Manufacturer Stingieness

Manufacturer Stingieness

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Discussion

av185

14,371 posts

98 months

Tuesday
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bad company said:
I bought a new Jaguar XJ8. I have a problem with cold hands so specked the heated steering wheel. It only worked if the heated seats were on so to keep my hands warm I had to fry my behind.

I’ve never gone back to Jaguar.
How bizarre.

Even some average spec Vauxhall Corsas have standard heated steering wheel and heated seats which can be switched on independently.

Dog Star

13,124 posts

139 months

Tuesday
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Masiv said:
Volvo XC40 Inscription Pro - Top of the range, but they wanted extra to have Android Carplay and adaptive cruise control.

It has normal cruise control though. F#ckin unbelievable.
Mercedes.

My old (68 plate) E class had CarPlay. But it wasn’t enabled. But Merc wanted £355 or so to enable it. On a £50k car. Absolute disgrace.

Similarly adaptive cruise - the car come with cruise, it has the auto braking, auto parking cameras, warns you if you’re too close to the car in front. So all the adaptive stuff is in place.

All these fancy big screen, bespoke stereos are going to be a bit st in a few years, all out of date. If I’ve got an older car I don’t want electric seats, adaptive cruise and all this malarkey. It’ll get broken and be thousands to fix. Give me AC, electric windows and a double din that I can stick a Sony CarPlay head unit it - job jobbed. Mrs DSs SLK fits this bill.

waynecyclist

2,104 posts

85 months

Tuesday
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Not sure what they are like now but Mini's were terrible, nearly everything was an option or part of a option pack.

I have had 3 and you find strange spec choices like leather seats but not heated or no ac but heated front screen on one.

HTP99

18,862 posts

111 months

Tuesday
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I ways thought the VAG head units all being the same was a bit stingy when the car didn't have sat nav but still had the button, press the button and it will display that the feature isn't available, almost rubbing your nose in it.... "ha ha you've not got satnav"

MattyD803

771 posts

36 months

Tuesday
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Nickbrapp said:
Something I’ve noticed over the last 6 months from having several hire vans and cars, which has got me thinking about how mean manufacturers are when it comes to little technology things.

Take my current Vauxhall vivaro, it’s the top of the range Elite with a on the road price of just over £35,000 but it’s not even got a option to have LED or xenon headlights, I can’t think of any other car that costs 35k with halogen lights

Then there’s even more tight-fisted things:

No tire pressuring monitoring
No Ad blue gauge
Headlight delay when unlocking but no follow me home
Global closing of the windows via the key but not opening

Now those are all things that are pretty standard stuff these days, not exactly outrageous options. How much does it really save to not have the tiny bit of programming to put windows down on the key? My 2001 bora had that!
Had a 2018 Mini Countryman Cooper S with 'JCW', 'Leather' & 'Sport' Packs.....OTR c. £34,000.......It had halogen DRL and Headlamps, no front fogs at all. The worst & most dangerous headlamps I have ever had the misfortune to live with for 2 years. Also no folding mirrors. No driving "mode" selection, so permanently stuck in 'eco'. Most additional 'functions' within the ICE system were disabled / greyed out, which were displayed on the tiniest screen known to man. No reverse cam, of course. rolleyes Not to mention the bodywork (notably the front and rear bumpers) which would deflect and creak as you washed / dried them.....it felt more like something that was built by Dacia, not BMW/Mini. Everything about it just screamed out cheap / cost cutting.

OK - they are all first world problems, but I had just stepped out of a 2015 Golf GTD which at £31k, which had all of the above, and more, as standard (except reverse cam).....and felt a hell of a lot more robust in the process.

Edited by MattyD803 on Tuesday 23 November 08:41

Triumph Man

7,497 posts

139 months

Tuesday
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HTP99 said:
I ways thought the VAG head units all being the same was a bit stingy when the car didn't have sat nav but still had the button, press the button and it will display that the feature isn't available, almost rubbing your nose in it.... "ha ha you've not got satnav"
I once test drove an Audi A3 for my wife, and when testing the features pressed the SatNav button - as you say it came up with "feature not available". Still, I suppose it's cheaper to make the same switchpack for each car. Anyone looking at an ad though would think that it had satnav. Also didn't have rear parking sensors, which surprised me on a 2015 car.

HTP99

18,862 posts

111 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Triumph Man said:
HTP99 said:
I ways thought the VAG head units all being the same was a bit stingy when the car didn't have sat nav but still had the button, press the button and it will display that the feature isn't available, almost rubbing your nose in it.... "ha ha you've not got satnav"
I once test drove an Audi A3 for my wife, and when testing the features pressed the SatNav button - as you say it came up with "feature not available". Still, I suppose it's cheaper to make the same switchpack for each car. Anyone looking at an ad though would think that it had satnav. Also didn't have rear parking sensors, which surprised me on a 2015 car.
Yep, we sold an A1 that we took in as a part exchange, it didn't have sat nav but had the button, 5 minutes after it being collected we got a call from the purchaser "the sat nav isn't working", they were a bit miffed that it didnt have the feature, they just assumed it did, fortunately there was no mention of it having it on the ad.

austinsmirk

4,545 posts

94 months

Tuesday
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It’s all a load of technological tat that no one really needs.

