RE: Ford Escort 1600 GT (Mk1) | Spotted

RE: Ford Escort 1600 GT (Mk1) | Spotted

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Discussion

Lotobear

4,484 posts

112 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
Based upon what a lot of old Ford stuff is fetching these days I don't actually find that asking price too silly, and a Mk1 Escort is a very nice thing.

I've a spare dry sumped Lotus TC and close ratio 3 rail box that would work a treat in that!


andymadmak

13,605 posts

254 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
Glosphil said:
Mk1 Escort introduced with front disc brakes?
My 1968 Escort 1100L certainly had drum brakes all round.

My first car with disc brakes (but no servo) was an H reg Avenger 1500GL.
My 1975 Escort Mk2 1100L 3 door had drum brakes all round - well, I say "all round' but in reality you were lucky if all 4 wheels shared the braking effort.
Vista orange was the colour, at least until the rust set in. And boy oh boy did it rust! I remember being on the M5 when the drivers door mirror, together with a sizeable chunk of drivers door panel simply broke off. hehe

Draxindustries1

1,320 posts

7 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
Like all these old Ford's from the 60's> these are very basic cars, about as basic as it gets and imho the asking price for this and very many others is borderline insane compared to other much more desirable stuff for the same money. I have a MK2 Cortina 1500GT, 33k miles, original paint and Colin Chapmans 63 Lotus Cortina, again all original down to the alloy door skins and boot lid + A frame and alloy diff nose.
Both will never be for sale and been offered stupid money for both but tbh just cannot see the actual 'worth' with the daft offers I've had. The Mk1 Escort no matter the model whether it's a 1.1L or Twin Cam there's so little to them just cannot see the appeal with these..

J4CKO

37,992 posts

184 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
My little brothers mate from over the road, his mum had a MK1, when we went in it we were told not to sit on the drivers side rear seats as "The floor wasnt great"

I sure it was great, when it had existed but now there was just a gaping maw where it used to be ready to swallow your Clarks Trackers or Adidas Sambas, it was big enough to get a small persons foot through and was covered, for safety with not one, but two rubber mats.

My dad bought and sold cars and really knew his way round them, still does and can remember him telling the owner, on seeing the floor that she shouldnt be driving it, its scrap and neither my brother or I were permitted to ride in it from that point forth.

I think folk nowadays either forget or have never experienced how quickly and aggressively cars could rust then, my dad worked "On the Buses" and worked hard to keep our old cars on the road, when he got one it always got a days spent rustproofing, or more likely trying to stem it with bus oil, axle grease and something called Duck Oil, following a nice hot bath using the "Steam Genny" at work and lashings of hot Gunk. I think it worked in the main but can remember the rot coming into the Capri he had, so a Shell Oils F1 sticker was placed over the worst hole in the wing, worked until someone poked it.

Rust was so demoralizing, you would be giving your car a good valet and then you spot the dreaded bubbles, and a bit like checking if something is dog muck when you are 99 percent certain it is, you still, inexplicably give it a sniff to be 100 percent, you just cant help poking that rust bubble. The bubble sheds a little tear down the panel and then your finger goes into the crunchiness. Nowadays, much more info and availability of panels, welding gear etc than back then when it was filler, cereal packets, chicken wire and a can of "Holts Dupli colour" from your local car shop, and it would look sort of better for about a week, maybe a month. Cars, apart from a few Mazdas and Fords generally dont do that, they can still have wheel arch edges at 20 years old, unheard of then, I remember having an Audi 100 in the ealy nineties and was amazed at the witchcraft that meant it hadnt rusted, at all.

We had a Fiat 132 Twin cam that had self preserved to an extent due to a prodigious oil leak, could see how it had been left and the rust started largely where the slurge of oil blown back stopped.

And people on the Ford groups, upon seeing an Escort like this will say "Now thats a proper car, will still be round in another 50 years not like the plastic st today", which is utter, utter bks, its only still around due to an extensive rebuild, being locked in a dry garage or a re shell not due to the build standards of the day, which were comical, cars starting to rust on the forecourt in some cases. Sometimes its ok to just like something, dont have to justify it or try and prove its validity by rubbishing something else, my Ford will be eight years old next year, was under it the other day sorting an exhaust rattle and its just a bit dirty, no rust whatsoever and its lived its whole life outside, 17 year old Merc, the same, wipe the road crud off, just solid metal and components still with their factory coating on.


So, if you stuck a load of these away in 1985, chances are, unless the building was very well built, dehumidified and very secure they would have dissapeared either to rot or theft by now, I reckon its cheaper to just buy one now, they are expensive but not as expensive as rebuilding one that got wet once, like Gremlins (Film creature, not the AMC Car) old Fords in that respect.

