RE: Mercedes marks 40 years of the 190

RE: Mercedes marks 40 years of the 190

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Discussion

cerb4.5lee

24,942 posts

164 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
Rostyle said:
So the 190E and 3 series were very very expensive at the time , you were getting golf/escort sized interiors with a really poor standard specification. I guess that's why the majority of company car user choosers took SD1s, Granadas, Carltons etc , much bigger much higher spec etc . I suppose if your company car is to last 2-3 years do you care its built to last 40 years ? The other issue was the UK was not the same as today , people were not obsessed with perceived image , that came later with the advent of PCPs .
That was what hit me at the time back in 1995 when I drove an E200. I couldn't believe how terrible the spec was, and it felt very cheap inside to me with its cloth interior and the lack of mod cons.

My Dad had a 1993 Granada Scorpio 24v back in 1994(he still has it now) so I was used to that though. That had a leather interior and pretty much everything was electric in it with lots of mod cons. The Merc felt low rent to me in comparison, but I think Merc were going downhill in 1995 in comparison to how Mercs were in the past if I remember correctly though.

Julian Scott

754 posts

8 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
cerb4.5lee said:
Rostyle said:
So the 190E and 3 series were very very expensive at the time , you were getting golf/escort sized interiors with a really poor standard specification. I guess that's why the majority of company car user choosers took SD1s, Granadas, Carltons etc , much bigger much higher spec etc . I suppose if your company car is to last 2-3 years do you care its built to last 40 years ? The other issue was the UK was not the same as today , people were not obsessed with perceived image , that came later with the advent of PCPs .
That was what hit me at the time back in 1995 when I drove an E200. I couldn't believe how terrible the spec was, and it felt very cheap inside to me with its cloth interior and the lack of mod cons.

My Dad had a 1993 Granada Scorpio 24v back in 1994(he still has it now) so I was used to that though. That had a leather interior and pretty much everything was electric in it with lots of mod cons. The Merc felt low rent to me in comparison, but I think Merc were going downhill in 1995 in comparison to how Mercs were in the past if I remember correctly though.
The Germans at the time were like Ryanair, came with zero spec, everything was an option. They were renowned for it and the butt of plenty of jokes. My dad's E21 didn't even come with a radio as standard.

seawise

2,019 posts

190 months

Wednesday 23rd November
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This is my 2 owner, 26,500 miles, 1988 190E auto complete with optional leccy sunroof, drivers central armrest and rear head restraints.

Feels like a new car still, slow but stately. Love it but doesn’t get much use so will probably send it to auction next spring. Truely ground breaking cars.


BFleming

3,230 posts

127 months

Wednesday 23rd November
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I've owned 2 190's, so that itch is well & truly scratched. My first was a 190E 2.3-16 (commonly referred to on PH as a Cosworth even though there was no Cosworth branding on them). The second was a 190D 2.0 which was brutally basic, particularly compared to the 2.3 that preceded it.
I wanted a W124 - and kind-of still do. Anyhow, some pics:






Kawasicki

Original Poster:

11,788 posts

219 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
Some people consider velour seats, a sunroof, electric windows and mirrors high spec.

Others consider ride quality, refinement, body stiffness, aero stability, etc, high spec.

Some things haven’t changed.

Look underneath a modern Mercedes C Class and compare it to a modern Ford/Vauxhall/etc. Very different.

DaveyBoyWonder

1,798 posts

158 months

Wednesday 23rd November
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Another person thats developed an itch for a 190 here. Subtle lowering job and a nice set of wheels for an occasional daily/ongoing project/Sunday car...

What are they like for rust???

Spleen

4,938 posts

105 months

Wednesday 23rd November
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Bloody hell, I bought one of these about 15 years ago for 850 and eventually chopped it in against an A6 for 500. It was utterly gutless but I loved it.

E30KB

145 posts

48 months

Wednesday 23rd November
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190e is so comfortable. E30 is so much fun to drive.

I suppose it's all about your priorities. I couldn't decide what mine were !.


Rich Boy Spanner

798 posts

114 months

Wednesday 23rd November
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Always liked these. From that golden era of solid, basic in terms of equipment but well engineered German cars Quite surprising in some ways as they looked very staid and heavy so didn't suspect they weighed from just over a ton and had a 5 link rear suspension. A friend had one, a petrol which had the optional long distance fuel tank (or wording to that effect), was a fantastic motorway car, smooth, felt surprisingly low. Lovely to spend time in.

stickleback123

9,197 posts

173 months

Wednesday 23rd November
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Nicolas Lazar said:
Opportunity to ponder what core qualities of the real life / every day passenger car have been improved since then. Real qualities, not gimmicks.
All of them. Every single one.

These and the E30 were leagues ahead of the mainstream crap (particularly Ford) at the time but the same gulf between manufacturers doesn't exist these days, and in terms of every objective measure practically any modern car blows these into the water.

People like them today for subjective reasons, which is fine of course, but there aren't any objective measures by which they are better besides perhaps ergonomics compared to cars with touch screens. I know people who've bought into the internet hype about how wonderful these, W124s, Volvo 700/900s and the like are and have spunked money only to find that... they're really not.

devnull

3,512 posts

141 months

Wednesday 23rd November
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stickleback123 said:
Nicolas Lazar said:
Opportunity to ponder what core qualities of the real life / every day passenger car have been improved since then. Real qualities, not gimmicks.
All of them. Every single one.

