RE: Ford Escort 1600 GT (Mk1) | Spotted

RE: Ford Escort 1600 GT (Mk1) | Spotted

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OldSkoolRS

5,192 posts

163 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
Jaguar steve said:
J4CKO said:
Tuning was amusing back then, nowadays we have it so easy.

Whack a map on, induction kit, exhaust, intercooler etc, and hey presto in some cases 100 bhp extra or more, car still feels more or less the same.

I was offered, for £200 or so back in 1989 a tuned engine for my Capri, 1700 cc overbore, twin carbs, lumpy cam, lighter flywheel etc, about 120 bhp he said.

Tried it in the Escort it was in, and due to make way for a 2.1 litre Pinto and sure, it was fairly quick but by god it was hard work, didnt want to idle, less power low down and it must have been doing like 18 to the gallon, I politely declined.
I applied the some is good so more must be better theory when I spec'd my Holbay engine.

The result was a flywheel so light the idle speed had to be set at 1k RPM and the cam was so lumpy the engine would bog down if you floored it at low revs.The uprated clutch worked like an on off switch and Mrs JS flatly refused to drive it again after she stalled it and then flooded it trying to start it again on a busy roundabout in the middle of the morning rush hour. biggrin
I did think about whether to put the 'Group 1' kit on my RS2000 with Twin 40s (or 45s?), lumpy cam and gas flowed head. I think it would take it up from 110 to about 145PS, but make it a lot less pleasant to drive if not pressing on. Academic really until I actually get on with doing some work on the rest of it first... paperbag

Jaguar steve

8,787 posts

194 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
OldSkoolRS said:
I did think about whether to put the 'Group 1' kit on my RS2000 with Twin 40s (or 45s?), lumpy cam and gas flowed head. I think it would take it up from 110 to about 145PS, but make it a lot less pleasant to drive if not pressing on. Academic really until I actually get on with doing some work on the rest of it first... paperbag
Tuning old Ford engines for mid range torque rather than maximum top end power has some virtue.

I just wish somebody had told me that before I spunked several month's wages on doing the latter. And if I'd done that I wouldn't have had the indignity of being towed back to the garage by Mrs JS's Allegro after the poxy thing had borked itself again either. smile

cerb4.5lee

24,943 posts

164 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
Some great stories on this thread for sure! thumbup

Draxindustries1

1,320 posts

7 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
wpa1975 said:
What The Deuces said:
If that's been re-shelled into the correct Type-49 shell then it's worth the dosh.
Nope, no chance read the other posts, seems to a be a Mexico chassis plate but it is not really clear as to what it is.

Long bargepole required I think.
I originally posted (imo) that it was unlikely to have been reshelled with a type 49 but having now seen the under bonnet pictures it is a type 49 as can be identified by the front strut strengthening plates. The same type of strengthening plates were fitted to the Mexico, Twin Cam, RS models.

Draxindustries1

1,320 posts

7 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
Jaguar steve said:
OldSkoolRS said:
I did think about whether to put the 'Group 1' kit on my RS2000 with Twin 40s (or 45s?), lumpy cam and gas flowed head. I think it would take it up from 110 to about 145PS, but make it a lot less pleasant to drive if not pressing on. Academic really until I actually get on with doing some work on the rest of it first... paperbag
Tuning old Ford engines for mid range torque rather than maximum top end power has some virtue.

I just wish somebody had told me that before I spunked several month's wages on doing the latter. And if I'd done that I wouldn't have had the indignity of being towed back to the garage by Mrs JS's Allegro after the poxy thing had borked itself again either. smile
My Mk2 1500GT Cortina st itself after not strengthening the bottom end properly.
It now has a steel crank, H section steel rods, Accralite 10:1 pistons, Vulcan big valve head lightened, balanced and blueprinted. Carbs are twin 45 side draught Dellortos, Lucas distributor A6 full race cam. 180hp @ 8000rpm.

wpa1975

4,737 posts

98 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
Draxindustries1 said:
wpa1975 said:
What The Deuces said:
If that's been re-shelled into the correct Type-49 shell then it's worth the dosh.
Nope, no chance read the other posts, seems to a be a Mexico chassis plate but it is not really clear as to what it is.