Try buying a Mercedes in the 80’s. Everything and I mean everything was an extra. Surprised the damn things even came with wheels from the factory.

Court_S

6,236 posts

148 months

Tuesday
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MattyD803 said:
Had a 2018 Mini Countryman Cooper S with 'JCW', 'Leather' & 'Sport' Packs.....OTR c. £34,000.......It had halogen DRL and Headlamps, no front fogs at all. The worst & most dangerous headlamps I have ever had the misfortune to live with for 2 years. Also no folding mirrors. No driving "mode" selection, so permanently stuck in 'eco'. Most additional 'functions' within the ICE system were disabled / greyed out, which were displayed on the tiniest screen known to man. No reverse cam, of course. rolleyes Not to mention the bodywork (notably the front and rear bumpers) which would deflect and creak as you washed / dried them.....it felt more like something that was built by Dacia, not BMW/Mini. Everything about it just screamed out cheap / cost cutting.

OK - they are all first world problems, but I had just stepped out of a 2015 Golf GTD which at £31k, which had all of the above, and more, as standard (except reverse cam).....and felt a hell of a lot more robust in the process.

Edited by MattyD803 on Tuesday 23 November 08:41
They’ve been de speccing the cars by the sound of it. We had a 2016 Cooper and didn’t go mad with the spec, the main option being the chilli pack but it has driving modes, LED headlights, cruise etc.

MINI’s have always been pretty tight with the spec. The chilli pack was always a must have on the Cooper / Cooper S.

bad company

15,292 posts

237 months

Tuesday
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donkmeister said:
bad company said:
I bought a new Jaguar XJ8. I have a problem with cold hands so specked the heated steering wheel. It only worked if the heated seats were on so to keep my hands warm I had to fry my behind.

I’ve never gone back to Jaguar.
This raised a smile as possibly the most first world, first world problem I've heard this week...

Bravo sir, bravo. biggrin
Not really:-

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/raynauds/

Tango13

6,482 posts

147 months

Tuesday
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Neddy Sea Goon said:
Had a 2003 Zafira from New. One of the great touches was the clock took its time from the radio RDS, so you never had to set the clock

Here we are, bought a transit custom in 2018, lots of features, but still have to set the clock manually, 2008 Freelander 2, same thing

Progress ? Pah
My 370Z has two clocks for some bizzare reason, one takes it's time from the radio or GPS and doesn't need resetting and the other has to be manually set!

Progress is such a wonderful thing banghead

alangla

3,302 posts

152 months

Tuesday
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Fastdruid said:
Thing is, on an old car cruise control needed a whole heap of extra stuff. My Mk2 Mondeo had an extra motor, cable and different throttle body (or at least partly so) not to mention the electronic side which would have monitored the speed and varied the throttle. Finally you had the actual button themselves. It would have been a very justifiable expense as an "option" as it would have cost quite a lot extra.

In comparison modern cars (and by that I mean since the mid 2000's) are all DBW, the "extra" cost at most is those 4-6 buttons, the rest of it is all just in software. For some makes they just lose that extra cost by just making one set of wheel controls (and have cruise control as standard). BMW (and they're not alone) would just rather nickel and dime buyers.
When the Mk7 Fiesta ST came out, there was originally only the ST1 & 2 models. Neither had cruise control, but if you could get yourself the switch unit and steering wheel bezel from a Fiesta Titanium or similar, then it was a simple on/off operation in the ECU to get cruise control to work.

The ST3 that was launched a couple of years later came, unsurprisingly, with factory fitted cruise control. The "upgrade" must have cost Ford all of £2-3 in extra parts.

mikeiow

3,367 posts

101 months

Tuesday
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Thread reminds me why I moved into Saab & not BMW many years ago…..
Looking at getting my first brand new car.
Touring the dealers.
Checked the 3-series: the option list book was almost as thick as the glossy for the car eek
Dropped into Saab: went for the 9-3 Aero, it had everything on cool
Loved that “night light” button to calm down the dash on nighttime drives!
3 cars and over 300k miles later, the buggers went bust. Bah!

Djtemeka

1,433 posts

163 months

Tuesday
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GranpaB said:
There must be an Adblue gauge hidden in a menu somewhere maybe?
My vivaro doesn’t have a coolant temp gauge…
Just a blue temp display that disappears.

Then suddenly reappears as a red coolant display with “IMMINENT ENGINE FAILURE!” Warning after my coolant hose popped.

