RE: 'No frills' Prodrive P25 already sold out

RE: 'No frills' Prodrive P25 already sold out

Author
Discussion

viggyp

1,917 posts

134 months

Sunday 26th June 2022
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I love these kind of cars but that price makes the Amos Futurista Integrale seem like a bargain and that looks so much more special both inside and out.

sledge68

749 posts

196 months

Monday 27th June 2022
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everyone who bought one as sold out.

hornbaek said:
Half a million pounds for a Subaru - who on earth is going to pay that sort of money.

m3jappa

6,391 posts

217 months

Monday 27th June 2022
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It does sound like a lot of money for something which is essentially just a brand new modified subaru.

How much would it cost to build it yourself? there doesn't seem to be anything or much which is revolutionary, its not a restomod as such either.

I don't know, just sounds a lot. I suppose though it will be well put together and reliable (although i cant see any of them used properly). Unlike a normal modified car thats constantly breaking stuff.

That said its a British company so good luck to them if they can get it.

mike74

3,687 posts

131 months

Monday 27th June 2022
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MDMA . said:
Welcome to capitalism.
I doubt anyone who is wealthy enough to drop half a million pounds on one of these without giving it a second thought has acquired their immense fortune thanks to Free Market Capitalism... more likely they've got Corporatism to thank for being in the position they're in.

Capitalism and Corporatism are two very different systems and I'm pretty sure which one we have now.

0ddball

859 posts

138 months

Monday 27th June 2022
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Surely the bubble on these type of cars will burst in a generation or two. They mean something to the 40-50 year old wealthy bloke who remembers the golden days. But none of the young lads in my office care about, or even know what it is. They don't know what a TT supra is, and they've only heard their dad mention one of those old super fast 200bhp (lol) cosworths. They certainly won't be paying £700-1m for it in 20 years time, unless it was purely as a sound investment. And it's only an investment if it's desirable. In a generation of people who want the new flying Tesla 100000x, I can't see there being much interest in these old classics.

mike74

3,687 posts

131 months

Monday 27th June 2022
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0ddball said:
Surely the bubble on these type of cars will burst in a generation or two. They mean something to the 40-50 year old wealthy bloke who remembers the golden days. But none of the young lads in my office care about, or even know what it is. They don't know what a TT supra is, and they've only heard their dad mention one of those old super fast 200bhp (lol) cosworths. They certainly won't be paying £700-1m for it in 20 years time, unless it was purely as a sound investment. And it's only an investment if it's desirable. In a generation of people who want the new flying Tesla 100000x, I can't see there being much interest in these old classics.
Classic cars have always been a generational thing, it's just the current crop of in vogue and desirable classic cars from the 80's and 90's has coincided with the biggest cheap money fuelled asset price bubble the world has ever known, plus the scrappage scheme has probably led to lower numbers of cars from this particular time period.

Harrypop

2,611 posts

121 months

Monday 27th June 2022
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0ddball said:
Surely the bubble on these type of cars will burst in a generation or two. They mean something to the 40-50 year old wealthy bloke who remembers the golden days. But none of the young lads in my office care about, or even know what it is. They don't know what a TT supra is, and they've only heard their dad mention one of those old super fast 200bhp (lol) cosworths. They certainly won't be paying £700-1m for it in 20 years time, unless it was purely as a sound investment. And it's only an investment if it's desirable. In a generation of people who want the new flying Tesla 100000x, I can't see there being much interest in these old classics.
If the opinions of the lads in your office are not wholly representative of the world's population of youngsters then I can't possibly imagine what would be.

big_rob_sydney

3,394 posts

193 months

Monday 27th June 2022
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0ddball said:
Surely the bubble on these type of cars will burst in a generation or two. They mean something to the 40-50 year old wealthy bloke who remembers the golden days. But none of the young lads in my office care about, or even know what it is. They don't know what a TT supra is, and they've only heard their dad mention one of those old super fast 200bhp (lol) cosworths. They certainly won't be paying £700-1m for it in 20 years time, unless it was purely as a sound investment. And it's only an investment if it's desirable. In a generation of people who want the new flying Tesla 100000x, I can't see there being much interest in these old classics.
I'm sure there are a lot of variables to this discussion, but there are many cars that are older than a generation or two, which have gone for big money.

samoht

5,631 posts

145 months

Monday 27th June 2022
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'In a generation or two' = ~50 years, yes I can well believe that values of classic 90s performance cars will be dropping by 2072.

