RE: Jaguar quietly winds up new cars for UK market
Discussion
Freakuk said:
Why have Porsche just spent millions developing a 6 stroke engine if the ICE engine is doomed for the history books?
Porsche must know/hope that EV is not the single answer here, for Jaguar to put all their eggs into the EV basket with knowledge that every car manufacturer is slowing down EV development and sales as it's falling off a cliff currently just seems incredibly stupid or naive of them.
On the face of it it certainly looks like the wrong decision and the death knell for Jaguar.
Porsche might just be making that new engine for an exclusive halo car or for markets with a later ban on ICEs. Even in Europe, there's another 10 years to be manufactring and selling vehicles with ICEs so a few million spent on an engine that has some kind of USP could quickly recoup the development cost if it catches on.Porsche must know/hope that EV is not the single answer here, for Jaguar to put all their eggs into the EV basket with knowledge that every car manufacturer is slowing down EV development and sales as it's falling off a cliff currently just seems incredibly stupid or naive of them.
On the face of it it certainly looks like the wrong decision and the death knell for Jaguar.
Thats what's initially so weird about Jag fully committing to EV so soon when there's a decade of ICE sales still to be had. Possibly so that they can strip-down their old sites and prep them for efficient new production lines without the overhead of running and staffing ICE and EV production sites in parallel? Hopefully this means that they'll re-train the staff and also use them for site-prep prior to vehicle production.
f
king tragic.
I don't want an SUV. I don't want an EV.
I want a V8 GT in coupe, saloon or estate form.
Jaguar were absolutely brilliant at building those over the decades.
I can still remember reading the Car test with the original XJR up against the 1st gen E55 and the contemporary M5.
In fact I've still got the magazine somewhere as that was such an iconic test for me. 25 years ago I was hugely excited about the cars that I would own one day, the epic journeys I'd do in them and the awesome soundtrack that would accompany me.
Now? Would you like to take an electric mum truck through Glencoe and up in the Highlands? Err....no thanks. I have some drying paint I'd rather watch.
king tragic. I don't want an SUV. I don't want an EV.
I want a V8 GT in coupe, saloon or estate form.
Jaguar were absolutely brilliant at building those over the decades.
I can still remember reading the Car test with the original XJR up against the 1st gen E55 and the contemporary M5.
In fact I've still got the magazine somewhere as that was such an iconic test for me. 25 years ago I was hugely excited about the cars that I would own one day, the epic journeys I'd do in them and the awesome soundtrack that would accompany me.
Now? Would you like to take an electric mum truck through Glencoe and up in the Highlands? Err....no thanks. I have some drying paint I'd rather watch.
cartart said:
Just get them to reproduce a modern version of the E-Type, same look and everything underneath/inside ultru modern.
I'll be first in the - long - queue!!!
I doubt they'd be able to compete with BMW when it came to ugly cars... I'll be first in the - long - queue!!!
This is very sad news - goodbye Jaguar, and thankyou.
AC43 said:
I want a V8 GT in coupe, saloon or estate form.
Its a discussion I've had with them when I've been at car launches or even when I'm in for a service. Since they dropped the V8 in the XF range there is no car for me. I have one of the last XFRs from new, its nearly 10 years old and they have not had a car to sell me in all that time. Utterly stupid and the sales guys both corporate and dealership all agreed.Justin-ow582 said:
Porsche might just be making that new engine for an exclusive halo car or for markets with a later ban on ICEs. Even in Europe, there's another 10 years to be manufactring and selling vehicles with ICEs so a few million spent on an engine that has some kind of USP could quickly recoup the development cost if it catches on.
Thats what's initially so weird about Jag fully committing to EV so soon when there's a decade of ICE sales still to be had. Possibly so that they can strip-down their old sites and prep them for efficient new production lines without the overhead of running and staffing ICE and EV production sites in parallel? Hopefully this means that they'll re-train the staff and also use them for site-prep prior to vehicle production.
I think if you have an existing profitable ICE business, then as you say there's no reason to wind it down any earlier than you have to, you just want to build up an EV business line alongside it to be ready for the future. Porsche and Land Rover are in this situation, and are riding both horses as you say.Thats what's initially so weird about Jag fully committing to EV so soon when there's a decade of ICE sales still to be had. Possibly so that they can strip-down their old sites and prep them for efficient new production lines without the overhead of running and staffing ICE and EV production sites in parallel? Hopefully this means that they'll re-train the staff and also use them for site-prep prior to vehicle production.
However Jaguar doesn't have a profitable ICE business, and hasn't done for donkey's years. If your current business is loss-making then you may as well shut it down today. It's not worth trying to re-boot an ICE business now as the new investment couldn't be repaid before 2030. Thus if you're a chronically money-losing brand today, it makes more sense to abandon your loss-making business and build anew in the future-proofed EV market. If you're really lucky you may even gain an advantage by committing early.
Having said all that, personally I would have thought they would be better to keep selling the F-Type, F-Pace and I-Pace for break-even pricing, even in fairly small numbers, they're at least cars that some people like and desire and are respected in the market. Then you get to say 31st Dec 2025 and have an 'overnight changeover' to the all-new all-electric model range. I don't buy the idea that it's 'better' in marketing terms to disappear than to keep selling existing fairly well-regarded models.
