Petrol prices- when does the madness end?

[cuprabob]

Fusion777 said:

Oil prices are so bizarre. WTI is now $89, was over $120 in June. What's changed? Is demand really much lower two months later, or is more just coming on stream? Perhaps much of it has been driven by speculation?

I'm not complaining...

I think a lot of it is traders speculating and the price is falling due to the anticipated drop in demand due to the forthcoming recession.

[Smint]

cuprabob said:

I think a lot of it is traders speculating and the price is falling due to the anticipated drop in demand due to the forthcoming recession.

Its not just the forthcoming recession at work here, though agree we're rushing headlong into serious trouble economically thanks partly to politicians throwing fake money around like confetti.

I and many others are doing all they can not to pay through the nose for everything, we've cut right back on all non essential motoring until such time as fuel prices go back to more sensible levels, not playing end of.
This includes food shopping etc where staple foods from the likes of Lidl are considerable cheaper than the same items from the main supermarkets, maybe i'm wrong, often am, but i get the feeling out and about that people are getting ever more fed up of being ripped off and doing whatever they can not to feed the monster.

[swamp]

Fusion777 said:

Oil prices are so bizarre. WTI is now $89, was over $120 in June. What's changed? Is demand really much lower two months later, or is more just coming on stream? Perhaps much of it has been driven by speculation?

I'm not complaining...

Interest rates have risen, especially in the US. This will increase the cost of borrowing and put a downward pressure on the economy and so reduce future demand for oil.

There is also a desire amongst western governments to see oil prices reduce even further, to stop Putin from financing his war in Ukraine (Russian oil is very expensive to produce). Some people are predicting $60 a barrel by December, which would be great news for drivers.

[ingenieur]

Smint said:

cuprabob said:

I think a lot of it is traders speculating and the price is falling due to the anticipated drop in demand due to the forthcoming recession.

Its not just the forthcoming recession at work here, though agree we're rushing headlong into serious trouble economically thanks partly to politicians throwing fake money around like confetti.

I and many others are doing all they can not to pay through the nose for everything, we've cut right back on all non essential motoring until such time as fuel prices go back to more sensible levels, not playing end of.
This includes food shopping etc where staple foods from the likes of Lidl are considerable cheaper than the same items from the main supermarkets, maybe i'm wrong, often am, but i get the feeling out and about that people are getting ever more fed up of being ripped off and doing whatever they can not to feed the monster.

Part of the problem is the subscription life we have now. Things which just didn't used to cost anything are suddenly part of monthly bills, all areas of live have become monetised. And maybe computerisation is to blame but it seems the idea of saving money is now a thing of the past as they've found a way to applying costs to everything you do, I'm assuming through analysis of data. Costs for just existing like council tax and car insurance. The bloody mortgage as well.. I think ours is relatively small compared to what some are paying but it would have been a big mortgage 20 years ago.

[time waster]

swamp said:

Fusion777 said:

Oil prices are so bizarre. WTI is now $89, was over $120 in June. What's changed? Is demand really much lower two months later, or is more just coming on stream? Perhaps much of it has been driven by speculation?

I'm not complaining...

Interest rates have risen, especially in the US. This will increase the cost of borrowing and put a downward pressure on the economy and so reduce future demand for oil.

There is also a desire amongst western governments to see oil prices reduce even further, to stop Putin from financing his war in Ukraine (Russian oil is very expensive to produce). Some people are predicting $60 a barrel by December, which would be great news for drivers.

The energy companies make super profits, as it costs them the same to extract. Hence recent profits from shell bp etc

[bigothunter]

Smint said:

I and many others are doing all they can not to pay through the nose for everything, we've cut right back on all non essential motoring until such time as fuel prices go back to more sensible levels, not playing end of.
This includes food shopping etc where staple foods from the likes of Lidl are considerable cheaper than the same items from the main supermarkets, maybe i'm wrong, often am, but i get the feeling out and about that people are getting ever more fed up of being ripped off and doing whatever they can not to feed the monster.

Tensions are building and will be amplified as cold weather approaches. Not just petrol prices but exorbitant costs across the board. Something has to give.

Historically such times have led to social unrest and political upheaval. General strikes, street rioting, far left socialist government - anything is possible. Can't imagine Liz or Rishi being up to the challenge...

[Mirinjawbro]

smash this country to the ground.

what it deserves.

greed, lies, filth, corruption.

that's the world these days, and its only going to get worse

[ingenieur]

Mirinjawbro said:

smash this country to the ground.

what it deserves.

greed, lies, filth, corruption.

that's the world these days, and its only going to get worse

That's what's known as "declinism"

"the tendency to see the past in an overly positive light and to view the present or future in an overly negative light"

[Shiv_P]

Costco generally make very little money on the fuel or even a small loss, so here is actual pricing for you

[bigothunter]

ingenieur said:

That's what's known as "declinism"

"the tendency to see the past in an overly positive light and to view the present or future in an overly negative light"

Ant & Declinism have that effect on me. The overriding sensation of utter despair...

[Smint]

bigothunter said:

Ant & Declinism have that effect on me. The overriding sensation of utter despair...

Not having a telly licence so gratefully avoiding all such rubbish i concur.

[foxbody-87]

captain.scarlet said:

Is there a forthcoming ban for HGVs as well or is there (at least for now) an amnesty?

