What’s the point in the Park function of a automatic?
Discussion
Would not surprise me if it started out as a safety feature for San Franciso residents, then just got moved across to all automatics. The Americans love their automatics and I presume this was the first, big market for them.
The added bonus and not least ease of the park function would make sense there - and yes particularly in San Francisco where any car just relying on neutral and the handbrake is in serious danger of free rolling. Until you go there, you simply cannot imagine how steep those hills are!
The added bonus and not least ease of the park function would make sense there - and yes particularly in San Francisco where any car just relying on neutral and the handbrake is in serious danger of free rolling. Until you go there, you simply cannot imagine how steep those hills are!
jondude said:
Would not surprise me if it started out as a safety feature for San Franciso residents, then just got moved across to all automatics. The Americans love their automatics and I presume this was the first, big market for them.
The added bonus and not least ease of the park function would make sense there - and yes particularly in San Francisco where any car just relying on neutral and the handbrake is in serious danger of free rolling. Until you go there, you simply cannot imagine how steep those hills are!
nearly 100% of drivers used to turn their wheels into the curb too. with modern cars that habit may have eased a bit?The added bonus and not least ease of the park function would make sense there - and yes particularly in San Francisco where any car just relying on neutral and the handbrake is in serious danger of free rolling. Until you go there, you simply cannot imagine how steep those hills are!
Second Best said:
Does anybody else here have an EV with a manual handbrake? I didn't think EVs were able to have a "Park" setting, so to speak, indeed mine just has R/N/D. Disengage the handbrake and you can push it around.
I can't think of many EVs that would have a manual handbrake, VW E-Up and early or base spec Renault Zoe?A few cars ago I had a Smart, it's an 'automated manual' gearbox. The shifter centred to neutral it was a move to the left for Drive and then + and - for up and down gears, or a move down for reverse. The American market car with the same engine and gearbox had a PRND automatic shifter
ScoobyChris said:
sooty61 said:
I would say most people use P when they park. I never use the handbrake
In my car it engages P when the engine gets switched off anyway but I use the handbrake also. In manual cars, I’ll always leave it in gear with handbrake on.Chris
Edited by ScoobyChris on Saturday 18th March 21:51
Engine is switched off
Driver’s door is opened
Driver’s seat belt it undone.
I rarely need to press P, but I do use the manual parking brake lever.
Oh, and if in a long wait in traffic, I engage neutral, put parking brake on and take my foot off the footbrake
I occasionally engage my parking brake when coming to a stop to give the shoes/drum a bit of work in order to avoid glazed brake shoes (recommended for rear discs with drum-in hat shoes).
On manuals I always leave it in gear, but my wife shuns that procedure with hers.
Many modern manual cars cannot be started unless the clutch is depressed (avoids the ‘starting in gear’ situation)
V8 Bob said:
Many moons ago had a Citroen BX handbrake was on front disc brake. If you applied it after a fast journey with hit brakes once the disc cooled and contracted the handbrake was effectively released….always had to leave in gear or be like a colleague who wondered where his car had gone!
Had this happen to me on a rear handbraked car too.It was a brand new early model mondeo. I'd driven it back over the hills between Buxton and Congleton, parked it on the drive and 5 minutes later saw it rolling back down the side of the house.
Luckily just a tiny mark on the bumper where the wall stopped it.
I didn't think I was being that 'enthusiastic' on the brakes, but since then I've always left my cars in gear.
Wacky Racer said:
Higgs boson said:
Wacky Racer said:
You should never leave a manual car parked up in neutral.
Always in first, plus apply the handbrake....No chance of the car rolling away.
If I'm facing downhill, I stick it in reverse. You likely do, too. Always in first, plus apply the handbrake....No chance of the car rolling away.
If you are going to choose the direction of your gear based on whether facing uphill or downhill, you should choose a gear in the direction of travel if your handbrake fails. You never turn an engine backwards as you can mess up the timing (the tensioners are designed for the running direction of the engine, regardless of whether the torque is applied from the wheels to the engine or the engine to the wheels).
So, facing uphill you would engage reverse, and downhill a forward gear.