What The Deuces

1,184 posts

8 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
If that's been re-shelled into the correct Type-49 shell then it's worth the dosh.

wpa1975

4,736 posts

98 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
What The Deuces said:
If that's been re-shelled into the correct Type-49 shell then it's worth the dosh.
Nope, no chance read the other posts, seems to a be a Mexico chassis plate but it is not really clear as to what it is.

Long bargepole required I think.

What The Deuces

1,184 posts

8 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
wpa1975 said:
Nope, no chance read the other posts, seems to a be a Mexico chassis plate but it is not really clear as to what it is.

Long bargepole required I think.
Nobody has identified it's not a type-49 afaik?

cerb4.5lee

24,942 posts

164 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
My little brothers mate from over the road, his mum had a MK1, when we went in it we were told not to sit on the drivers side rear seats as "The floor wasnt great"

I sure it was great, when it had existed but now there was just a gaping maw where it used to be ready to swallow your Clarks Trackers or Adidas Sambas, it was big enough to get a small persons foot through and was covered, for safety with not one, but two rubber mats.

My dad bought and sold cars and really knew his way round them, still does and can remember him telling the owner, on seeing the floor that she shouldnt be driving it, its scrap and neither my brother or I were permitted to ride in it from that point forth.

I think folk nowadays either forget or have never experienced how quickly and aggressively cars could rust then, my dad worked "On the Buses" and worked hard to keep our old cars on the road, when he got one it always got a days spent rustproofing, or more likely trying to stem it with bus oil, axle grease and something called Duck Oil, following a nice hot bath using the "Steam Genny" at work and lashings of hot Gunk. I think it worked in the main but can remember the rot coming into the Capri he had, so a Shell Oils F1 sticker was placed over the worst hole in the wing, worked until someone poked it.

Rust was so demoralizing, you would be giving your car a good valet and then you spot the dreaded bubbles, and a bit like checking if something is dog muck when you are 99 percent certain it is, you still, inexplicably give it a sniff to be 100 percent, you just cant help poking that rust bubble. The bubble sheds a little tear down the panel and then your finger goes into the crunchiness. Nowadays, much more info and availability of panels, welding gear etc than back then when it was filler, cereal packets, chicken wire and a can of "Holts Dupli colour" from your local car shop, and it would look sort of better for about a week, maybe a month. Cars, apart from a few Mazdas and Fords generally dont do that, they can still have wheel arch edges at 20 years old, unheard of then, I remember having an Audi 100 in the ealy nineties and was amazed at the witchcraft that meant it hadnt rusted, at all.

We had a Fiat 132 Twin cam that had self preserved to an extent due to a prodigious oil leak, could see how it had been left and the rust started largely where the slurge of oil blown back stopped.

And people on the Ford groups, upon seeing an Escort like this will say "Now thats a proper car, will still be round in another 50 years not like the plastic st today", which is utter, utter bks, its only still around due to an extensive rebuild, being locked in a dry garage or a re shell not due to the build standards of the day, which were comical, cars starting to rust on the forecourt in some cases. Sometimes its ok to just like something, dont have to justify it or try and prove its validity by rubbishing something else, my Ford will be eight years old next year, was under it the other day sorting an exhaust rattle and its just a bit dirty, no rust whatsoever and its lived its whole life outside, 17 year old Merc, the same, wipe the road crud off, just solid metal and components still with their factory coating on.


So, if you stuck a load of these away in 1985, chances are, unless the building was very well built, dehumidified and very secure they would have dissapeared either to rot or theft by now, I reckon its cheaper to just buy one now, they are expensive but not as expensive as rebuilding one that got wet once, like Gremlins (Film creature, not the AMC Car) old Fords in that respect.
I remember rust being the enemy with Ford's in the 80's too. My Dad's 1979 Mustang rusted all the way down the windscreen pillars, and he was gutted because he loved the thing.

Plus my Mum had a string of Ford's(Sierra/Escort/Capri) and they all rusted badly. Her 1987 D plate Escort was especially bad for rust from what I remember as well.

I also had quite a few cars from the 80's that rusted like hell when I had them in the early 90's. I don't miss those days of chasing rust around a car that is for sure.

OldSkoolRS

5,192 posts

163 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
cerb4.5lee said:
I remember rust being the enemy with Ford's in the 80's too. My Dad's 1979 Mustang rusted all the way down the windscreen pillars, and he was gutted because he loved the thing.

Plus my Mum had a string of Ford's(Sierra/Escort/Capri) and they all rusted badly. Her 1987 D plate Escort was especially bad for rust from what I remember as well.