These and the E30 were leagues ahead of the mainstream crap (particularly Ford) at the time but the same gulf between manufacturers doesn't exist these days, and in terms of every objective measure practically any modern car blows these into the water.

People like them today for subjective reasons, which is fine of course, but there aren't any objective measures by which they are better besides perhaps ergonomics compared to cars with touch screens. I know people who've bought into the internet hype about how wonderful these, W124s, Volvo 700/900s and the like are and have spunked money only to find that... they're really not.
Precisely. Our brand new family Skoda Karoq is quiet and refined, pulls when needed and effectively wafts. Aside from this i've basically only really driven Mercs over the past 15 years. But it's hard to tell much of a difference when it comes to the basics.

Most of the luxury cars thesedays differentiate themselves on lifestyle marketing, and keep the "sneering at lower brands" truly in check. But in reality theres little difference. Compare that with my dad coming home in the late 80s with a 190, little me sitting in it and thinking 'cor this is a million times nicer than our st cortina'

Captain_Morgan

813 posts

43 months

Wednesday 23rd November
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I’d really like a 190E with a 2.0/2.3 kompresser & auto, more power & slightly lighter than the 2.6, that would be a fun mini barge.

stickleback123

9,197 posts

173 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
devnull said:
Compare that with my dad coming home in the late 80s with a 190, little me sitting in it and thinking 'cor this is a million times nicer than our st cortina'
I was talking about this with a PHer the other week, back in the 80s and even well into the 90s there was an absolute chasm of difference between your average man's family motorised biscuit tin with seats like broken camp beds, and a big barge like an XJ or an S Class or a 7 series. Now there really, really isn't and almost anything you can buy is really quite good.

I make a 3 hour trip to London, then 3 hours back once a week and I'm currently doing it in a Jaguar XJ and it's lovely but I spent 9 months doing it in a diesel Peugeot 208 and you know what... it was absolutely fine and considerably better for the trip than a 190E!

TREMAiNE

3,618 posts

133 months

Wednesday 23rd November
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E30KB said:
190e is so comfortable. E30 is so much fun to drive.

I suppose it's all about your priorities. I couldn't decide what mine were !.

Excellent pairing!

Kawasicki

Original Poster:

11,788 posts

219 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
devnull said:
But in reality theres little difference. Compare that with my dad coming home in the late 80s with a 190, little me sitting in it and thinking 'cor this is a million times nicer than our st cortina'
So a modern C class wouldn’t be much different to say a modern Mondeo?

stickleback123

9,197 posts

173 months

Wednesday 23rd November
quotequote all
Kawasicki said:
So a modern C class wouldn’t be much different to say a modern Mondeo?
I can't imagine Ford releasing anything as tacky and naff as the current C class?

Charlie_1

676 posts

76 months

Wednesday 23rd November
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a girlfriends father had the cosworth version when they were current , probably the first 'posh' car I sat in

Chunkychucky

5,540 posts

153 months

Wednesday 23rd November
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s m said:
Friend had a 2.3 ages ago when they were really cheap cars at just around current shed money - £1500. It was nice but never felt like it had all the horses there maybe because of the weight. Succumbed to the tin worm so later he got the 2.5-16 which he still has. Seems much quicker and is well built. Very well tied down at the back so even with 200bhp it’s not lairy at all
We had a £1500 2.5-16 in Blauschwartz that we picked up probably 15 years ago now. It had some running issues attributable to the injection system, however once we sorted that and the woeful gearchange, it still felt like a missed opportunity...

The engine sounded good once above 4k RPM, and pulled alright, but the chassis always felt like it hadn't been developed with 'keen driving' in mind (more Mercedes' usual clientele being the target), the steering from memory was awfully vague, and the day my father swapped it for a manual E24 635csi was a very fun day... driving

Leins

8,685 posts

132 months

Wednesday 23rd November
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I remember the excitement the first time I saw a 190 2.3-16v, it seemed such a special car. Just not quite as exciting and special as the first time I saw an E30 M3 though

Probably a contentious viewpoint, but I would regard Audi build quality from this period as being of a slightly higher standard again, probably because they were targeting those Merc and BMW “premium” customers and trying to get to a similar sales level. My B3 80 was a lovely thing to behold, although not a patch to drive on the E30 in particular

Wren-went

424 posts

22 months

Wednesday 23rd November
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In the mid 90s I had a K reg 190D 2.5 Auto it was brilliant on the motorway but it was slow I put it down that my 2 previous cars had been an Astra Gte 16v then a Cavalier Gsi 2000, it made up for it on fuel but after a year or so I got rid as it seamed so slow so I traded it in for a 14 months old Audi A4 1.8T sport

My brother also had a 190 a 2.0 Auto which he bought at about 3 years old it was so very basic windy windows but an electric sunroof and came with the Mercedes wheel trims .

I got rid of my 2.5 due to performance of around 95bhp the 2.0 must have been horrendously slow , always fancied either of 2.3/2.5 16v but the dog leg put me of i know id have consistently put the car in reverse , I also remember in the 2000s when you could by either under 5 grand.