However... As it's unlikely to move far enough to spin the engine (as you have doubtless turned the wheels to use the kerb to halt any progress), I'd say it's a nugatory concern whether you choose forward or reverse gears.
stevemcs said:
We see quite a few automatic cars fail there mot because the owner never uses the handbrake, personally I always use the handbrake
A Mercedes specialist near me always leaves the parking brake off - I suspect it avoids "well it worked when I dropped it off" arguments if it seizes through non use.I think the necessity of a P-brake is case dependent too - I always use it, but it's usually unnecessary round here in an auto as the land is pretty flat. If I lived somewhere like Yorks though, I would probably think it's vital as I'd be parking on hills all the time.
MikeB444 said:
V8 Bob said:
Many moons ago had a Citroen BX handbrake was on front disc brake. If you applied it after a fast journey with hit brakes once the disc cooled and contracted the handbrake was effectively released….always had to leave in gear or be like a colleague who wondered where his car had gone!
Had this happen to me on a rear handbraked car too.It was a brand new early model mondeo. I'd driven it back over the hills between Buxton and Congleton, parked it on the drive and 5 minutes later saw it rolling back down the side of the house.
Luckily just a tiny mark on the bumper where the wall stopped it.
I didn't think I was being that 'enthusiastic' on the brakes, but since then I've always left my cars in gear.
Told her she was the last one to drive it & I hadn't touched it or seen it since she came in.
Same issue as the above, sloping drive & fortunately we're in a Close & it hadn't made it across to the neighbours!
She's left it in gear ever since.
A quick google showed it to be a common problem across several marques.
I just put my Transit in P when I park up. I very rarely park on any incline so never need the parking brake. I had been using it, but as mine has been heavily adapted, the 'proper' lever was replaced with a very rudimentary switch and mechanism. The mechanism is bulky and as Ford had designed the Transit not to have one so this has a smaller fuel tank to accommodate it.
Anyhow after barely 1500 miles the mechanism failed, owing to the cobbled together nature of the set up and the fact that when I locked the car, the signal also triggered the handbrake to tighten on even further. Once it go too tight, it breaks. I'm lucky mine was off when it failed. When it was replaced, the technician told me not to use it unless 'I'm parked up the side of Everest.'
Michael
Anyhow after barely 1500 miles the mechanism failed, owing to the cobbled together nature of the set up and the fact that when I locked the car, the signal also triggered the handbrake to tighten on even further. Once it go too tight, it breaks. I'm lucky mine was off when it failed. When it was replaced, the technician told me not to use it unless 'I'm parked up the side of Everest.'
Michael
Pica-Pica said:
F30 worth ZF8 auto engage P when stationary and,
Engine is switched off
Driver’s door is opened
Driver’s seat belt it undone.
Ah yes this reminds me of the fun and games I had trying to manoeuvre my car (hanging out the open door) so i could get the jacking point in a good spot and it kept putting it in Park and bonging at me.Engine is switched off
Driver’s door is opened
Driver’s seat belt it undone.
I’m sure the design is well intended but a bit nanny state for me.
Chris
ScoobyChris said:
Pica-Pica said:
F30 worth ZF8 auto engage P when stationary and,
Engine is switched off
Driver’s door is opened
Driver’s seat belt it undone.
Ah yes this reminds me of the fun and games I had trying to manoeuvre my car (hanging out the open door) so i could get the jacking point in a good spot and it kept putting it in Park and bonging at me.Engine is switched off
Driver’s door is opened
Driver’s seat belt it undone.
I’m sure the design is well intended but a bit nanny state for me.
Chris
donkmeister said:
Not actually as smart as it might sound...
If you are going to choose the direction of your gear based on whether facing uphill or downhill, you should choose a gear in the direction of travel if your handbrake fails. You never turn an engine backwards as you can mess up the timing (the tensioners are designed for the running direction of the engine, regardless of whether the torque is applied from the wheels to the engine or the engine to the wheels).
So, facing uphill you would engage reverse, and downhill a forward gear.
However... As it's unlikely to move far enough to spin the engine (as you have doubtless turned the wheels to use the kerb to halt any progress), I'd say it's a nugatory concern whether you choose forward or reverse gears.
