RE: Unforced induction into wagon theory | PH Footnote

RE: Unforced induction into wagon theory | PH Footnote

Author
Discussion

xu5

394 posts

138 months

Monday 19th September
quotequote all
Jon_S_Rally said:
xu5 said:
I remember watching a video Matt Watson of carwow did comparing the Mazda 2 1.5 NA to a fiesta 1.0t where he compared the overtaking prowess of each in 4th gear. Obviously he praised the low down eardge of small turbo but it was pretty a lame point to highlight I thought as anyone that actually knows how to drive would have dropped a gear or two, the Mazda 2 can push 70 in 2nd. I guess being able to drive lazy is a big plus for most even in small fun to drive cars.


Edited by xu5 on Monday 19th September 09:52
Why does it have to mean being "lazy", or about "knowing how to drive"? We're not talking about a sports car, we're talking about a run-of-the-mill road car.

You don't need to act like a driving god all the time.
I do not act or regard myself as a driving god. I am someone who enjoys extracting (limited) performance from simple cars. Indeed in his video Matt highlighted that both cars were good examples of quite fun liw budget cars. Horses for courses I know.

dontlookdown

1,032 posts

74 months

Monday 19th September
quotequote all
I have that engine in a Mazda 3 Sport. I like NA but performance is adequate rather than outstanding. In the 6 estate I should think it's rather hard work.

Article is right that it doesn't sing. It's too linear, lacks the moment where it comes on cam and wakes up.

Like Mazda's generally though, they are well made and reliable but also decent to drive as a rule.

Totally agree that estates deserve a renaissance.

Jon_S_Rally

2,276 posts

69 months

Monday 19th September
quotequote all
xu5 said:
I do not act or regard myself as a driving god. I am someone who enjoys extracting (limited) performance from simple cars. Indeed in his video Matt highlighted that both cars were good examples of quite fun liw budget cars. Horses for courses I know.
That's fine, but it doesn't mean it's for everyone, or that people are lazy because they want a car that has enough grunt to not need endless gear changing.

NGK210

2,000 posts

126 months

Monday 19th September
quotequote all
ChocolateFrog said:
Shame it'll be rotten underneath before it's 10th birthday like all Mazda's.
It’s the same with 4Runners, Land Cruisers, et al: Toyota goes to all the trouble of sourcing / making bombproof components but then can’t be arsed to galvanise the bodyshell and/or chassis frame or slap on some underseal.

Why?? confused

123RY

126 posts

61 months

Monday 19th September
quotequote all
Jon_S_Rally said:
That's fine, but it doesn't mean it's for everyone, or that people are lazy because they want a car that has enough grunt to not need endless gear changing.
+1
Especially in a mazda 6 tourer.

nickfrog

17,673 posts

198 months

Monday 19th September
quotequote all
123RY said:
Jon_S_Rally said:
That's fine, but it doesn't mean it's for everyone, or that people are lazy because they want a car that has enough grunt to not need endless gear changing.
+1
Especially in a mazda 6 tourer.
Yes, I am surprised they even do a manual. Now auto is proper lazy and perfect for a family car.

forzaminardi

2,179 posts

168 months

Tuesday 20th September
quotequote all
Here in Australia, Mazdas are VERY popular and the brand is pitching for a more premium positioning, angling more at the Lexus side of things than the Toyota. The 6 sedan and estate are probably the best selling cars in their segment, albeit those segments are now small and continue to decline. The Atenza spec models are VERY good looking imo, especially in the metallic red and blue colours. The 2.5 turbo engine in available in Oz and this makes a pretty compelling proposition as a well-priced, very well-equipped, great-looking and surprisingly swift family car that isn't a SUV.

For being a pretty mainstream car, I find the 6 to be remarkably good looking. Very high on my list of next car to have.

alex_2015

79 posts

16 months

Tuesday 20th September
quotequote all
I test drove a Mazda 6 with N/A 184hp Skyactive-G some years ago. I merged to the highway at 70-80 km/h in 4th and upshifted at 3000 rpm. I remember that it took literally forever to reach to 120. The engine was revving so loud but the speedometer needle was barely advancing. Ok shifting so low is not appropriate for N/A engines but still not an appropriate engine for that car. At that time I was driving a Laguna 3 1.5 dci 110hp that was night and day better at accelerating due to torque.
I tested also the 2.2 skyactive diesel which was better but still the car cost almost 40k euros in the trim before the top one. I ended up buying a Bmw 420d GC for 42k (after discount). Better at everything, def better engine, road dynamics, agility. Style is subjective but I liked that too.