No needle climbing etc. handy when you’re on a 4 lane highway and need to stop quickly! :/

MattyD803

771 posts

36 months

Tuesday
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Court_S said:
They’ve been de speccing the cars by the sound of it. We had a 2016 Cooper and didn’t go mad with the spec, the main option being the chilli pack but it has driving modes, LED headlights, cruise etc.

MINI’s have always been pretty tight with the spec. The chilli pack was always a must have on the Cooper / Cooper S.
This was a 'pre-allocated' build slot, so other than a choice of 3 colours, we had no choice in terms of building up the spec, which actually suited me at the time as I needed something fairly urgently and this was with me within a month.....but your right, I think the 'JCW Chili Pack' would have resolved a lot of my gripes I believe (Lighting, ICE & Driving Modes)....but from what I can see, that would have added a further £2k on the list price! eek Nonetheless, a shockingly stingy level of spec (and build quality) for the money, even if it was my fault for not reading the brochure properly!

clockworks

3,945 posts

116 months

Tuesday
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Dingu said:
Would we really prefer an extra £10k+ on base list for things we might not want?
If all these things were standard, they wouldn't cost £10k+. The manufacturer might still charge that much, but it can be done a lot cheaper.

I bought a Kia Picanto GT-Line S 2 years ago.
It came with:

Heated seats and steering wheel
Decent infotainment - nav, USB, Bluetooth, reversing camera, etc.
Wireless phone charging
Electric sunroof
Climate control

The only thing on the options list for this model was paint colour
List price was £15.5k

Kia seem to do things a bit differently to most manufacturers, by making 4 or 5 different trim levels of each car, and bundling the "options" to the trim level. This must simplify the production line, and keep costs down.

As a contrast, I've just bought a 2012 Mercedes C220 AMG Sport coupe. No heated seats, but they are electrically operated. It doesn't even have a 12v outlet for the rear seats, which seems remarkably stingy.


Edited by clockworks on Tuesday 23 November 09:31

The spinner of plates

15,693 posts

171 months

Tuesday
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CheesecakeRunner said:
Would like to remind everyone saying “it’s just software” that software is really expensive, complex and difficult to create and maintain. It doesn’t just appear from magic pixies in your car. It’s perfectly justifiable to charge for it, as it often costs more to create than the hardware it runs on or controls.
Agreed. If they don’t charge customers money for the benefits, they can’t pay the people who do the development, testing etc.

Edited by The spinner of plates on Tuesday 23 November 09:45

Cyder

6,879 posts

191 months

Tuesday
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The spinner of plates said:
CheesecakeRunner said:
Would like to remind everyone saying “it’s just software” that software is really expensive, complex and difficult to create and maintain. It doesn’t just appear from magic pixies in your car. It’s perfectly justifiable to charge for it, as it often costs more to create than the hardware it runs on or controls.
Agreed. If they don’t charge customers money for the benefits, they can’t pay the people who do the developKent, testing etc.
All while the punter wants to pay £99 deposit and £99/month for 3 years PCP.
It's clear from threads like this that an awful lot of people seem to think OEM's have monstrous profit margins and should just dish features out for free.

Dingu

278 posts

1 month

Tuesday
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clockworks said:
If all these things were standard, they wouldn't cost £10k+. The manufacturer might still charge that much, but it can be done a lot cheaper.


Edited by clockworks on Tuesday 23 November 09:31
Oh I agree. The cost could well be minimal with the amount of features that are fitted but not activated. It was the cost to the customer I meant, should have been clearer.

Court_S

6,236 posts

148 months

Tuesday
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alangla said:
When the Mk7 Fiesta ST came out, there was originally only the ST1 & 2 models. Neither had cruise control, but if you could get yourself the switch unit and steering wheel bezel from a Fiesta Titanium or similar, then it was a simple on/off operation in the ECU to get cruise control to work.

The ST3 that was launched a couple of years later came, unsurprisingly, with factory fitted cruise control. The "upgrade" must have cost Ford all of £2-3 in extra parts.
It was a relatively easy retrofit in my 1 series; new set set of stalks and a lower steering column cowl from eBay, all plugged in easily enough before paying someone £40 to do the coding.

MattyD803 said:
This was a 'pre-allocated' build slot, so other than a choice of 3 colours, we had no choice in terms of building up the spec, which actually suited me at the time as I needed something fairly urgently and this was with me within a month.....but your right, I think the 'JCW Chili Pack' would have resolved a lot of my gripes I believe (Lighting, ICE & Driving Modes)....but from what I can see, that would have added a further £2k on the list price! eek Nonetheless, a shockingly stingy level of spec (and build quality) for the money, even if it was my fault for not reading the brochure properly!
Our Cooper felt pretty well made, certainly no issues with bumper quality like you have mentioned. It was only a three week wait for a factory order too. To rub further salt in the wound, the LED headlights were amazing, although we were always getting flashed because people thought the main beams were on.

It was certainly technically better than the three early MINi’s that I owned before but neither of us were bothered when it went. I never felt it had the same sense of fun.