RE: 2024 Porsche Taycan Turbo S | UK Review
Discussion
limpsfield said:
cerb4.5lee said:
For me you just can't love both, and threads like this one prove that. You either love ICE or you love EV, and obviously there isn't anything wrong with that to be fair. You just go with your own personal preference I think.
What a ridiculous statement! The football-isation of cars. Of course you can, unless you are a child which I don't think you are.I am 55 by the way.
Tesla, Jaguar FType, MX 5. All great cars for what they do.
I'm seriously passionate about engines though, so if you remove that, then I don't see what you have left in fairness. By removing the engine, you're ripping the heart and soul of the car out for me.
pheonix478 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
For me you just can't love both, and threads like this one prove that. You either love ICE or you love EV, and obviously there isn't anything wrong with that to be fair. You just go with your own personal preference I think.
What rubbish. Can someone love Ferrari and Rolls Royce? What is it you think they love about the Rolls? The engine?.ZesPak said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I personally wouldn't buy a Rolls-Royce without an engine, but it seems that I'm pretty much alone with that view to be fair.
Yep, can't think of many, if any, Rolls' that wouldn't benefit from electrification.cerb4.5lee said:
pheonix478 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
For me you just can't love both, and threads like this one prove that. You either love ICE or you love EV, and obviously there isn't anything wrong with that to be fair. You just go with your own personal preference I think.
What rubbish. Can someone love Ferrari and Rolls Royce? What is it you think they love about the Rolls? The engine?.You say you like engines but what actually does that mean? For instance do you understand the engineering design of differing types of engines?
cerb4.5lee said:
I did say "for me", and that is just my opinion on it. I can't understand how you can love both, and that just doesn't make sense in my head.
I'm seriously passionate about engines though, so if you remove that, then I don't see what you have left in fairness. By removing the engine, you're ripping the heart and soul of the car out for me.
It's still an incomprehensible premises for me. So you say you can't have fun on a zipline, or a bicycle? Never enjoyed a rollercoaster ride? You don't find trains impressive machinery?I'm seriously passionate about engines though, so if you remove that, then I don't see what you have left in fairness. By removing the engine, you're ripping the heart and soul of the car out for me.
If you ever get the opportunity, take a Zero (electric motorcycle) through the forest. I challenge you to not have a Cheshire grin all the time.
cerb4.5lee said:
I personally wouldn't buy a Rolls-Royce without an engine, but it seems that I'm pretty much alone with that view to be fair.
Yep, can't think of many, if any, Rolls' that wouldn't benefit from electrification.Nomme de Plum said:
cerb4.5lee said:
pheonix478 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
For me you just can't love both, and threads like this one prove that. You either love ICE or you love EV, and obviously there isn't anything wrong with that to be fair. You just go with your own personal preference I think.
What rubbish. Can someone love Ferrari and Rolls Royce? What is it you think they love about the Rolls? The engine?.You say you like engines but what actually does that mean? For instance do you understand the engineering design of differing types of engines?
cerb4.5lee said:
I definitely understand the quietness/smoothness thing don't get me wrong, but what I've always loved about the roller was that they always seemed to have a nice big engine in them, and I really like that about them.
You're on an island and there's not a lot of people on there.I can imagine this in the case of TVR, where the engine IS the car, but as someone else pointed out, the entire idea of Rolls and an S-class is that you shouldn't notice the engine, 9 or 10 speed gearboxes all to help that. Remember the Lexus LS ad with the glasses on the bonnet?
The Ariel Atom and Caterham come with so many different drivetrains, and they are great and fun in almost all of them. I'm convinced that an electric caterham would be a lot more fun and interesting to drive than 99% of the cars out there (ICE or EV), while giving some folks an aneurysm as a bonus.
Fastlane said:
HardMiles said:
Crikey, you lot are easily upset - all of your tampons must be on fire! 
Yes, I do understand how it all works, I actually sell cars for a living, but I do appreciate the talking down to, it must make you feel very high and mighty, nice one...
I will just leave you with this thought, some people on here may, just might be, PETROLHEADS, or PISTON HEADS, we like those things, difficult to imagine I know. You can microwave a burger quikcer, but I'llk take the BBQ'd one thanks gents.
And to denounce another ultimately dumb comment, "it was all about speed until EV's came along." No. No, it never was for everyone, the feel, the feedback, the joy cannot be measured in 0-60's and MPG. I'd still take a Frog Eye Sprite over all of the modern stuff, it isn't fast, but its endlessly enjoyable & it brings joy to others.