Having owned 2 Ftypes I am, or was, a Jag fan so find it concerning they have stopped making sports or sporty cars . The only way Jaguar will succeed is if they make electric cars that are sporty and elegant in a way the E Type and Ftype were in their day . Customers will need to look at one and feel they have to have one. I can see a case for an electric 4 door GT but it has to stir the emotions in a way the Porsche Taycan and Audi GT just don't. My current daily is an Audi GT and as good as it is , it doesn't have soul , its a device to get from A to B quickly and lacks any real charisma. Maybe soul and charisma are at odds with the electric era , sad if so
Freakuk said:
Why have Porsche just spent millions developing a 6 stroke engine if the ICE engine is doomed for the history books?
The first patent related to 6-stroke engines dates back to 1915.There are subsequent patents dated 1976, 1988, 1990, 2001, 2003, 2012, amongst others.
I personally wouldn't be reading too much into the idea its going to 'save' ICEs.
kambites said:
I can understand them stopping production at the Birmingham plant in order to retool for the FEA platform, but it seems odd to keep Solihull producing the F-pace for export but not the domestic market.
Maybe there’s no profit in keeping RHD production going, particularly if any demand can be diverted to the equivalent Land Rover. Also no point in selling an ICE when you’ve got no electric offering to offset it.
soxboy said:
Maybe there’s no profit in keeping RHD production going, particularly if any demand can be diverted to the equivalent Land Rover.
Also no point in selling an ICE when you’ve got no electric offering to offset it.
Yes, they'd be locking in £4,200 (28% of £15k) onto every vehicle they sold as ZEV Mandate fees, plus they'd all be attracting pretty high levels of first year VED as announced yesterday, so call it £6k or so into the list price. Plus their range isn't exactly fresh as it is - quitting while they're not too far behind the competition might well be the best option.Also no point in selling an ICE when you’ve got no electric offering to offset it.
What a load of drama and presumably very few of the comments here are by people that have been reading the motoring press (and here) for the last three years.
Jaguar is a brand within JLR so there is no huge behemoth of a company doing bugger all for a year - the company is carrying on making and selling Land Rovers and Range Rovers as well as developing the well telegraphed new Jaguars. The new brand concept is about to be launched and there will be plenty of hullabaloo when the new product arrives.
Jaguar is a brand within JLR so there is no huge behemoth of a company doing bugger all for a year - the company is carrying on making and selling Land Rovers and Range Rovers as well as developing the well telegraphed new Jaguars. The new brand concept is about to be launched and there will be plenty of hullabaloo when the new product arrives.
Dombilano said:
For a company of this size to effectively hibernate for over a year is bonkers.
Is it because they'll be fined for non EV sales, and it's cheaper to just shut up shop? I'm sure the accountants will have a justifiable rationale.
Don't disagree its bonkers, there was a thread on this subject some time ago and it quoted the boss or an exec of Jaguar suggesting that the axed models "didn't make any money anyway", so possibly a case of shall we continue making cars and losing mony or just not make them and therefore not lose any money ?Is it because they'll be fined for non EV sales, and it's cheaper to just shut up shop? I'm sure the accountants will have a justifiable rationale.
If they are still to make cars for other markets are they sticking to LHD and abandoning RHD ?
Either way, would be buyers are going to go to other brands, when (if) they come back what are they going to offer to persuade punters back to the new models ?
ettore said:
What a load of drama and presumably very few of the comments here are by people that have been reading the motoring press (and here) for the last three years.
Jaguar is a brand within JLR so there is no huge behemoth of a company doing bugger all for a year - the company is carrying on making and selling Land Rovers and Range Rovers as well as developing the well telegraphed new Jaguars. The new brand concept is about to be launched and there will be plenty of hullabaloo when the new product arrives.
I've been keeping track on here and online. I still don't think the new Jags will materialise. If by some miracle they do, I think they will tank as high end luxury EVs.Jaguar is a brand within JLR so there is no huge behemoth of a company doing bugger all for a year - the company is carrying on making and selling Land Rovers and Range Rovers as well as developing the well telegraphed new Jaguars. The new brand concept is about to be launched and there will be plenty of hullabaloo when the new product arrives.
Slow to realise premium brand cabins can’t be a mish-mash of parts bin tat – eg, a Transit / Fiesta key ‘ole in an XJ (X350), etc, etc.
Slow to realise its cars needed a customer base beyond retired Miami dentists and Eastbourne OAPs.
Late to the diesel party.
Late to the SUV party.
Late to the EV party.
And now, it seems, late for its own funeral? Prove me wrong, please.
Slow to realise its cars needed a customer base beyond retired Miami dentists and Eastbourne OAPs.
Late to the diesel party.
Late to the SUV party.
Late to the EV party.
And now, it seems, late for its own funeral? Prove me wrong, please.
NGK210 said:
Slow to realise premium brand cabins can’t be a mish-mash of parts bin tat – eg, a Transit / Fiesta key ‘ole in an XJ (X350), etc, etc.
Slow to realise its cars needed a customer base beyond retired Miami dentists and Eastbourne OAPs.
Late to the diesel party.
Late to the SUV party.
Late to the EV party.
And now, it seems, late for its own funeral? Prove me wrong, please.
+1 Slow to realise its cars needed a customer base beyond retired Miami dentists and Eastbourne OAPs.
Late to the diesel party.
Late to the SUV party.
Late to the EV party.
And now, it seems, late for its own funeral? Prove me wrong, please.
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