Ineos Grenadier customer cars arrive at dealers
Discussion
ZedLeg said:
I still don't really get it, I think I'd still just by an old Defender or similar if I wanted a "real" off-roader. Fair play to them for getting it to production though.
Same here.Being an enthusiast I personally would rather throw that amount into an old Defender to bring it up to the standard I want.
Could be pretty good all around and would still be the handsome Original.
Possibly I would have to top up the budget a bit for the supercharged Jaguar engine option
For commercial use I would just buy the Grenadier.
Griffithy said:
Same here.
Being an enthusiast I personally would rather throw that amount into an old Defender to bring it up to the standard I want.
Could be pretty good all around and would still be the handsome Original.
Possibly I would have to top up the budget a bit for the supercharged Jaguar engine option
For commercial use I would just buy the Grenadier.
That's what a couple of farmers round here have done. Had proper restos done on their Hi-cap pick ups and carried on using them. There's another had an old G wagen done up with a nice burbly V8 in it. They all seem to get properly used too. I'd love to find out who has done the resto work, but I haven't managed to collar the owners yet.Being an enthusiast I personally would rather throw that amount into an old Defender to bring it up to the standard I want.
Could be pretty good all around and would still be the handsome Original.
Possibly I would have to top up the budget a bit for the supercharged Jaguar engine option
For commercial use I would just buy the Grenadier.
jeremy996 said:
There are a lot of comments about how many Grenadiers will be sold in the UK.
Ineos are only wanting to sell about 6000 in total per year in the UK, split 1700 M1 (Belstaff variants) and 4300 N1 (Commercial variants), so they stay under the Small Producer rules for CO2 emissions.
In Europe, most are going to Germany. There are 'significant' orders from Australia and South Africa.
Even 6000 seems optimistic to me. Ineos are only wanting to sell about 6000 in total per year in the UK, split 1700 M1 (Belstaff variants) and 4300 N1 (Commercial variants), so they stay under the Small Producer rules for CO2 emissions.
In Europe, most are going to Germany. There are 'significant' orders from Australia and South Africa.
300bhp/ton said:
The Land Cruiser only comes with a low powered slow diesel engine and is way behind in almost every area. Plus it's fugly.
Whilst the current Land Cruiser is no looker, its better looking than the Grenadier in my opinion which looks like someone has put a weirdly squashed face on the front of a decades old LR design. I don't get it... if the prices are comparable with the new Defender, why wouldn't you buy something thats new and looks new than something thats new and looks like its from the 70s?DaveyBoyWonder said:
Whilst the current Land Cruiser is no looker, its better looking than the Grenadier in my opinion which looks like someone has put a weirdly squashed face on the front of a decades old LR design. I don't get it... if the prices are comparable with the new Defender, why wouldn't you buy something thats new and looks new than something thats new and looks like its from the 70s?
I can imagine the aftermarket (Urban etc) will have bumpers and body kits available fairly soon to sort the looks out.Red9zero said:
DaveyBoyWonder said:
Whilst the current Land Cruiser is no looker, its better looking than the Grenadier in my opinion which looks like someone has put a weirdly squashed face on the front of a decades old LR design. I don't get it... if the prices are comparable with the new Defender, why wouldn't you buy something thats new and looks new than something thats new and looks like its from the 70s?
I can imagine the aftermarket (Urban etc) will have bumpers and body kits available fairly soon to sort the looks out.
DonkeyApple said:
mikeswagon said:
I'm not in the market, but I'd still rather have a new LR, and get to know my local techs on a first name basis 
.
At least when you drive a new Defender down the road the chances are that the bloke on the pavement who shouts 'C U Next Tuesday!' Is in fact your local mechanic and he genuinely means he'll see you next Tuesday. . 
DonkeyApple said:
LP670 said:
These should have had a tough japanese engine in them like a toyota 1UZ or 1GR, would have fitted much better with the rugged philosophy.
I remember having a conversation several years ago with someone at the top of the project at the time and when the PR was talking about a sub £40k car for the common man they were talking about it being over £60k and needing an engine brand that consumers in that segment would tollerate. I suspect BMW was settled on from the possibilities as they didn't have their own product to compete and were keen to expand partner sales to help amortise development costs. I think the other advantage is that aren't the diesel and the petrol I6 units interchangeable on the production line meaning good cost savings?I guess with all manufacturers chasing emissions at the cost of everything, especially the kind of long life ruggedness they're after, it's not an easy choice. I wonder if some form of hybrid would work as you could use a smaller and more simple engine with electric boost when you want more power.
Haven't they destressed the units? Aren't they normally aspirated versions?
But I agree re alternate power trains. I'm sure they'll be added just to be able to keep selling it.
Jim bangs on about fossil fuel hydrogen but that's not going to be permitted in many markets and is pretty niche.
Something like this is probably well suited to the range extender solution?
But I agree re alternate power trains. I'm sure they'll be added just to be able to keep selling it.
Jim bangs on about fossil fuel hydrogen but that's not going to be permitted in many markets and is pretty niche.
Something like this is probably well suited to the range extender solution?
dhutch said:
It does seem a bit odd, that is has a 'proper' rugged 4x4 chassis designed for off road performance, fairly utilitarian exterior and interior, and the the engine out of a fast estate car. Time will tell I guess.
Yup. But BMW is the least premium of the generic premium brands and the people involved aren't fools so will have chosen the power plant based not just on where the product was to be priced but also on who would sell them engines and who will still be making those engines for the next ten years etc. Give it a few years and there will be an LS conversion kit available.