I also had quite a few cars from the 80's that rusted like hell when I had them in the early 90's. I don't miss those days of chasing rust around a car that is for sure.
It's all coming back to me now...a 1986 Black XR3i that I must have repainted the rear arches on an almost weekly basis to try to stem the rust. That 'tear of water' comment rang a bell with me too. Just can't help but prod the blister. biggrin Eventually I cut the arches off and welded new ones on and it took me ages getting it all smooth and replacing other bits nearby that had also gone rotten. I think it was only about 5-6 years old too at the time.

My Mum had a white Mk4 XR3i that rusted for fun, even though it lived in a dry garage and wasn't even used much as she'd retired by then.

These days I almost take it for granted that a car will be pretty solid, even at 10+ years old: My son's 2012 Fiesta is really like a new car bar a few stone chips and polishes up well. I've been all over it doing jobs to make sure it's roadworthy and safe for him and it's really clean even underneath. Similar for my own shed, a 2009 Mk2 Ka (granted our eldest's first car was a Mk1 Ka and that died due to rust).

I wonder if it's the quality of the metal, or some coatings/paint/primers they use these days? It's not just the design of avoiding rust traps since some stone chips don't seem to turn to rust like they used to either.

wpa1975

4,736 posts

98 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
What The Deuces said:
wpa1975 said:
Nope, no chance read the other posts, seems to a be a Mexico chassis plate but it is not really clear as to what it is.

Long bargepole required I think.
Nobody has identified it's not a type-49 afaik?
jon66 said:
Took me a while to register that this was the same car as was sold a couple of weeks ago on Car & Classic.

Definitely one that would require some proper checking out before parting with any hard cash as the original car that the body plates relate to was (as far as I'm aware) a genuine Sunset Red Mexico and was recorded as such with the Ford AVO Owners Club.

However....what is here now is most definitely not that particular car (even if it does contain some of the mechanicals from the Mexico) and the body/chassis plates don't appear to be the originals either. All this talk of 1600GT's/Australian Market/Re-shell etc just muddies the water even further as to exactly what the origins are of it as presented now.

Would still make someone a nice enough Mk1 Escort to go and have some fun with...at a certain price-point.
It is on the V5 as Mexico II which does not exist, £27k is a lot of money for something that is not what it should be





Edited by wpa1975 on Wednesday 23 November 13:52

jon66

278 posts

128 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
What The Deuces said:
wpa1975 said:
Nope, no chance read the other posts, seems to a be a Mexico chassis plate but it is not really clear as to what it is.

Long bargepole required I think.
Nobody has identified it's not a type-49 afaik?
I'd stick my neck out and say that it's probably not an original Type 49 shell. It has some of the elements that I'd expect to see but many of them can easily be retro-fitted nowadays.
Bits that definitely look odd are that whilst it has the inclined rear shock absorbers and bulkhead mounted dual clutch/brake fluid reservoir that I would expect to see on a 71 car it also has the battery up front and an in-line brake servo (also with reservoir - so not sure what is happening with the larger chamber on the bulkhead mounted one ?) which would only be correct for late 72 onwards.
It's also worth noting that it doesn't have a big-wing sump.

Seems odd to me that someone has potentially had a substantially complete Mexico yet has built it up (in a different shell) effectively as something that doesn't quite fit in the Ford range from that period. The "stick-on" vinyl wood wasn't used in the AVO cars so whilst the dished 140 mph speedo/8000 RPM rev counter are period correct, the fascia that they are built into isn't. A lot of questions would need to be answered and any buyer would have to make sure they know exactly what it is that they are buying.

As I said before, if someone wants a nice, useable, fun Mk1 Escort then (at the right price) this would tick most of the boxes. What it isn't though is a collector car that would command a premium price going forwards.


Edited by jon66 on Wednesday 23 November 14:21

Charlie_1

676 posts

76 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
I had a 1972 1300GT back in the day 7 years old at the time I acquired it and what I remember most was rust but it was very pretty

cooperd5

66 posts

156 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
sideways man said:
Even with just 86 bhp they’re nippy enough, and as the rear end has very limited traction it’s plenty of fun. My dad put a 1.6 gt motor in ours; with its low 1.1 diff it did go well but maxed out at 90 mph… apparently biggrin:
I had a 70/H 1600GT Capri that also did exactly 90 at 6000 revs... paid £200 for it in 1984... 🙂

Rumblestripe

2,296 posts

146 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
These rusted for fun back in the day. Rust proofing was not something that happened in Dagenham (or to be fair, ANY contemporary plant) you should consider that your alternatives in say 1970/1 were BMC 1100/1300, Moggy 1000, Morris Marina, Hillman Avenger, Vauxhall Viva HB and some "foreign stuff" (European cars were mostly viewed with suspicion (expensive to fix), Japanese stuff was viewed with derision (funny little things that rusted even faster)). There really wasn't much that was better or even comparable for the money. And this didn't really change throughout the lifetime of the mk1 and only towards the end of the mk2.

