RE: Mercedes marks 40 years of the 190

RE: Mercedes marks 40 years of the 190

Author
Discussion

biggbn

16,305 posts

204 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
stickleback123 said:
carinaman said:
CAR Magazine had a lot of praise for the 100 but said the physical size was due to the aerodynamics which were also responsible for the poor ventilation.

ARonline has a piece, possibly from or citing an LJKS Car Magazine article, that the 2600 IL6 in the 2600 could've had a greater output but was reined because they didn't want the 2600 competing with the V8 engined models.
I can believe that, the V8 was an ancient design even in the mid 70s, ashmatic, weedy, fragile, and inefficient. The only thing it ever did really well was turn money into noise. We only loved it in the UK because everything else was so bad.

The SD1 was very unrefined for a supposedly premium car, the axle tramp from that cheapskate rear end would have been unacceptable in a Marina.

Good article on it here
https://www.aronline.co.uk/opinion/i-was-there/rov...

Edited by stickleback123 on Thursday 24th November 12:55
I don't think the v8 could ever be described as fragile? For what it's worth I always found it a lovely engine.

Snow and Rocks

722 posts

11 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
0a said:
Most w124s and 190s are knackered now. Even if they look nice they will ride badly. I replaced pretty much everything suspension wise on my 190, and it's great now. Despite being relatively low mileage, it dates from 1988 so the components will have been almost 35 years old.
Yep, the one I got a lift in had all recently had quitr a bit of money spent on the suspension.

Similarly we had an old Land Cruiser 80 series in the family for 20+ years and despite keeping it well maintained had never done any work on the suspension. Because the decline was gradual I hadn't noticed how badly it was driving until one of the shocks started weeping. I decided to treat it to a new set of springs and shocks all round and the result was spectacular. Smoother, tighter, more controlled, genuinely like a different truck altogether.

stickleback123

9,199 posts

173 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
biggbn said:
I don't think the v8 could ever be described as fragile? For what it's worth I always found it a lovely engine.
They're usually worn out by 100 - 120k, which was good durability for a 60s engine I suppose but they were selling it into the 21st century. The later ones where they desperately tried to get half decent power from it also liked to crack and break.

They look great against 60s and 70s domestic four pots and the stone age six pots they replaced, but GM didn't sack it off for being wonderful. It's massively overrated in the UK.

Edited by stickleback123 on Thursday 24th November 14:32

ah80809

6 posts

23 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
blue al said:
This instead… https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/12186783

No wonder BL went bankrupt
.. my poor eyes .. OMG that is so hideous .. and it's bringing back childhood memories which have been buried very deeply for 4 decades .. SCHTOOOOP!

I shall have to go back to ogling that restored 2.5-16 ...

Rob 131 Sport

1,483 posts

36 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
carinaman said:
Rostyle said:
So its the early 80s , new company car, my Dad's choice comes down to Rover 2600s, Audi100CD , or Merc190E. The BMW 320i was quickly discounted as it looked similar to the 70s model ( if you look at next gen E36 there is definitely a hint of 190E , even BMW knew their shape was old hat in the mid 80s...) Audi 100 no good as I think it was just too long. So we knew that 190E was beautifully engineered but it was so expensive and so small inside ,sadly it was discounted early on . We ended up getting the Rover 2600s face-lift version which was actually very nice . Still hanker after a 2.0l 190E after all these years ,auto as I've heard the manual isn't that great.
CAR Magazine had a lot of praise for the 100 but said the physical size was due to the aerodynamics which were also responsible for the poor ventilation.

ARonline has a piece, possibly from or citing an LJKS Car Magazine article, that the 2600 IL6 in the 2600 could've had a greater output but was reined because they didn't want the 2600 competing with the V8 engined models.
He’d of been better going for the Audi 100, they were well ahead of the Rover SD1 and Ford Granada competition.

politeperson

415 posts

165 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
I remember persuading my 80 yr grandfather to buy one new from Mercedes in 1987. From the beginning of the discussion to the car being on the driveway took less than 2 hours, I recall.

I was 18, he was living at home with us. Dad was at work. He was not pleased with me when he came home!

The car was a 190E auto, wind down front windows, steel wheels, no air con. It had an electric metal roof, cloth seats and that was about it. Solid red with a black interior. I am sure it was £20k.

My first impression of it was absolute rock solid build quality. It felt so much better than everything else dad had owned. I had experienced this before with a Mercedes 240D (w123).

The next thing was that it went like a rocket. Superb handling. The gearbox had one particularity in that you had to press hard for kick-down. If you understood this it was fine and responsive, I am sure many owners never kicked down one in their entire ownership because of this.