Oh I mean yes, it also has to be an engine that is commercially available, at the right price and for the right duration.
Its also the newer B57 engine, rather than the still not very old N57 engine caught up in the police car engine issues.
Which as said, where also due to doing a huge amount of idling, and then being used hard at high speed.
Its also the newer B57 engine, rather than the still not very old N57 engine caught up in the police car engine issues.
Which as said, where also due to doing a huge amount of idling, and then being used hard at high speed.
I've had several large 4x4 Toyotas since the mid 90's, all but one bought used, not everyones cup of tea not bought for looks as all except for the 90 series Colorado which looked ok for the time the rest have looked odd in some ways and still do, but you arn't looking at it when driving it and there's just something about them that gets under your skin, owners will know what i mean, you find people repeat buy them, people who couldn't give a monkeys for 'scene' or image and care not a jot what anyone else thinks of their choice.
I think these are the type of people who will buy the Grenadier, it doesn't have any class pretensions, its not meant to draw adoring glances, the front bumper is there for a purpose not a fashion accessory.
If you compare it with Prado, because that's what the current Toyota offering in the UK is (full size Landcruisers haven't been available new from dealers for over 10 years), its in a class above, it's not a mammoth now overcomplicated machine that the Landcruiser 200/300 became, it's going to sit above the Prado range, a range hobbled in the UK versions because a 2.8 4 pot Diesel just doesn't do it justice when there's no upgrade engine option, its more like a luxury version of the various 70 series, and when you get into those machines its competitively priced.
Its not competing with LR because they abandoned the market for a capable but still simple as it can be machine.
I wish Ineos every success.
I think these are the type of people who will buy the Grenadier, it doesn't have any class pretensions, its not meant to draw adoring glances, the front bumper is there for a purpose not a fashion accessory.
If you compare it with Prado, because that's what the current Toyota offering in the UK is (full size Landcruisers haven't been available new from dealers for over 10 years), its in a class above, it's not a mammoth now overcomplicated machine that the Landcruiser 200/300 became, it's going to sit above the Prado range, a range hobbled in the UK versions because a 2.8 4 pot Diesel just doesn't do it justice when there's no upgrade engine option, its more like a luxury version of the various 70 series, and when you get into those machines its competitively priced.
Its not competing with LR because they abandoned the market for a capable but still simple as it can be machine.
I wish Ineos every success.
Smint said:
Its not competing with LR because they abandoned the market for a capable but still simple as it can be machine
Apart from its 1960s chassis technology, how is a Grenadire simpler than any other modern car? Both versions have the most complicated evolutions of traditional powertrains in existence, and they have all the obligated electronic control and management systems - it’s eons away from something like an old Tdi Defender. Just like every other car has to be to get to market now.Even the interior space and design seems fussy and compromised for an all-new car.
NomduJour said:
DonkeyApple said:
Something like this is probably well suited to the range extender solution?
Fitting a tonne of batteries into a ‘70s-style ICE ladder chassis doesn’t sound ideal (as MB have supposedly found out with the EQG). This type of car is quite screwed in markets which don't favour the rampant burning of diesel or petrol that's for sure.
Smint said:
I've had several large 4x4 Toyotas since the mid 90's, all but one bought used, not everyones cup of tea not bought for looks as all except for the 90 series Colorado which looked ok for the time the rest have looked odd in some ways and still do, but you arn't looking at it when driving it and there's just something about them that gets under your skin, owners will know what i mean, you find people repeat buy them, people who couldn't give a monkeys for 'scene' or image and care not a jot what anyone else thinks of their choice.
I think these are the type of people who will buy the Grenadier, it doesn't have any class pretensions, its not meant to draw adoring glances, the front bumper is there for a purpose not a fashion accessory.
If you compare it with Prado, because that's what the current Toyota offering in the UK is (full size Landcruisers haven't been available new from dealers for over 10 years), its in a class above, it's not a mammoth now overcomplicated machine that the Landcruiser 200/300 became, it's going to sit above the Prado range, a range hobbled in the UK versions because a 2.8 4 pot Diesel just doesn't do it justice when there's no upgrade engine option, its more like a luxury version of the various 70 series, and when you get into those machines its competitively priced.
Its not competing with LR because they abandoned the market for a capable but still simple as it can be machine.
I wish Ineos every success.
But the Grenadier is 100% a scene vehicle. It's why it's a pastiche of someone else's product and scene. I think these are the type of people who will buy the Grenadier, it doesn't have any class pretensions, its not meant to draw adoring glances, the front bumper is there for a purpose not a fashion accessory.
If you compare it with Prado, because that's what the current Toyota offering in the UK is (full size Landcruisers haven't been available new from dealers for over 10 years), its in a class above, it's not a mammoth now overcomplicated machine that the Landcruiser 200/300 became, it's going to sit above the Prado range, a range hobbled in the UK versions because a 2.8 4 pot Diesel just doesn't do it justice when there's no upgrade engine option, its more like a luxury version of the various 70 series, and when you get into those machines its competitively priced.
Its not competing with LR because they abandoned the market for a capable but still simple as it can be machine.
I wish Ineos every success.
I think you'd be right if it wasn't a visual imitation 100% done to ride a very specific scene.
It's entire raison d'etre is as an imitation of another on trend scene product for the purpose of cashing in.
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