However that still leaves a long time in which to enjoy these cars and potentially to sell them on for the same or a greater sum.

simundo777

131 posts

170 months

Monday 27th June 2022
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Every fibre of my being should love this car BUT I just think it's ridiculous.

Genuinely don't understand why anyone would choose one of these over an original 22B (albeit the time taken waiting for one to come on sale).

The 22B is:
better looking (the P25 wheels look plain daft, too big, crap design, wrong colour)
sounds better (that classic Subaru warble appears to be gone - from the videos I've seen)
has a better interior (i like alcantara as much as the next bloke but this is just laughable. It's like the trimmer had nothing else to use)
is much cheaper
will be a much better financial investment (surely no matter how wealthy you are, you'd want to be looking after your £500K investment)
I won't even start of the manual vs auto subject.

End of story. I feel Prodrive has lost some of it's cred.

Insert Coin

1,965 posts

42 months

Monday 27th June 2022
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simundo777 said:
Every fibre of my being should love this car BUT I just think it's ridiculous.

Genuinely don't understand why anyone would choose one of these over an original 22B (albeit the time taken waiting for one to come on sale).

The 22B is:
better looking (the P25 wheels look plain daft, too big, crap design, wrong colour)
sounds better (that classic Subaru warble appears to be gone - from the videos I've seen)
has a better interior (i like alcantara as much as the next bloke but this is just laughable. It's like the trimmer had nothing else to use)
is much cheaper
will be a much better financial investment (surely no matter how wealthy you are, you'd want to be looking after your £500K investment)
I won't even start of the manual vs auto subject.

End of story. I feel Prodrive has lost some of it's cred.
Another poster failing to understand how the vehicle shown is a development mule, so you can pick your own colour, wheels, interior etc.

You could probably ask for a bespoke manual/semi auto gearbox too if your pockets are deep enough.

Talksteer

4,843 posts

232 months

Monday 27th June 2022
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Harrypop said:
0ddball said:
Surely the bubble on these type of cars will burst in a generation or two. They mean something to the 40-50 year old wealthy bloke who remembers the golden days. But none of the young lads in my office care about, or even know what it is. They don't know what a TT supra is, and they've only heard their dad mention one of those old super fast 200bhp (lol) cosworths. They certainly won't be paying £700-1m for it in 20 years time, unless it was purely as a sound investment. And it's only an investment if it's desirable. In a generation of people who want the new flying Tesla 100000x, I can't see there being much interest in these old classics.
If the opinions of the lads in your office are not wholly representative of the world's population of youngsters then I can't possibly imagine what would be.
Over time views change, the most basic way of measuring this is simply how classic car values have risen. Car buyers have collectively decided to expand the scope of what is considered a valuable or desirable car. At some point most classics have transitioned from being a used car to a classic to an investment/work of art.

Classic cars are an acquired taste, as you get into the subject you move from just the obvious poster cars of your childhood to appreciating other vehicles you discover as your knowledge increases. Asking young people about cars to try to guess what will be valuable in the future is like asking a 6 year old about wine.

Take the 964-RS, it was not a critical success when it cam out, it was not on teenage boys bedroom walls (that was the 993 Turbo). It depreciated like a normal used car basically pegging its value against a new car of approximately equivalent performance until about 2004. Then the 993RS started going up in value as owners started comparing it favourable with the 996 GT3/RS and referencing it back to the original RS, it drew attention to the more hardcore 964-RS and it rapidly appreciated. The whole 993 model range started to trend up at which point the market started reevaluating the 964 realising that it had the classic 911 looks but day to day usability. Then it all went nuts and any pre-plastic bumper 911 started to trend up and up in value, you could get 1970's 911 for £8k 15 years ago it was a banger, now you can sell a restored one for £150-200k.