The other thing was that it took off from the lights in second gear. Unless you selected S or kicked down like a few Mercs of the time, it felt sluggish. In-fact if your understood this it was actually pretty rapid. 10 seconds to 60 I would guess. The auto box was actually great and quick.

Some how I got away with driving it on his insurance as an 19 year old, so I borrowed it as much as an 19 yr old could and I loved it. Thanks Gramps.

6 years later, after he died at about 30,000 miles, it was parked in the driveway around the back for a year. I was now living in London.The paint oxidized and it was a bit sad. Eventually, when it was restarted a valve had seized causing a loss in compression in one cylinder.

It was that event that lead me to meet my life long friend Nigel from Spilsby Road Garage, Mercedes Specialists in Lincolnshire.

They did a valve job on it, dad paid the bill and the car was restored to full health.

I was given the car as a skint student. It took me everywhere for a year or 4 and was basically in perfect condition when I sold it for £2k in about 2001 to someone from Grantham.

Great cars.


Kawasicki

Original Poster:

11,788 posts

219 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
politeperson said:
I remember persuading my 80 yr grandfather to buy one new from Mercedes in 1987. From the beginning of the discussion to the car being on the driveway took less than 2 hours, I recall.

I was 18, he was living at home with us. Dad was at work. He was not pleased with me when he came home!

The car was a 190E auto, wind down front windows, steel wheels, no air con. It had an electric metal roof, cloth seats and that was about it. Solid red with a black interior. I am sure it was £20k.

My first impression of it was absolute rock solid build quality. It felt so much better than everything else dad had owned. I had experienced this before with a Mercedes 240D (w123).

The next thing was that it went like a rocket. Superb handling. The gearbox had one particularity in that you had to press hard for kick-down. If you understood this it was fine and responsive, I am sure many owners never kicked down one in their entire ownership because of this.

The other thing was that it took off from the lights in second gear. Unless you selected S or kicked down like a few Mercs of the time, it felt sluggish. In-fact if your understood this it was actually pretty rapid. 10 seconds to 60 I would guess. The auto box was actually great and quick.

Some how I got away with driving it on his insurance as an 19 year old, so I borrowed it as much as an 19 yr old could and I loved it. Thanks Gramps.

6 years later, after he died at about 30,000 miles, it was parked in the driveway around the back for a year. I was now living in London.The paint oxidized and it was a bit sad. Eventually, when it was restarted a valve had seized causing a loss in compression in one cylinder.

It was that event that lead me to meet my life long friend Nigel from Spilsby Road Garage, Mercedes Specialists in Lincolnshire.

They did a valve job on it, dad paid the bill and the car was restored to full health.

I was given the car as a skint student. It took me everywhere for a year or 4 and was basically in perfect condition when I sold it for £2k in about 2001 to someone from Grantham.

Great cars.
Cheers for posting.

w201

27 posts

81 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
All time favourite cars the 190s, not that you’d ever know… my dads 2.6 190e is the first car I can really remember and the car that got me into cars at the age of 3! It was an F reg with loads of pre merger AMG bits on it

My “first” car (which I still have) was a 1989 190 2.0 carb I bought for £200 as a cheap thing until I found a nice C36 AMG but I totally fell for the 190.

Mine only has the 2 litre 8v originally with a peirbreg 175cd carburettor and unfortunately at about 160k miles my head gasket was leaking and valve stem seals were going following from the “while I’m in there” principle I swapped the carb to a pair of twin 45 DCOEs, hotter cam shaft, mild port and polish of the head… not a fast car by any means but being a base spec car it’s very close to the base weight of 1080kg, sounds great and is just a fun drive.












Hippea

1,106 posts

53 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
politeperson said:
I remember persuading my 80 yr grandfather to buy one new from Mercedes in 1987. From the beginning of the discussion to the car being on the driveway took less than 2 hours, I recall.

I was 18, he was living at home with us. Dad was at work. He was not pleased with me when he came home!

The car was a 190E auto, wind down front windows, steel wheels, no air con. It had an electric metal roof, cloth seats and that was about it. Solid red with a black interior. I am sure it was £20k.

My first impression of it was absolute rock solid build quality. It felt so much better than everything else dad had owned. I had experienced this before with a Mercedes 240D (w123).

The next thing was that it went like a rocket. Superb handling. The gearbox had one particularity in that you had to press hard for kick-down. If you understood this it was fine and responsive, I am sure many owners never kicked down one in their entire ownership because of this.

