RE: Caterham launches new Super Seven 600 and 2000

RE: Caterham launches new Super Seven 600 and 2000

Author
Discussion

bennytheball

69 posts

8 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
FA57REN said:
What would a Lotus Seven kit cost today, adjusted solely for inflation?

I think you got that 1957 price from a recent Autocar article? The 1957 kit was for a car with a 40bhp Ford Prefect engine (which I suspect wasn't supplied), a three speed gearbox and a 0-60 of over 17 seconds.

I know that performance expectations are rather different now but it's not really comparing like with like.

E38

721 posts

194 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
FA57REN said:
What would a Lotus Seven kit cost today, adjusted solely for inflation?

Wow. I probably would have already had two, and half of my extended family would have had one. Imagine the culture that would form where this was the cheapest car available.

I wonder if their financial advisors have told them they will earn the same profit at £30-40k than selling 70% more cars at £15k (numbers for illustration only).

I get the engines are more complicated these days but they are still crate engines.

Chubbyross

3,764 posts

66 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
Having just jumped ship from a 911 Turbo to a 420R I can honestly say I’ve never driven a car that excites me as much as a Caterham. Are they expensive? Yes, in comparison to a bog-standard hatchback. But in comparison to many supercars out there that I suspect wouldn’t bring the senses alive like one of these I’d say they are fabulous value for money. If you’ve never driven one I recommend hiring one for a weekend and giving it a go. You’ll be hooked.

simonrockman

6,625 posts

236 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
That build cost is pretty good. Dowsets charge about £20k to build a Tipo 184 from their kit.

aestivator

117 posts

11 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
Similarly if you fast-forward the price of a 1945 civilian Willys Jeep to 2022 dollars, you end up significantly below the price of a new Wrangler. But lots of things are different about the 1940s/1950s compared to now, to the point where you aren't really comparing like with like.

As always, if you don't like the price, don't pay it - I suspect Caterham will be fending people off with the stty stick...

humphra

397 posts

73 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
rewild said:
big_rob_sydney said:
Ridiculous price for a very simplistic vehicle. Look at the cheapest new cars on sale in the UK according to google:

Citroen Ami list price from £7,695
Kia Picanto list price from £11,810
MG 3 list price from £12,995
Hyundai i10 list price from £13,430
Dacia Sandero list price from £13,595
Fiat Panda list price from £13,665


These cars are obviously not competitors in terms of what they offer. However, if you look at the manufacturing and materials cost, these cars all have full canopies, air con, and integrated systems like in car entertainment, and so on. The Caterham simply has less of everything, so it should actually cost less in materials cost, and given it is a simplistic car to build, should be cheap. When you compare its minimal list of features to a fully featured car, that fact it costs so much more is just ridiculous.
How much would a Fiat Panda cost if each one was hand-built instead of churned out in vast numbers on a robotised production line?

Maybe somebody should write to Fiat and point out that they should be charging more than Caterham, and they're missing a trick.
I can see Rob's point, as the prices aren't for a built car - they're for the kits to self-assemble. I don't know if Caterham are taking a more expensive route of manufacturing parts themselves, but I'd be surprised if they are - possibly the body panels but even then they'd have tooling to be machine-made to ensure consistency - i can't imagine they've got people hand-beating panels into shape.
But then irrespective off what i think, there's a market price for everything and if they can sell at these prices, then that's its price! Got to love how the marketing mix shows up in reality.....

pycraft

424 posts

165 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
the original article said:
Both models are on sale now, ahead of Caterham celebrating 50 years of business in 2023. Wonder what colour they’ll come up with for that anniversary…
Fixed.

napoleondynamite

70 posts

111 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
value for money/cost chat is odd, and the post comparing the unit cost to a Kia Picanto smells a bit baity to me.

Manufacturers like Catherham need to charge what the market is prepared to pay. Future development work is crippling expensive, and you're not going to fund that by making £2,000 a car on 1,000 cars a yes. Maybe if your Fiat and sell 500,000 then yes.

Personally I'd want something a lot more substantial for my 40 grand but that's just personal preference, and it would inevitably be something a lot more mass market and less interesting than Catherham. So you can't compare like with like. Companies like this are so vulnerable to recession, legislation change etc so make hay whilst the sun shines I say - good luck to them.

Water Fairy

4,261 posts

136 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
big_rob_sydney said:
Ridiculous price for a very simplistic vehicle. Look at the cheapest new cars on sale in the UK according to google:

Citroen Ami list price from £7,695
Kia Picanto list price from £11,810
MG 3 list price from £12,995
Hyundai i10 list price from £13,430
Dacia Sandero list price from £13,595
Fiat Panda list price from £13,665


These cars are obviously not competitors in terms of what they offer. However, if you look at the manufacturing and materials cost, these cars all have full canopies, air con, and integrated systems like in car entertainment, and so on. The Caterham simply has less of everything, so it should actually cost less in materials cost, and given it is a simplistic car to build, should be cheap. When you compare its minimal list of features to a fully featured car, that fact it costs so much more is just ridiculous.
Yes but they also do not have the luxury of mass production ( 'stack 'em high, sell 'em cheap' ).

