Discussion
GeniusOfLove said:
Tommo87 said:
Panamax said:
There's "service history" and there's "service history".
If it's a neat row of main dealer stamps in a book you can contact the dealer network and get it all verified. Good stuff.
If it's random stamps in a book it's not worth very much at all, unless backed up by a nice sheaf of invoices. That's what you really want to see.
Agree with this now that main dealer history is digital.If it's a neat row of main dealer stamps in a book you can contact the dealer network and get it all verified. Good stuff.
If it's random stamps in a book it's not worth very much at all, unless backed up by a nice sheaf of invoices. That's what you really want to see.
Even that ‘I’ know that a good Independent specialist is probably better than a main dealer, the next buyer may not and they WILL choose the identical car with main dealer history, even if it is more expensive and out of warranty.
It always amuses me to see a middle aged car, usually a Porsche SUV or a BMW, with £20k of options sell for £15k, or a 13 year old car with FMDSH sell for less than the difference in cost between that dealer servicing and a decent garage.
Some buyers ask about service history, almost none ever actually look at it. The sort of mithering knobber who won't view a car because he wants FMDSH vs FSH is a buyer you don't want anyway and once someone has viewed and driven the car it will sell on it's condition today rather than who changed the oil (or didn't) in 2016. You'll always find buyers who will cheerfully buy the one with no history, four bald ditchfinders, and a slight smell of piss if it's £50 less than another one that looks like it rolled out of the factory yesterday too.
It's one of those things that is nice to have because who doesn't want a car some moron has lavished money on, but nobody will actually pay any more for it but outside of PHers with their car autism nobody cares.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Tuesday 19th November 11:33
I just want to go and look at a clean car that has obviously been cared for, that has evidence of the oil being changed and an owner that makes the right noises, most other stuff I dont care about. A wadge of bills and two keys are good as well.
Whether it was someone at a main dealer, dont care, took my year old BMW M135i back to Bluebell in Wilmslow for an oil change to keep the warranty, intact, went for some breakfast and on the walk back saw my car come sideways out of the road next door to the dealership ! That tends to dent your opinion of main dealers, took my mother in laws car in there as well and the service guy was a complete supercilious prick more interested in schmoozing the young girl he was training
Any monkey can change oil, and to be honest serviced on the button isnt even that great as manufacturers tend to skimp to appeal to fleet managers, 20 and two years is too long, give me someone who does his own and knows his stuff, talks my language, knows that his car needs specific oil and not just anything.
What about owner maintained FSH?
When I’m servicing my car, I’ll do other ancillary stuff ‘whilst I’m under there’.
An oil change might involve greasing the bonnet springs or oiling the rubber door seals ahead of a cold snap.
I once bought a 20-year old car from a home mechanic. It had wax oil on door hinges and fasteners under the bonnet. Did he have a stamped book? No. But the engine oil was light brown, the screen wash a deep blue and the coolant horribly bitter.
When I’m servicing my car, I’ll do other ancillary stuff ‘whilst I’m under there’.
An oil change might involve greasing the bonnet springs or oiling the rubber door seals ahead of a cold snap.
I once bought a 20-year old car from a home mechanic. It had wax oil on door hinges and fasteners under the bonnet. Did he have a stamped book? No. But the engine oil was light brown, the screen wash a deep blue and the coolant horribly bitter.
Edited by Moodyman1 on Tuesday 19th November 12:07
Edited by Moodyman1 on Tuesday 19th November 12:13
Last week I bought unseen a high mileage ex-rental car with absolutely zero paperwork. Even the floor mats were missing. Interior lights don't work but other than that it all looks new.
I relied on the distance selling rules - I could have sent it back for a full refund. I have also assumed that a rental car will have had regular inspections.
I relied on the distance selling rules - I could have sent it back for a full refund. I have also assumed that a rental car will have had regular inspections.
Panamax said:
There's "service history" and there's "service history".
If it's a neat row of main dealer stamps in a book you can contact the dealer network and get it all verified. Good stuff.
If it's random stamps in a book it's not worth very much at all, unless backed up by a nice sheaf of invoices. That's what you really want to see.
I'd agree with this and to the point where a book full of stamps doesn't really register with me unless it is backed up by invoices. It's very easy to obtain a stamped book and it's also quite easy to visit a dealer / garage annually and simply decline all work that they've highlighted. So all these classifieds that say "FSH" I'd never ever assume that was the sign of a cherished and fastidiously maintained car. If it's a neat row of main dealer stamps in a book you can contact the dealer network and get it all verified. Good stuff.