Long bargepole required I think.
I originally posted (imo) that it was unlikely to have been reshelled with a type 49 but having now seen the under bonnet pictures it is a type 49 as can be identified by the front strut strengthening plates. The same type of strengthening plates were fitted to the Mexico, Twin Cam, RS models.
That might be the case but the question remains as to why they did not restore it to the correct spec.

Logbook is also odd, Mexico II, nothing really adds up.

TheMachMan

997 posts

206 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
I had a MK 1 Mexico back in the day and they used to have 1600GT badges on the wings. The only Mexico badge being on the boot lid.


Jaguar steve

8,787 posts

194 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
Draxindustries1 said:
My Mk2 1500GT Cortina st itself after not strengthening the bottom end properly.
It now has a steel crank, H section steel rods, Accralite 10:1 pistons, Vulcan big valve head lightened, balanced and blueprinted. Carbs are twin 45 side draught Dellortos, Lucas distributor A6 full race cam. 180hp @ 8000rpm.
Nice.

Feel free to let me have a go anytime... thumbup

What The Deuces

1,184 posts

8 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
wpa1975 said:
What The Deuces said:
If that's been re-shelled into the correct Type-49 shell then it's worth the dosh.
Nope, no chance read the other posts, seems to a be a Mexico chassis plate but it is not really clear as to what it is.

Long bargepole required I think.
Lol.

sideways man

1,148 posts

121 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
Time for a gratuitous photo…
I built this with a cosworth yb turbo. Tuned to 330 bhp, it was quite quick….Best fun I’ve had with my clothes on, although It did try to kill me quite frequently laugh

Edited by sideways man on Wednesday 23 November 19:30

s m

22,469 posts

187 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
OldSkoolRS said:
Jaguar steve said:
J4CKO said:
Tuning was amusing back then, nowadays we have it so easy.

Whack a map on, induction kit, exhaust, intercooler etc, and hey presto in some cases 100 bhp extra or more, car still feels more or less the same.

I was offered, for £200 or so back in 1989 a tuned engine for my Capri, 1700 cc overbore, twin carbs, lumpy cam, lighter flywheel etc, about 120 bhp he said.

Tried it in the Escort it was in, and due to make way for a 2.1 litre Pinto and sure, it was fairly quick but by god it was hard work, didnt want to idle, less power low down and it must have been doing like 18 to the gallon, I politely declined.
I applied the some is good so more must be better theory when I spec'd my Holbay engine.

The result was a flywheel so light the idle speed had to be set at 1k RPM and the cam was so lumpy the engine would bog down if you floored it at low revs.The uprated clutch worked like an on off switch and Mrs JS flatly refused to drive it again after she stalled it and then flooded it trying to start it again on a busy roundabout in the middle of the morning rush hour. biggrin
I did think about whether to put the 'Group 1' kit on my RS2000 with Twin 40s (or 45s?), lumpy cam and gas flowed head. I think it would take it up from 110 to about 145PS, but make it a lot less pleasant to drive if not pressing on. Academic really until I actually get on with doing some work on the rest of it first... paperbag
I had the Ford RS dealer stuff ( Series X ) on mine ( Mk2 RS2000 ) which was the twin 44IDFs and the big air filter, modded head and cam. Also had it bumped up to 2.1 litres

Was a really nice road car with the quick rack and Bilsteins plus LSD - did the RS days at Combe and it had the legs on a new 2.8 Capri round there . Did relief work for my job driving all over Wales which paid for the mods with the mileage allowance

Mr Tidy

18,752 posts

111 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
s m said:
OldSkoolRS said:
Jaguar steve said:
J4CKO said:
Tuning was amusing back then, nowadays we have it so easy.