So, I'll get back in my box - but gents, you're wrong.
As a sales director of a classic car business, how sensible do you think it is being rude about people who drive EVs, when many of those people also own a classic or sports car and could therefore be a possible customer? Maybe run your posts via your business partners first...Yes, I do understand how it all works, I actually sell cars for a living, but I do appreciate the talking down to, it must make you feel very high and mighty, nice one...
I will just leave you with this thought, some people on here may, just might be, PETROLHEADS, or PISTON HEADS, we like those things, difficult to imagine I know. You can microwave a burger quikcer, but I'llk take the BBQ'd one thanks gents.
And to denounce another ultimately dumb comment, "it was all about speed until EV's came along." No. No, it never was for everyone, the feel, the feedback, the joy cannot be measured in 0-60's and MPG. I'd still take a Frog Eye Sprite over all of the modern stuff, it isn't fast, but its endlessly enjoyable & it brings joy to others.
So, I'll get back in my box - but gents, you're wrong.
My business partner has an EV he literally can't get rid of (he always wanted the new tech), I sell cars and look after them for raging petrolheads that absolutely love the passion we have for these old things and that runs through everything we do. So, in answer to previous questions, I do very well know how the EV purchases are made & also understand that they are no better for the planet & lose money like mad!
We do have customers with EV's they understand that I don't HAVE to love their other car, because they understand the difference too. They give the appreciating asset that they care about to us & the EV / Modern daily to the main dealer.
If you're upset by a passionate, driven guy who cares more about the cars in his shop than the vast majority of the motoring industry, then I can't help you - but virtually all of our reviews show that if you like cool cars, great service and coffee, then it's not a bad place to entrust your pride and joy.
If you want, come and have a coffee, I welcome all of you, I'd even put on a PH day - we all love cars, for differenet reasons, but my frustration is that to have a differing opinion than the "newest is best" scenario, is seen as totally incorrect, when in honesty it isn't. This forum all started from TVRs, the staple of real petrolheads, to which now, it has become the antethesis - where a washing machine on wheels is lauded over more than a V12... See my point too?
What you continually fail to understand is that is possible to be both a petrolhead and enjoy EV’s.
Most ice cars are competent at what they do but ultimately boring . Same with EV’s .
But this thread started talking about the Porsche Taycan which is the most competent daily I’ve ever run .
Would I want one as a weekend toy - honestly, I’d consider it.
But I wouldn’t want to run my toys as daily drivers .
How many of your customers would use what you sell ( I’ve looked and all very nice ) as a daily driver ? You sell toys.
Running a good ev as a daily makes a lot of sense .
Horses for courses .
Most ice cars are competent at what they do but ultimately boring . Same with EV’s .
But this thread started talking about the Porsche Taycan which is the most competent daily I’ve ever run .
Would I want one as a weekend toy - honestly, I’d consider it.
But I wouldn’t want to run my toys as daily drivers .
How many of your customers would use what you sell ( I’ve looked and all very nice ) as a daily driver ? You sell toys.
Running a good ev as a daily makes a lot of sense .
Horses for courses .
ds666 said:
What you continually fail to understand is that is possible to be both a petrolhead and enjoy EV’s.
Most ice cars are competent at what they do but ultimately boring . Same with EV’s .
But this thread started talking about the Porsche Taycan which is the most competent daily I’ve ever run .
Would I want one as a weekend toy - honestly, I’d consider it.
But I wouldn’t want to run my toys as daily drivers .
How many of your customers would use what you sell ( I’ve looked and all very nice ) as a daily driver ? You sell toys.
Running a good ev as a daily makes a lot of sense .
Horses for courses .
Exactly. It shouldn't be this hard to understand. It's a proper 4 seat comfortable road car. The fact it can pull most ICE cars pants down on the road as an added bonus seems to upset people who like noisy 2 seat sports cars. Most people realise you can have both, except, apparently, car experts on PH.Most ice cars are competent at what they do but ultimately boring . Same with EV’s .
But this thread started talking about the Porsche Taycan which is the most competent daily I’ve ever run .
Would I want one as a weekend toy - honestly, I’d consider it.
But I wouldn’t want to run my toys as daily drivers .