The Impreza was a bedroom wall car, the people who wanted one in the 90's are now middle aged and the cars are become rare enough that demand is exceeding supply. Even if no new people decide they like Impreza's the youngest people who have a real world first hand connection are probably about 25. Ergo there isn't going to be an issue with demand fading for about 50-60 years, and that assumes that preferences aren't passed on, there are plenty of classic sports cars which are now old enough that there are no people around who drove them in their prime which still command insane prices.

Serious question, has there ever been a classic sports car that has fallen out of favour due to changing tastes or its fan's dying off?




mcpoot

782 posts

106 months

Monday 27th June 2022
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hornbaek said:
Half a million pounds for a Subaru - who on earth is going to pay that sort of money.
I'd hazard a guess that 25 people will. Don't ask me how I know that.

s m

23,164 posts

202 months

Monday 27th June 2022
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mcpoot said:
hornbaek said:
Half a million pounds for a Subaru - who on earth is going to pay that sort of money.
I'd hazard a guess that 25 people will. Don't ask me how I know that.
Yep, first rule of Rich W applies to this

Jon_S_Rally

3,382 posts

87 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
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simundo777 said:
Every fibre of my being should love this car BUT I just think it's ridiculous.

Genuinely don't understand why anyone would choose one of these over an original 22B (albeit the time taken waiting for one to come on sale).

The 22B is:
better looking (the P25 wheels look plain daft, too big, crap design, wrong colour)
sounds better (that classic Subaru warble appears to be gone - from the videos I've seen)
has a better interior (i like alcantara as much as the next bloke but this is just laughable. It's like the trimmer had nothing else to use)
is much cheaper
will be a much better financial investment (surely no matter how wealthy you are, you'd want to be looking after your £500K investment)
I won't even start of the manual vs auto subject.

End of story. I feel Prodrive has lost some of it's cred.
I think you're rather missing the point of a bespoke restomod. Customers can spec the car to their liking, so most of what you're complaining about could be changed. David Lapworth has even said that some customers have asked about having a manual gearbox and that they're looking in to offering it.

DaveyBoyWonder

2,463 posts

173 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
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Regardless of the P25 cost, this pic alone makes me want a 2 door classic Scooby more than ever:


kiwiIM

28 posts

67 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
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Seriously? 500k for a Subaru?
I have better things to spend my money on. Give me a suitably tricked RS6 or M5 anyday.

simundo777

131 posts

170 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
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Jon_S_Rally said:
simundo777 said:
Every fibre of my being should love this car BUT I just think it's ridiculous.

Genuinely don't understand why anyone would choose one of these over an original 22B (albeit the time taken waiting for one to come on sale).

The 22B is:
better looking (the P25 wheels look plain daft, too big, crap design, wrong colour)
sounds better (that classic Subaru warble appears to be gone - from the videos I've seen)
has a better interior (i like alcantara as much as the next bloke but this is just laughable. It's like the trimmer had nothing else to use)
is much cheaper
will be a much better financial investment (surely no matter how wealthy you are, you'd want to be looking after your £500K investment)
I won't even start of the manual vs auto subject.

End of story. I feel Prodrive has lost some of it's cred.
I think you're rather missing the point of a bespoke restomod. Customers can spec the car to their liking, so most of what you're complaining about could be changed. David Lapworth has even said that some customers have asked about having a manual gearbox and that they're looking in to offering it.
Ok I'll admit I didn't realise they will do anything you want or though I can't see them creating every car totally different. In the video i've seen they've talked about being a more fast road spec and a more serious stripped out spec. If they will genuinley do what Singer do and make each one a bespoke work of art then I stand correct and will eat humble pie.

Even so the amount of hype around this car was HUGE so when Prodrive decided to bring one to Goodwood you'd have thought they would have considered all these points. This should be their flagship one so why show it with daft wheels and a crap interior.

clintthrust

33 posts

218 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
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The knock on effect for Prodrive values will be immense.

Premsing

27 posts

21 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
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Half a million for P25?? I understand it is something special but there are far more special hyper cars you can get for the money!! Lamborghini? Ferrari? McLaren? I lost few hair scratching my head ☹️ I was a proud owner of P1 not long ago.I sold it for £22000. This is peanuts comparing with P25 and yet P1 is almost similar.Seeing this I kind of regret parting with my P1.