Whack a map on, induction kit, exhaust, intercooler etc, and hey presto in some cases 100 bhp extra or more, car still feels more or less the same.

I was offered, for £200 or so back in 1989 a tuned engine for my Capri, 1700 cc overbore, twin carbs, lumpy cam, lighter flywheel etc, about 120 bhp he said.

Tried it in the Escort it was in, and due to make way for a 2.1 litre Pinto and sure, it was fairly quick but by god it was hard work, didnt want to idle, less power low down and it must have been doing like 18 to the gallon, I politely declined.
I applied the some is good so more must be better theory when I spec'd my Holbay engine.

The result was a flywheel so light the idle speed had to be set at 1k RPM and the cam was so lumpy the engine would bog down if you floored it at low revs.The uprated clutch worked like an on off switch and Mrs JS flatly refused to drive it again after she stalled it and then flooded it trying to start it again on a busy roundabout in the middle of the morning rush hour. biggrin
I did think about whether to put the 'Group 1' kit on my RS2000 with Twin 40s (or 45s?), lumpy cam and gas flowed head. I think it would take it up from 110 to about 145PS, but make it a lot less pleasant to drive if not pressing on. Academic really until I actually get on with doing some work on the rest of it first... paperbag
I had the Ford RS dealer stuff ( Series X ) on mine ( Mk2 RS2000 ) which was the twin 44IDFs and the big air filter, modded head and cam. Also had it bumped up to 2.1 litres

Was a really nice road car with the quick rack and Bilsteins plus LSD - did the RS days at Combe and it had the legs on a new 2.8 Capri round there . Did relief work for my job driving all over Wales which paid for the mods with the mileage allowance
Great reminiscences!

My MK2 RS2000 got blitzed by a 2.8i Capri in 1984 so I sold it and got a Capri 2.8i that felt like a quality product - unlike the agricultural Escort.

Zygot

179 posts

56 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
I had a Mk1 Mexico when I was 18. It was the 2nd car I owned and was about 10/11 years old when I got it and it was less than mint to say the least.
But I loved it. I still think the shape is spot on and far better than the mk2 Escort which was my 1st car.
To this day, it was the only car I made a profit on.
Fantastic memories, but think I would be disappointed to drive one again and find it wasn't as great as I remembered.

s m

22,469 posts

187 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
sideways man said:
Time for a gratuitous photo…
I built this with a cosworth yb turbo. Tuned to 330 bhp, it was quite quick….Best fun I’ve had with my clothes on, although It did try to kill me quite frequently laugh

Edited by sideways man on Wednesday 23 November 19:30
I can only imagine!
That’s fab cool

WayOutWest

395 posts

42 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
My little brothers mate from over the road, his mum had a MK1, when we went in it we were told not to sit on the drivers side rear seats as "The floor wasnt great"

I sure it was great, when it had existed but now there was just a gaping maw where it used to be ready to swallow your Clarks Trackers or Adidas Sambas, it was big enough to get a small persons foot through and was covered, for safety with not one, but two rubber mats.

My dad bought and sold cars and really knew his way round them, still does and can remember him telling the owner, on seeing the floor that she shouldnt be driving it, its scrap and neither my brother or I were permitted to ride in it from that point forth.

I think folk nowadays either forget or have never experienced how quickly and aggressively cars could rust then, my dad worked "On the Buses" and worked hard to keep our old cars on the road, when he got one it always got a days spent rustproofing, or more likely trying to stem it with bus oil, axle grease and something called Duck Oil, following a nice hot bath using the "Steam Genny" at work and lashings of hot Gunk. I think it worked in the main but can remember the rot coming into the Capri he had, so a Shell Oils F1 sticker was placed over the worst hole in the wing, worked until someone poked it.