The other thing was that it took off from the lights in second gear. Unless you selected S or kicked down like a few Mercs of the time, it felt sluggish. In-fact if your understood this it was actually pretty rapid. 10 seconds to 60 I would guess. The auto box was actually great and quick.

Some how I got away with driving it on his insurance as an 19 year old, so I borrowed it as much as an 19 yr old could and I loved it. Thanks Gramps.

6 years later, after he died at about 30,000 miles, it was parked in the driveway around the back for a year. I was now living in London.The paint oxidized and it was a bit sad. Eventually, when it was restarted a valve had seized causing a loss in compression in one cylinder.

It was that event that lead me to meet my life long friend Nigel from Spilsby Road Garage, Mercedes Specialists in Lincolnshire.

They did a valve job on it, dad paid the bill and the car was restored to full health.

I was given the car as a skint student. It took me everywhere for a year or 4 and was basically in perfect condition when I sold it for £2k in about 2001 to someone from Grantham.

Great cars.
What a fantastic story

Snow and Rocks

722 posts

11 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
Hippea said:
What a fantastic story
I agree, great, thanks for sharing!

As an aside - the second gear start thing was a bit odd. Even my parent's 300E 24v felt a bit flat off the line unless you kicked down in which case it slammed down into first and lit up the back tyres! I might be wrong but I think it did it even with the selector in S and the only way to actually get 1st was to use kickdown or manually select it.

I remember my mum unintentionally burning burning off the line a few times!

Edited by Snow and Rocks on Thursday 24th November 20:55

Mr Tidy

18,752 posts

111 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
Snow and Rocks said:
As an aside - the second gear start thing was a bit odd. Even my parent's 300E 24v felt a bit flat off the line unless you kicked down in which case it slammed down into first and lit up the back tyres! I might be wrong but I think it did it even with the selector in S and the only way to actually get 1st was to use kickdown or manually select it.

Edited by Snow and Rocks on Thursday 24th November 20:55
My W123 280e was exactly the same! It only used 1st gear when you floored it from stationary, but once I discovered that it was hugely entertaining. laugh

BFleming

3,230 posts

127 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
Hippea said:
What a fantastic story
Superb that.

nismo48

1,536 posts

191 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
politeperson said:
I remember persuading my 80 yr grandfather to buy one new from Mercedes in 1987. From the beginning of the discussion to the car being on the driveway took less than 2 hours, I recall.

I was 18, he was living at home with us. Dad was at work. He was not pleased with me when he came home!

The car was a 190E auto, wind down front windows, steel wheels, no air con. It had an electric metal roof, cloth seats and that was about it. Solid red with a black interior. I am sure it was £20k.

My first impression of it was absolute rock solid build quality. It felt so much better than everything else dad had owned. I had experienced this before with a Mercedes 240D (w123).

The next thing was that it went like a rocket. Superb handling. The gearbox had one particularity in that you had to press hard for kick-down. If you understood this it was fine and responsive, I am sure many owners never kicked down one in their entire ownership because of this.

The other thing was that it took off from the lights in second gear. Unless you selected S or kicked down like a few Mercs of the time, it felt sluggish. In-fact if your understood this it was actually pretty rapid. 10 seconds to 60 I would guess. The auto box was actually great and quick.

Some how I got away with driving it on his insurance as an 19 year old, so I borrowed it as much as an 19 yr old could and I loved it. Thanks Gramps.

6 years later, after he died at about 30,000 miles, it was parked in the driveway around the back for a year. I was now living in London.The paint oxidized and it was a bit sad. Eventually, when it was restarted a valve had seized causing a loss in compression in one cylinder.

It was that event that lead me to meet my life long friend Nigel from Spilsby Road Garage, Mercedes Specialists in Lincolnshire.

They did a valve job on it, dad paid the bill and the car was restored to full health.

I was given the car as a skint student. It took me everywhere for a year or 4 and was basically in perfect condition when I sold it for £2k in about 2001 to someone from Grantham.

Great cars.

nismo48

1,536 posts

191 months

Thursday 24th November
quotequote all
politeperson said:
I remember persuading my 80 yr grandfather to buy one new from Mercedes in 1987. From the beginning of the discussion to the car being on the driveway took less than 2 hours, I recall.

I was 18, he was living at home with us. Dad was at work. He was not pleased with me when he came home!

The car was a 190E auto, wind down front windows, steel wheels, no air con. It had an electric metal roof, cloth seats and that was about it. Solid red with a black interior. I am sure it was £20k.

My first impression of it was absolute rock solid build quality. It felt so much better than everything else dad had owned. I had experienced this before with a Mercedes 240D (w123).