You can't remove the keys from the ignition on my old manual Corvette unless it's in reverse, likewise once the keys are removed you can't disengage reverse gear. Quite possibly an anti theft measure more than anything else. The handbrake itself is next to useless.If you are going to choose the direction of your gear based on whether facing uphill or downhill, you should choose a gear in the direction of travel if your handbrake fails. You never turn an engine backwards as you can mess up the timing (the tensioners are designed for the running direction of the engine, regardless of whether the torque is applied from the wheels to the engine or the engine to the wheels).
So, facing uphill you would engage reverse, and downhill a forward gear.
However... As it's unlikely to move far enough to spin the engine (as you have doubtless turned the wheels to use the kerb to halt any progress), I'd say it's a nugatory concern whether you choose forward or reverse gears.
In so far automatics, always used park and never applied the handbrake. It's a bit different now with drive by wire as the handbrake functions are often automated.
Some of the replies in this thread are quite unbelievable.
When parking on a hill the front wheels should always be angled to prevent a runaway, regardless of auto or manual.
Most US auto drivers never use the handbrake (or parking brake), it's generally referred to as an emergency brake.
I thought everybody put a manual car in gear when parked, seems so obvious to me.
Nickbrapp said:
What happens if you put an auto into park when you’re driving along? My transit has a big clunky gear lever for the auto box and I feel it would cause me to crash but I still want to try it
I did it in a rental once at about 10mph... It made a ratcheting sound (which makes sense as the park mechanism is a big ratchet) and then stood on its nose.No damage done, but I have heard tales of pawls breaking off.
ETA it was a hateful, hateful Peugeot 30-something with a 4-speed slushbox and about 2 horsepower. This was a new car in the 2010s, when 6-speed autos were already typical of that class of car and most small engine stuff had a turbo to make up for the lack of capacity. Aagh I wanted to hurt it. Hence the "experiment" as I reached my house.
Edited by donkmeister on Sunday 19th March 19:30
Nickbrapp said:
What happens if you put an auto into park when you’re driving along? My transit has a big clunky gear lever for the auto box and I feel it would cause me to crash but I still want to try it
Depends how tough the transmission is I guess, I know someone with a delica which have a column shifter controlling some lumpy old yank unit and he shoved the shifter into r or p instead of flipping the indicator on the motorway... It survived. Kinda think whatever my transit has would be a whole lot more explodey and expensive.I have as variety of cars manual, auto, paddles etc.
When a car has a park function that is all I use; never use the handbrake ( or the handbrake button as so many new cars have no actual handbrake).
As for premature wear, I have put very high mileages ( over 300,000km ) on cars and never had an issue of any kind of wear.
For pure manuals I leave them in first; Sometimes there is longer term storage and I do not leave the handbrake on then either.
When a car has a park function that is all I use; never use the handbrake ( or the handbrake button as so many new cars have no actual handbrake).
As for premature wear, I have put very high mileages ( over 300,000km ) on cars and never had an issue of any kind of wear.
For pure manuals I leave them in first; Sometimes there is longer term storage and I do not leave the handbrake on then either.
I’m sure people rely on P as a fail safe stop when parked.
Funny this topic should come up as was only thinking similar yesterday been driving a 2013 Peugeot auto this weekend and it has no P.
I’m used to driving all sorts of different autos and manuals and it feels natural to me to put any auto into P when parking - push the lever to the top (closest to the front of the car).
I did this in my horrible Peugeot while sitting in the car park, put it in P while waiting in the car park then started to get out and low and behold it started driving forwards mid me stepping out.
Turns out it’s not really an automatic it’s a crappy semi auto so the genius designers as Peugeot didn’t give it a P - I was using R as P, can imagine a few of these getting crashed when new?! French crap.
Funny this topic should come up as was only thinking similar yesterday been driving a 2013 Peugeot auto this weekend and it has no P.
I’m used to driving all sorts of different autos and manuals and it feels natural to me to put any auto into P when parking - push the lever to the top (closest to the front of the car).
I did this in my horrible Peugeot while sitting in the car park, put it in P while waiting in the car park then started to get out and low and behold it started driving forwards mid me stepping out.
Turns out it’s not really an automatic it’s a crappy semi auto so the genius designers as Peugeot didn’t give it a P - I was using R as P, can imagine a few of these getting crashed when new?! French crap.
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