Rust was so demoralizing, you would be giving your car a good valet and then you spot the dreaded bubbles, and a bit like checking if something is dog muck when you are 99 percent certain it is, you still, inexplicably give it a sniff to be 100 percent, you just cant help poking that rust bubble. The bubble sheds a little tear down the panel and then your finger goes into the crunchiness. Nowadays, much more info and availability of panels, welding gear etc than back then when it was filler, cereal packets, chicken wire and a can of "Holts Dupli colour" from your local car shop, and it would look sort of better for about a week, maybe a month. Cars, apart from a few Mazdas and Fords generally dont do that, they can still have wheel arch edges at 20 years old, unheard of then, I remember having an Audi 100 in the ealy nineties and was amazed at the witchcraft that meant it hadnt rusted, at all.

We had a Fiat 132 Twin cam that had self preserved to an extent due to a prodigious oil leak, could see how it had been left and the rust started largely where the slurge of oil blown back stopped.

And people on the Ford groups, upon seeing an Escort like this will say "Now thats a proper car, will still be round in another 50 years not like the plastic st today", which is utter, utter bks, its only still around due to an extensive rebuild, being locked in a dry garage or a re shell not due to the build standards of the day, which were comical, cars starting to rust on the forecourt in some cases. Sometimes its ok to just like something, dont have to justify it or try and prove its validity by rubbishing something else, my Ford will be eight years old next year, was under it the other day sorting an exhaust rattle and its just a bit dirty, no rust whatsoever and its lived its whole life outside, 17 year old Merc, the same, wipe the road crud off, just solid metal and components still with their factory coating on.


So, if you stuck a load of these away in 1985, chances are, unless the building was very well built, dehumidified and very secure they would have dissapeared either to rot or theft by now, I reckon its cheaper to just buy one now, they are expensive but not as expensive as rebuilding one that got wet once, like Gremlins (Film creature, not the AMC Car) old Fords in that respect.
Great post. I must have owned at least 4 Mk2 Escorts in the late 80s/early 90s, and mesh and filler were holding together at least 3 of them.
Incidentally hot rodding Mk2s is nothing new, even back then I once went to view a beige Mk2 1100 or 1300 2 door that someone had stuck a 1.6 Pinto in (which in the Mk2 would have been equivalent to building your own RS Mexico).
My plan was to finish it off and respray to a lairy RS colour but it was too rotten to buy, and it ran out of petrol on the test drive.

My nicest Mk2 was a completely restored 1600 Sport (with the Kent engine, so same as the Mk1 Mexico), but even that started to bubble up again in places, so persistent was the tin worm. So any good car now is probably on its third or fouth restoration.

At the lowest point I think you could have bagged a slightly scruffy Mk1 Mexico (although such cars were always better looked after than 1.3s) for under £1000 in the late 80s. By the time I was that wealthy I bought a Mk1 XR2 instead. Yet again with a 1.6 Kent engine, only turned 90 degrees...








Black S2K

1,215 posts

233 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
Draxindustries1 said:
Like all these old Ford's from the 60's> these are very basic cars, about as basic as it gets and imho the asking price for this and very many others is borderline insane compared to other much more desirable stuff for the same money. I have a MK2 Cortina 1500GT, 33k miles, original paint and Colin Chapmans 63 Lotus Cortina, again all original down to the alloy door skins and boot lid + A frame and alloy diff nose.
Both will never be for sale and been offered stupid money for both but tbh just cannot see the actual 'worth' with the daft offers I've had. The Mk1 Escort no matter the model whether it's a 1.1L or Twin Cam there's so little to them just cannot see the appeal with these..
Tend to agree.

My Mk1 van had lovely steering & gearchange. It was all handling & zero roadholding, so a lot of harmless fun.

But it really was a lowest-common-denominator in every possible respect.