In terms of the driving experience, they were fun to drive in that you could get the tail out even in the dry with a 1100 lump in heavily provoked! The brakes were OK, the seats were adequate at best, in hot weather you could not wear shorts to drive. In the winter you might have a sandbag in the boot to help your traction, hills in snow were possible only with momentum. It probably didn't have a heated rear screen (many fitted aftermarket stick on plaggy ones). My contemporary in-car-entertainment was an aftermarket cassette player to augment the factory AM/FM radio (Cortina). the heater took an age to start blowing hot air. Etc. etc.

In summary great to polish and take to a classic car meet these days but you wouldn't want one as your sole means to get home of a cold January evening...

Wacky Racer

36,254 posts

231 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
I had a Jade green 1100L Mk1 from new WTD 611H, pitted with a Peco big bore silencer, after market rev counter, and wooden steering wheel driving

Lovely car, went all round the country in it, never let me down once.

romac

445 posts

130 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
Ah, a Mk 1 Escort. I learnt to drive and passed my test in one. (Very popular with driving schools, and I picked my driving school because they had Escorts.) I don't know how I never owned one - I nearly did! But I think that, by the time I could afford a decent s/h one, I'd fallen out of love with Ford for various reasons. Still remember being jealous of a friend who had a Mexico.
Funny thing about the Mk1 Escort though... Despite what the article implies, this was not the first Ford Escort. That would have been the Ford Escort 100E - an estate version of the Anglia 100E - produced 1955-1961.

Jaguar steve

8,787 posts

194 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
Back in the day I had a 1300E in Miami Blue - same colour as the featured car.

I swapped the standard GT engine for a Holbay 1600 with a Piper 285 cam in it and lowered and stiffened the suspension and on skinny 165 tyres it was a slidey, oversteery hoot to drive. I'm occasionally still mildly surprised I didn't kill myself in it because with a higher ratio 'diff and the Holbay engine and a long enough straight I could wind the 110MPH speedo right off the clock at 7k RPM and at those speeds a Mk1 gets so much front end lift some poo is absolutely guaranteed to come out every time you hit any sort of bump in the road.

Sold it still in pretty good nick for £800 to raise cash for a house deposit in the early '80s. Happy days. smile

James6112

1,403 posts

12 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
I used to have similar & equally rubbish Fords in the early 80s, Escorts/Cortina’s/Capris etc etc
They were rust buckets then & hopelessly unreliable.
I’m amazed any survived!

A good museum piece.

But no place on todays roads. Any car made in the last 20 years will be superior in every respect.

J4CKO

37,992 posts

184 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
Tuning was amusing back then, nowadays we have it so easy.

Whack a map on, induction kit, exhaust, intercooler etc, and hey presto in some cases 100 bhp extra or more, car still feels more or less the same.

I was offered, for £200 or so back in 1989 a tuned engine for my Capri, 1700 cc overbore, twin carbs, lumpy cam, lighter flywheel etc, about 120 bhp he said.

Tried it in the Escort it was in, and due to make way for a 2.1 litre Pinto and sure, it was fairly quick but by god it was hard work, didnt want to idle, less power low down and it must have been doing like 18 to the gallon, I politely declined.

Jaguar steve

8,787 posts

194 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
Tuning was amusing back then, nowadays we have it so easy.

Whack a map on, induction kit, exhaust, intercooler etc, and hey presto in some cases 100 bhp extra or more, car still feels more or less the same.

I was offered, for £200 or so back in 1989 a tuned engine for my Capri, 1700 cc overbore, twin carbs, lumpy cam, lighter flywheel etc, about 120 bhp he said.

Tried it in the Escort it was in, and due to make way for a 2.1 litre Pinto and sure, it was fairly quick but by god it was hard work, didnt want to idle, less power low down and it must have been doing like 18 to the gallon, I politely declined.
I applied the some is good so more must be better theory when I spec'd my Holbay engine.

The result was a flywheel so light the idle speed had to be set at 1k RPM and the cam was so lumpy the engine would bog down if you floored it at low revs.The uprated clutch worked like an on off switch and Mrs JS flatly refused to drive it again after she stalled it and then flooded it trying to start it again on a busy roundabout in the middle of the morning rush hour. biggrin