it was, it was always an option as part of the comfort pack even on the early M135i. It wasn’t standard on the E8x cars either; my other half’s old 116 didn’t have it.
I don't think it was either. My E87 123d had it but it was an option.

BMW do seem to be randomly mean though as both my E46 Compacts had cruise as standard, as did my E90 and E91 3 Series.

And yet it was an option on all 3 of my E86 Z4 Coupes - even though they all had electric seat adjustment with drivers' memory as standard. confused

Neddy Sea Goon

115 posts

19 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Had a 2003 Zafira from New. One of the great touches was the clock took its time from the radio RDS, so you never had to set the clock

Here we are, bought a transit custom in 2018, lots of features, but still have to set the clock manually, 2008 Freelander 2, same thing

Progress ? Pah

Hoofy

72,317 posts

253 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
DaveH23 said:
Krikkit said:
See also, every Porsche ever built... Their options list for a 911, for example, is scandalously bad.
Don't Porsche charge you to take things off?
Someone commented on one group, the more expensive the model, the more blank buttons you got. biggrin (Thinking of the GT2 vs the entry level 911 C2.)

donkmeister

4,455 posts

71 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
bad company said:
I bought a new Jaguar XJ8. I have a problem with cold hands so specked the heated steering wheel. It only worked if the heated seats were on so to keep my hands warm I had to fry my behind.

I’ve never gone back to Jaguar.
This raised a smile as possibly the most first world, first world problem I've heard this week...

Bravo sir, bravo. biggrin

Masiv

193 posts

54 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Volvo XC40 Inscription Pro - Top of the range, but they wanted extra to have Android Carplay and adaptive cruise control.

It has normal cruise control though. F#ckin unbelievable.

cmvtec

1,757 posts

52 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Nickbrapp said:
Something I’ve noticed over the last 6 months from having several hire vans and cars, which has got me thinking about how mean manufacturers are when it comes to little technology things.

Take my current Vauxhall vivaro, it’s the top of the range Elite with a on the road price of just over £35,000 but it’s not even got a option to have LED or xenon headlights, I can’t think of any other car that costs 35k with halogen lights

Then there’s even more tight-fisted things:

No tire pressuring monitoring
No Ad blue gauge
Headlight delay when unlocking but no follow me home
Global closing of the windows via the key but not opening

Now those are all things that are pretty standard stuff these days, not exactly outrageous options. How much does it really save to not have the tiny bit of programming to put windows down on the key? My 2001 bora had that!
We've recently sold a 2017 Astra Elite and purchased a 2008 E93 BMW.

On the face of it, the Astra had all the bells and whistles, but billy basic areas were cost cut.

One flip key, second key basic

No windscreen washer low warning light

No gas strut for bonnet

My 2003 Golf has those things standard.

The only thing my other half is missing in the BMW is the lack of heated steering wheel her Astra had.

CheesecakeRunner

1,432 posts

62 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Would like to remind everyone saying “it’s just software” that software is really expensive, complex and difficult to create and maintain. It doesn’t just appear from magic pixies in your car. It’s perfectly justifiable to charge for it, as it often costs more to create than the hardware it runs on or controls.

wibble cb

2,567 posts

178 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
DaveH23 said:
Krikkit said:
See also, every Porsche ever built... Their options list for a 911, for example, is scandalously bad.
Don't Porsche charge you to take things off?
I bought an approved Boxster years ago, the build included a decent head unit, yet this was missing when I looked at the car, I managed to have it re fitted...!