How many of your customers would use what you sell ( I’ve looked and all very nice ) as a daily driver ? You sell toys.
Running a good ev as a daily makes a lot of sense .
Horses for courses .
cerb4.5lee said:
pheonix478 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
For me you just can't love both, and threads like this one prove that. You either love ICE or you love EV, and obviously there isn't anything wrong with that to be fair. You just go with your own personal preference I think.
What rubbish. Can someone love Ferrari and Rolls Royce? What is it you think they love about the Rolls? The engine?.HardMiles said:
also understand that they are no better for the planet
I have a car history that includes modern and classic 4 cylinder, straight 6s, V8s and V12s, naturally-aspired, turbo-charged and super-charged.I love cars, especially interesting ones, and in that respect I would say we are alike.
I also happen to have an engineering career in the evolution and electrification of powertrains and energy systems.
Electrification and energy efficiency is a fundamental building block of the machinery and systems that support our entire modern society.
And by entire society I mean things like aircraft, ships, trains, compressors, turbines, power generators, HVAC equipment, trucks, buses and of course cars.
Almost every one of these applications has benefitted from lower operating costs, lower 'planetary' impact, less noise, less vibration, higher reliability, lower mass (yes...) and a significantly better lifetime ownership prospect through the use of more advanced electrification.
In many cases, this includes elimination or simplification of legacy mechanical/thermal systems e.g. gearing, combustion, power transmission.
As a car enthusiast and someone who is, at heart, a mechanical engineer, I don't see electrification as a threat, I see it as an opportunity.
An opportunity to take the heat off mechanical systems where they don't offer the best technological solution, leaving the ones where they do to prosper.
I see electrification of cars as a renewed lease of life for interesting petrol cars, particularly existing ones, I see the threat to diesel cars and I see the threat to petrol cars where the contents under the bonnet matter to no-one.
What I also know is that products owned and used by people in their billions across the planet that involve combustion, noxious and other emissions, gearboxes, massive heat loss, noise, complex lubrication and cooling, relatively high maintenance and everything that is part and parcel of a vehicle with an engine will always lose out big time when judged on their environmental credentials.
The statement you made above is demonstrably untrue, and not just for cars.
The same applies for all the other applications I listed as well.
I don't know if you are making it because it's a convenient throwaway line to write off something you don't like or if you genuinely believe it.
Either way, as car enthusiasts I think we need to make peace with the inevitability of electrification of cars.
This inevitability is not something a person or persons decided.
It's locked up in the science and maths that are universally immutable, its something mother nature or the universe decided, take your pick.
You've already made peace with the inevitability of electrification by happily existing for the last 50 years or more and not kicking up a fuss about everything else that's been electrified, and now that it's the turn for transportation (to the extent that is possible with today's technology) and in particular, cars, why are we fighting that?
Especially if what is effectively happening right now is that EVs are displacing old diesel cars (particularly in the UK) and taking the heat off petrol, old and new.
Yes, eventually, the turn of new petrol cars and older less interesting petrol cars will come, and maybe there will be some alternative ways to avoid 100% electrification of new cars.
What is almost certain though is that most new cars will eventually have to be directly electrified.
And what is also certain is that these cars will have a lower lifetime 'planetary' impact than what came before them.
ds666 said:
What you continually fail to understand is that is possible to be both a petrolhead and enjoy EV’s.
Most ice cars are competent at what they do but ultimately boring . Same with EV’s .
But this thread started talking about the Porsche Taycan which is the most competent daily I’ve ever run .
Would I want one as a weekend toy - honestly, I’d consider it.
But I wouldn’t want to run my toys as daily drivers .
How many of your customers would use what you sell ( I’ve looked and all very nice ) as a daily driver ? You sell toys.
Running a good ev as a daily makes a lot of sense .
Horses for courses .
Gotcha, Most ice cars are competent at what they do but ultimately boring . Same with EV’s .
But this thread started talking about the Porsche Taycan which is the most competent daily I’ve ever run .
Would I want one as a weekend toy - honestly, I’d consider it.
But I wouldn’t want to run my toys as daily drivers .
How many of your customers would use what you sell ( I’ve looked and all very nice ) as a daily driver ? You sell toys.
Running a good ev as a daily makes a lot of sense .
Horses for courses .
Personally I've never been priveledged enough to have both, but understand a lot of people are. I still consider it a toy due to the outright pace I suppose, but as alavish daily, it does make more sense!
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