Now my dd is a Civic X sedan 1.5 turbo gasoline 183hp 260nm. Ok Civic is 250kg lighter but this engine would be still more appropriate in such a car as Mazda 6. It's a technical mastership responsive, torquy and good consumption for gasoline engines. Also the sound when revved above 4000 is nice wiithout getting annoyong. You have all the torque around 3000-4000, no need to go higher.

Edited by alex_2015 on Tuesday 20th September 06:28


Edited by alex_2015 on Tuesday 20th September 06:29

mersontheperson

380 posts

146 months

Tuesday 20th September
quotequote all
tgrobbo said:
…They don’t offer the CX-9 in Japan, all a bit strange…
CX9 is too wide for Japanese regulations. It’s mainly for the American market and thus doesn’t even comes in diesel. What is strange is that they even bothered making it in RHD, given it didn’t come to the UK.
I don’t think the CX-9 is any bigger than a Toyota Landcruiser, or the other largest Euro SUV’s. There is no regulation that stops a car like the CX9 being sold, I just think that almost Japanese buyer would buy a CX9 over a CX8 as the roads are so small

forzaminardi

2,179 posts

168 months

Tuesday 20th September
quotequote all
mersontheperson said:
I don’t think the CX-9 is any bigger than a Toyota Landcruiser, or the other largest Euro SUV’s. There is no regulation that stops a car like the CX9 being sold, I just think that almost Japanese buyer would buy a CX9 over a CX8 as the roads are so small
CX-9 is pretty popular in Oz. Strange though, that they've not offered it in the UK.

mersontheperson

380 posts

146 months

Tuesday 20th September
quotequote all
tgrobbo said:
…They don’t offer the CX-9 in Japan, all a bit strange…
CX9 is too wide for Japanese regulations. It’s mainly for the American market and thus doesn’t even comes in diesel. What is strange is that they even bothered making it in RHD, given it didn’t come to the UK.
I don’t think the CX-9 is any bigger than a Toyota Landcruiser, or the other largest Euro SUV’s. There is no regulation that stops a car like the CX9 being sold, I just think that almost Japanese buyer would buy a CX9 over a CX8 as the roads are so small

66HFM

77 posts

6 months

Tuesday 20th September
quotequote all
I do much prefer an estate over an SUV although saying that we currently have a Range Rover Evoque, which my wife loves... perhaps its the badge...

I had a great Audi A4 Avant S-Line Special Edition, 220bhp, followed by a couple of Volvo V50 Sport / R-Design, I'm trying to work out why I sold either of them them as they were that ideal size car for me with the estate boot and looks, I do quite fancy next time a Volvo V60 R-Design, which is yet another great looking estate car.

The Mazda 6 ticks a lot of the boxes for my next car although there is something about its looks that put me off, I think it may be the lines between the front door and the front wheel arch.... or perhaps it is just me...

DA75

26 posts

159 months

Tuesday 20th September
quotequote all
mersontheperson said:
I don’t think the CX-9 is any bigger than a Toyota Landcruiser, or the other largest Euro SUV’s. There is no regulation that stops a car like the CX9 being sold, I just think that almost Japanese buyer would buy a CX9 over a CX8 as the roads are so small
I live in Mexico and bought a CX-9 last year, for mainy of the reasons mentioned in the article. Mazda really do think differently. I don't really like SUVs but there is nothing else on sale here for families other than US minivans. It looks great, fairly non aggressive, is seriously relaxing to drive and comes in that fantastic metallic red (had never considered a red car but that Mazda shade is brilliant). All for 30-40% cheaper than the German blingy stuff. Very pleased. A bit too wide on Mexico City streets but not huge compared to full size US stuff.