The next thing was that it went like a rocket. Superb handling. The gearbox had one particularity in that you had to press hard for kick-down. If you understood this it was fine and responsive, I am sure many owners never kicked down one in their entire ownership because of this.

The other thing was that it took off from the lights in second gear. Unless you selected S or kicked down like a few Mercs of the time, it felt sluggish. In-fact if your understood this it was actually pretty rapid. 10 seconds to 60 I would guess. The auto box was actually great and quick.

Some how I got away with driving it on his insurance as an 19 year old, so I borrowed it as much as an 19 yr old could and I loved it. Thanks Gramps.

6 years later, after he died at about 30,000 miles, it was parked in the driveway around the back for a year. I was now living in London.The paint oxidized and it was a bit sad. Eventually, when it was restarted a valve had seized causing a loss in compression in one cylinder.

It was that event that lead me to meet my life long friend Nigel from Spilsby Road Garage, Mercedes Specialists in Lincolnshire.

They did a valve job on it, dad paid the bill and the car was restored to full health.

I was given the car as a skint student. It took me everywhere for a year or 4 and was basically in perfect condition when I sold it for £2k in about 2001 to someone from Grantham.

Great cars.
What a wonderful story.. smile

Rob 131 Sport

1,483 posts

36 months

Friday 25th November
quotequote all
I just think that Mercedes in the mid 80’s to early 90’s were just lovely cars and so premium.

I bought an ex demo W212 Facelift in 2013 (E250 AMG Sport). I kept it for nearly 5 years (70k miles) and really liked it. I went back to BMW for my next car although did seriously consider an E350 of the current generation.

Based on my experience I would certainly have another. For long European Motorway Journeys I prefer the comfort of the Mercedes. However ultimately I prefer the sporty driving dynamics of the BMW.

Mrs Rob 131 Sport prefers the looks, image and comfort of the Mercedes’ to the BMW.

Mr Tidy

18,752 posts

111 months

Friday 25th November
quotequote all
Snow and Rocks said:
Kawasicki said:
Ride quality of a modern base model C class would completely trounce a 190.
Having owned a modern e class and recently been a passenger in a well sorted w124 i'm not so sure about that.

On almost every other objective metric apart from build quality and durability yes, but I really had forgotten how well they ride.
I doubt a modern C class would have better ride quality.

My 1980 W123 was fantastic, my 1989 W201 190e was great but my 1984 W202 C280 Sport was terrible, and it didn't make up for it with sharp handling!

Snow and Rocks

722 posts

11 months

Friday 25th November
quotequote all
Mr Tidy said:
I doubt a modern C class would have better ride quality.

My 1980 W123 was fantastic, my 1989 W201 190e was great but my 1984 W202 C280 Sport was terrible, and it didn't make up for it with sharp handling!
We had a couple of w212s at the same time. One an E350cdi in Amg Sport trim and the other a E220cdi in se trim. They were both pretty unwieldy through the corners with no real benefit from the harder suspension on the 6 cylinder car.

The ride quality of the SE was acceptable but certainly not amazing while the stiffly sprung Amg sport was borderline uncomfortable if the road was at all rough. The old w124 on fresh springs and shocks was much better than both.

stevew64

1 posts

208 months

Saturday 26th November
quotequote all
I had a 190 2.5d, a 5 pot diesel not mentioned in the brief, but back in 1990 when I owned it, this was a very refined diesel, in my opinion only a 300d was better for us high milers, this car was fitted with a Webasto night heater used in trucks, so you always had a warm engine. I did 45000 per year in those days, this old lady did 90 up hill, 100 on the flat and 110 down hill, but you got out after 300 miles and did your days work. Certainly the grafter of all Mercs I loved it, and only sold it for the boy racer Escort RS Turbo that tempted me back to petrol.

cerb4.5lee

24,943 posts

164 months

Saturday 26th November
quotequote all
stevew64 said:
I had a 190 2.5d, a 5 pot diesel not mentioned in the brief, but back in 1990 when I owned it, this was a very refined diesel, in my opinion only a 300d was better for us high milers, this car was fitted with a Webasto night heater used in trucks, so you always had a warm engine. I did 45000 per year in those days, this old lady did 90 up hill, 100 on the flat and 110 down hill, but you got out after 300 miles and did your days work. Certainly the grafter of all Mercs I loved it, and only sold it for the boy racer Escort RS Turbo that tempted me back to petrol.
Absolutely epic lurking! beer

Phil2NL

21 posts

94 months

Sunday 27th November
quotequote all
I really like the W201, last week I finally bought one smile
Will start a Readers Cars thread soon!