People like weirdl/interesting old stuff (myself included!) but a Scrote just seems too vanilla - even back then. Unless it's something daft like a 1.3 XL unrestored with 8,000 pensioner miles on it or somesuch.





jon66

278 posts

128 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
TheMachMan said:
I had a MK 1 Mexico back in the day and they used to have 1600GT badges on the wings. The only Mexico badge being on the boot lid.
Typically on the Mk1 Mexico if it had the stripes it would have 1600GT badges on the wings and (sometimes) a Mexico badge on the bootlid. If supplied with no stripes/pin-stripes they usually had Mexico badges all around.

Needless to say...that's not an absolute and many exceptions to the above exist (even accounting for owners that have changed them themselves over the years)

andygo

6,405 posts

239 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
What The Deuces said:
If that's been re-shelled into the correct Type-49 shell then it's worth the dosh.
if it's a genuine typre 49 shell it will have radius arm brackets welded onto the rear floorpan near the back seats

I had loads of Mk1 Escorts, several of which were Mexicos that Iused to rally.

My old man had one of the first 50 pre production Twin Cams from Boreham. Interestingly it didn't have the later type 49 strengthened top mounts which became a problem as he used to compete in the Players No. 6 Autocross Champioship in 1968. He sold it in disgust as the top mounts started to punch up hrough the inner wings.

It cost him £1150 new...

Edited by andygo on Thursday 24th November 13:46

Johnny5hoods

417 posts

103 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
Many mk1 escorts gave up their lives as kit car donor vehicles. Dutton seem to have been the best selling, in the thousands I believe.

I remember reading in one of the kit car magazines, in the early 90s, that if you took an average mk1 escort bodyshell and had it sandblasted, all you'd end up with is a roof and four pillars. Maybe a slight exaggeration (or maybe not!). But, in any case, even in the early 90s, it was a brave man who'd rebuild an escort back to bare metal.

I remember as a lad, in the mid eighties, you'd see lots of boy racers in mk1 escorts screeching around the twisties near my house. There was a real following for them among the youth, a bit like the Nova in the 90s, the Saxo in the 2000s etc. Thing is, they were frequently rusty. Lads had shelled out a lot of hard earned cash on all sorts of bells and whistles to make em look good and sound noisy. But there was just nothing they could do to stop the things rusting all the time.

By the time I started driving in 92, forget it. Only micro mile grandma specials were (mostly) rust free. But you knew, in even 1 year of daily running even they'd be rot boxes.

s m

22,469 posts

187 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
Charlie_1 said:
I had a 1972 1300GT back in the day 7 years old at the time I acquired it and what I remember most was rust but it was very pretty
Friend had a 1300GT too - was in good nick, he’d kept it when he got his RS so he’d have a car when doing engine upgrades.

After my first Mk2 RS was written off by an errant BMW overtaking and hitting me head on, he lent it to me whilst I waited for insurance cheque to come through. It wasn’t rapid like the 1600s/2000s but handled really nicely - had a great razz through the lanes up against another friend’s Alfa 1300 Junior. We both got left behind by the bigger engines cars but it was a fun drive

On the subject of rust we used to use them in all weathers but the first thing we’d do after getting one was get them down the workshop and blast them underneath etc with Waxoyl…… then leave them to drip on the tractor wash pad
They did used to smell for a few days but at least it stopped them rusting too quick. A couple of my friends’ RS2000s had been Ziebarted from new and that was pretty effective








I got a 1.3 78 Mk2 in 86 that was really solid - used by a farmer’s daughter to take hay bales in the boot to her horse a mile or 2 away. Parked in an open barn and her Dad had sprayed everything underneath in old engine oil - crude but effective rust proofing
Put a modded 1600 in it and it was a cheap but fast runaround. Sold it for much more than I paid and it was still going up to about 1990 when it exceeded the the then owner’s skills



None of them had Satnav or Apple play etc but I can just remember them as brilliant fun and cheap and easy to do stuff on
A friend bought a solid Mk2 Rs2000 for weekend fun for about 15k about 6 years back - high days and holidays car and it lives in the garage when the salt is on the roads - but it’s still great fun for a blast at the weekend