Racer27

12 posts

95 months

Tuesday 20th September
quotequote all
I can see the appeal of one of these. It may not be a rocket ship, but of you buy one I can see it being a keeper.
I bet that unstressed Na engine will still be going strong in 20 years time with 200k on the clock.

robi4387

23 posts

144 months

Tuesday 20th September
quotequote all
I struggle to get enthusiastic about a large estate car with only 165bhp. Though apparently 70% of new BMW 5-series have about 190bhp the last time I found that enough was 2003. Don't get me wrong I love NA, but 165 isn't enough. All the 2L BMs have turbo torque and that is fine for average driving with an 8-speed auto and computers to manage the MPGs on the way to the works or supermarket carpark.

Mike_Wood

11 posts

67 months

Tuesday 20th September
quotequote all
How about a Focus? I have a 182ps STLine X. 1.5 engine pulls well from just over 1000 rpm and sounds great. Massive in the back with no lip. Swallows 2 bikes and a weeks worth of kit without thinking about it and in no way feels underpowered at gvw. Over 50mpg on a run and have had over 60 when not in a rush

forzaminardi

2,179 posts

168 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
Worth noting that the fundamental design of this car is now quite old. It was pretty decent to begin with, but it's had at least two aesthetic facelifts, and each time also had an overhaul of the engines, suspension and on-board tech to keep it looking and feeling contemporary. Presumably it's still on sale because while they might not sell many, each one is pure profit by now.

nomank

213 posts

176 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
Roger Irrelevant said:
Matt_T said:
I've driven a few Hondas with the 2.0 petrol (K20 series) and they just don't suit big cars, much more a home in hatchbacks. In big cars you have to rev them and the real-world mpg suffers.
Agreed - I had an Accord Tourer auto with the 2.0 150bhp petrol - not sure if it would have been the K20 but it was a 2003 model if that helps. There was a lot to like about it (really comfy and practical), but the engine just didn't suit it at all. As soon as you encountered a hill (I live in a hilly area), or gave the throttle a moderate prod, it would change down at least two gears and scream its head off. Some PH heroes will say they like that sort of thing but really, if you're just doing day-to-day stuff, it's bloody tiresome. I ended up changing up gears manually a lot, so lost the benefit of an auto, got ste mpg and ste performance!
Kind of see where you're coming from. I have the last of the line Accord Tourers (2.0 petrol ES GT auto) from 2009 and would certainly class it's performance as adequate for 99% of my driving.

I had a similar vintage Toyota Avensis estate (2.0 petrol auto as well) before this and the largest issue it had (apart from folk thinking their taxi had turned up wherever I went) was the 4 speed auto box. The Honda has a 5 speed one but both could have done with more gears.

The choice on offer in estates is extremely limited. Have done the SUV thing and I think estates/tourers are the way forward for me but trying to find something in my budget (5-10k) that is petrol, auto and reliable is nigh on impossible (but i'll be quizzing ZX10RN when i'm ready smile so may end up going down the smokers barge route (think Honda Legend/Lexus LS)...

Simon_GH

109 posts

61 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
Mike_Wood said:
How about a Focus? I have a 182ps STLine X. 1.5 engine pulls well from just over 1000 rpm and sounds great. Massive in the back with no lip. Swallows 2 bikes and a weeks worth of kit without thinking about it and in no way feels underpowered at gvw. Over 50mpg on a run and have had over 60 when not in a rush
That's exactly the car I bought after some serious thought about a soul red Mazda 6 - didn't want a diesel and couldn't find a suitable petrol version.

cerb4.5lee

23,920 posts

161 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
robi4387 said:
I struggle to get enthusiastic about a large estate car with only 165bhp. Though apparently 70% of new BMW 5-series have about 190bhp the last time I found that enough was 2003. Don't get me wrong I love NA, but 165 isn't enough. All the 2L BMs have turbo torque and that is fine for average driving with an 8-speed auto and computers to manage the MPGs on the way to the works or supermarket carpark.
I scored a massive own goal a few years ago when I went for a 2009 E61 520d Touring with a manual gearbox. That thing weighed 1700kg...but it only had 177bhp. It wasn't very punchy when it was empty...nevermind when it had us all in it. You live and learn I reckon.

I really liked the car overall though, but I just chose the wrong engine/gearbox for it sadly.