I can't remember the source but I'm sure I read something about HGVs possibly being additionally powered by overhead cables on motorways at least, like trams and trolleybuses.

It does seem a tad far-fetched right now given the additional infrastructure needed. God knows how that would pan out. However, it would I suppose be another means by which revenue can be generated, and it still doesn't tackle the first issue of how feasible it would be to switch trucking to electric and how and by when it could be achieved.

Edited by captain.scarlet on Saturday 18th June 10:20

I was watching quite an interesting video about battery-EV trucks, impressive technology but the weight of the batteries means the weight for the payload is essentially not worth even running the truck. Regarding the electrified motorways - in my opinion a massive vanity project that will never take off. Take it from someone with 15 years in rail electrification, it’s hard enough running and maintaining an electric railway with trains that can’t deviate from a set route never mind HGVs with two pantographs. Imagine the tailback when the first tear down happens in lane 1!

[bigothunter]

foxbody-87 said:

Regarding the electrified motorways - in my opinion a massive vanity project that will never take off. Take it from someone with 15 years in rail electrification, it’s hard enough running and maintaining an electric railway with trains that can’t deviate from a set route never mind HGVs with two pantographs. Imagine the tailback when the first tear down happens in lane 1!

Interesting comments from an informed source - thanks

Overhead network is extensive across Europe, including high speed trains. Would have thought reliability, durability and service implications of overhead lines would be comprehensively understood and under control by now. Are in-service problems really that significant ?

[anonymous-user]

bigothunter said:

Interesting comments from an informed source - thanks

Overhead network is extensive across Europe, including high speed trains. Would have thought reliability, durability and service implications of overhead lines would be comprehensively understood and under control by now. Are in-service problems really that significant ?

Understood and under control is a very long way from easy, straightforward, and cheap! Incidentally I saw busses in Lithuania that use overhead lines last month, it's very common for it to come off the power lines and for the driver to have to get out and fk around to get the pantograph back in place.

Lorries can't manage to drive on a wide flawlessly sighted perfectly level multi lane road where all the cars are going in the same direction at more or less the same speed without crushing the odd family to death when they're on the vinegar strokes, I can't imagine anything requiring more attention and skill going well.

[foxbody-87]

It’s almost as if replacing the two wires with only one live wire, and replacing the road with a fixed route formed from steel rails that also acted as the return path for the current would be the solution

[bigothunter]

foxbody-87 said:

It’s almost as if replacing the two wires with only one live wire, and replacing the road with a fixed route formed from steel rails that also acted as the return path for the current would be the solution

foxbody-87 said:

Take it from someone with 15 years in rail electrification, it’s hard enough running and maintaining an electric railway with trains that can’t deviate from a set route.

Hmmm

[foxbody-87]

bigothunter said:

Hmmm

nobody said it was a perfect system…!

[DonkeyApple]

Fusion777 said:

Oil prices are so bizarre. WTI is now $89, was over $120 in June. What's changed? Is demand really much lower two months later, or is more just coming on stream? Perhaps much of it has been driven by speculation?

I'm not complaining...

Russia is having to sell at a heavy discount to India and China as the West isn't buying. Global recession fears mean less oil demand in the future. The supply constraints will keep slowly lifting unless oil dips too cheap.

Ultimately, it was a comprehensive failure of global governments to ensure during Covid that the oil producers maintained wells as opposed to leaving the industry to have to mothball many as the oil price collapsed and the industry lost $billions. Many of the same governments also failed to maintain reserves during that period so post lockdown added to the problem by having to restock.

The main driver has been China who has had to both restock reserves and also ramp up tat production. But it's looking like the Western tat consumers are going to have to take a break from buying rubbish they can't afford for a little bit so a lot of Chinese demand pressure is weakening.

[ingenieur]

DonkeyApple said:

Fusion777 said:

Oil prices are so bizarre. WTI is now $89, was over $120 in June. What's changed? Is demand really much lower two months later, or is more just coming on stream? Perhaps much of it has been driven by speculation?

I'm not complaining...

Russia is having to sell at a heavy discount to India and China as the West isn't buying. Global recession fears mean less oil demand in the future. The supply constraints will keep slowly lifting unless oil dips too cheap.

Ultimately, it was a comprehensive failure of global governments to ensure during Covid that the oil producers maintained wells as opposed to leaving the industry to have to mothball many as the oil price collapsed and the industry lost $billions. Many of the same governments also failed to maintain reserves during that period so post lockdown added to the problem by having to restock.

The main driver has been China who has had to both restock reserves and also ramp up tat production. But it's looking like the Western tat consumers are going to have to take a break from buying rubbish they can't afford for a little bit so a lot of Chinese demand pressure is weakening.

It's the cost of lockdown. We shouldn't have done it.

[DonkeyApple]

ingenieur said:

It's the cost of lockdown. We shouldn't have done it.

That's an endless debate. Personally, I view the first one as very logical along with paying people a lot of money to sit at home and chill. The second one either shouldn't have happened or should have been strictly for the over 55s who were the greatest risk of overloading the NHS and if working and unable to wfh should have been on a furlough.

But what's done is done and the real problem is that we have no moral right to leave it to the younger people to pay for yet we have political parties beholden to the older groups who have had a lifetime to set themselves up to weather such a storm.

Ultimately there's no real right or wrong apart from it being unacceptable to leave any of the cost to the youngest and future workers. It's a bill that must be paid by every adult and nothing left of the tab for kids to pick up.