Small company that hand builds cars/kits.

I'm not saying that accounts for all the cost difference but it will certainly take up some of the 'slack'.



ghibbett

1,790 posts

166 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
Let me put 'cost' into perspective.

I am on my second Caterham.

My first, I bought at 18 months old and with 2.5k miles, ran it for 4 years and did 6k miles.
So 1.5 years -> 5.5 years old. And trebled the mileage.
I sold it in a rush, to a dealer, and in the middle of winter and lost £4k (which massively pained me).

My second, which I've had for 2.5 years now, is currently worth £4k more than I paid for it.

So over 2 cars, 6.5 years of ownership and just under 10k hilarious and enjoyable miles, it's cost me nothing*.

How can that ever compare to a Fiat Panda or Kia Picanto??????




  • of course, in terms of upgrades, trackdays etc, it's actually cost me rather a lot!

Sandpit Steve

6,852 posts

55 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
Those look rather lovely, buy one while we still can!

Now, a Caterham 600 or a three-wheel Morgan, for that summer road trip?

Luther Blissett

384 posts

113 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
14 inch wheels look odd on these, is there a reason why they stopped using 13s?

boombang

356 posts

155 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
Doesn't add anything much to the thread but these are nothing like my cup of tea. Modern era Caterhams are clean and unfussy, I really struggle with swept wings and chrome - and the colours don't flatter the car either.

g7jhp

6,827 posts

219 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
Fabulous cars, I was thinking about getting another one.

Retro cars look good, but the aero wings over the wheels are better dynamically as you don't get the lift.

As they've been built for years there are plenty of cars with flared wings around so no reason not to buy second hand if you want a more affordable route into one.

There is no car that is as fun and gives as pure a driving experience as a 7.

As was said above go and get a test drive or hire one for the day to live the experience. You won't be disappointed.

redroadster

1,524 posts

213 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
Proves less is more and some just won't get it, folk brought up with dsg type gearboxes and ever extra making cars bloat in weight and size this car is there worst nightmare.

biggbn

15,116 posts

201 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
Glenn63 said:
big_rob_sydney said:
Ridiculous price for a very simplistic vehicle. Look at the cheapest new cars on sale in the UK according to google:

Citroen Ami list price from £7,695
Kia Picanto list price from £11,810
MG 3 list price from £12,995
Hyundai i10 list price from £13,430
Dacia Sandero list price from £13,595
Fiat Panda list price from £13,665


These cars are obviously not competitors in terms of what they offer. However, if you look at the manufacturing and materials cost, these cars all have full canopies, air con, and integrated systems like in car entertainment, and so on. The Caterham simply has less of everything, so it should actually cost less in materials cost, and given it is a simplistic car to build, should be cheap. When you compare its minimal list of features to a fully featured car, that fact it costs so much more is just ridiculous.
But those are cars for people who have zero interest in driving/given up on life. You buy a caterham for the thrill and love of driving not Bluetooth connectivity.
Bit of a blinkered view isn't it?

Frimley111R

13,261 posts

215 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
I know people say there's not much to them for the money but check out and Ariel Atom, it looks like a frame with 4 wheels, an engine and nothing else. A Caterham looks like a proper car after that

rjfp1962

6,359 posts

54 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
Sandpit Steve said:
Those look rather lovely, buy one while we still can!

Now, a Caterham 600 or a three-wheel Morgan, for that summer road trip?
Caterham 600 every time for me... I don't get the whole three-wheel Morgan thing..! confused

Tobermory

559 posts

10 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
Much as I love Caterham's, having built one and run it as an only car for 20,000 miles and bought another one more recently (now gone) I struggle to see the value at those prices. Clearly there is a market though and good luck to them, they must suffer from massive (in)economies of (small) scale.

For the price of one of those you could buy a used Roadsport as well as an Elise/ VX220 and have two bites of the light weight cherry.

As a road car to enjoy on s sunny day though there's not much to beat them. I wouldn't be brave enough to go on track in such an insubstantial thing mind you!

eg

https://www.gpsevens.co.uk/portfolio-item/caterham...

plus

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13419807

for the price of the four cylinder model.

Robert Green

39 posts

146 months

Wednesday 21st September
quotequote all
One could say that about most new cars. Second hand they are cheaper. New 911 or a 997 and Aston Martin V8 Vantage….