If it's random stamps in a book it's not worth very much at all, unless backed up by a nice sheaf of invoices. That's what you really want to see.
See also "Recently MOT with no advises"
Wonder if those peddling the 'indies are always way cheaper and better than main dealers' mantra in terms of servicing are aware of the dubious servicing practices of e.g. the main well known car supermarkets who sell largely ex rental tat promoting them with full service history many cars of which are never serviced at all for the first 2/3 years and might receive an oil change with incorrect generic cheap oil leaving the original filter in place if you are lucky...what could possibly go wrong for the buyer say 12 months down the line lol. Needlesss to say no change of brake fluid pollen filter fuel filter air filter etc etc if required....its not their problem 
GDPR regs online servicing details online buying covid and V5s omitting to record the last owner have of course increasingly promoted the lack of servicing of used cars but there is a very good reason why one owner fmdsh cars consistently obtain the highest prices at auction because all other things being equal they are the cars buyers will pay the most for.
Try selling or getting an official warranty on say a two
four six year old Porsche without a fmdsh btw....
GDPR regs online servicing details online buying covid and V5s omitting to record the last owner have of course increasingly promoted the lack of servicing of used cars but there is a very good reason why one owner fmdsh cars consistently obtain the highest prices at auction because all other things being equal they are the cars buyers will pay the most for.
Try selling or getting an official warranty on say a two
four six year old Porsche without a fmdsh btw....
av185 said:
Wonder if those peddling the 'indies are always way cheaper and better than main dealers' mantra in terms of servicing are aware of the dubious servicing practices of e.g. the main well known car supermarkets who sell largely ex rental tat promoting them with full service history many cars of which are never serviced at all for the first 2/3 years and might receive an oil change with incorrect generic cheap oil leaving the original filter in place if you are lucky...what could possibly go wrong for the buyer say 12 months down the line lol. Needlesss to say no change of brake fluid pollen filter fuel filter air filter etc etc if required....its not their problem
GDPR regs online servicing details online buying covid and V5s omitting to record the last owner have of course increasingly promoted the lack of servicing of used cars but there is a very good reason why one owner fmdsh cars consistently obtain the highest prices at auction because all other things being equal they are the cars buyers will pay the most for.
Try selling or getting an official warranty on say a two
four six year old Porsche without a fmdsh btw....
You do sometimes come across as a bit superior AV, "ex rental tat", thats the kind of cars that most people in this country have to buy, because thats all they can afford, then you start rattling on about Porsches. Just reads as "Poor people buy rubbish I wouldn't piss on, I am of course considerably richer than yow, and enjoy the finer things". GDPR regs online servicing details online buying covid and V5s omitting to record the last owner have of course increasingly promoted the lack of servicing of used cars but there is a very good reason why one owner fmdsh cars consistently obtain the highest prices at auction because all other things being equal they are the cars buyers will pay the most for.
Try selling or getting an official warranty on say a two
four six year old Porsche without a fmdsh btw....
A 911 and say a Corsa are wildly different propositions, one is likely sub 10k, the other is likely over 100 so of course there are different criteria applied as the stakes are higher and the clientele perhaps more discerning/fussy.
But at the end of the day, every car, whatever it is should have the correct servicing, whoever does it if you want longevity and correct operation, whoever does it.
I do my own, at least on our pair of 10 year old Fiestas, including cabin filters, oil, air filters, plugs, coolant, brake fluid, but not necessarily on the same day, always think its a bit arbitrary doing it all at the same time, thats mainly down to convenience as its in being worked on, when you do it yourself you can tick stuff off as you think it needs doing which may be more, or less frequent than the interval, for instance, have a look at the air filter, is it still clean, then leave it another six months. Always think a lot of perfectly good stuff gets binned, then people drive round for years old the same cabin filter wonder why their car smells a bit swampy.
Some consideration also needs to be given to whether you, as the new owner, would like to apply a manufacturers extended warranty to the vehicle.
Not sure if it's unique to LR but any car with less than spot on main dealer service history will fail at the first hurdle during their pre-warranty inspection and be rejected for manufacturer extended warranty.
Ask me how I know..
..My own LR bought not too long ago had one service (in an otherwise perfect FMDSH) done by an out of franchise and non approved specialist dealer as it sat on their forecourt for a few months. All done as per the recommendations for the age/ mileage relevant service but the dealer could not or did not update the online service history. As far as the manufacturer is concerned, it didn't happen as it's not logged on their online portal which is fair enough I suppose.
Not sure if it's unique to LR but any car with less than spot on main dealer service history will fail at the first hurdle during their pre-warranty inspection and be rejected for manufacturer extended warranty.
Ask me how I know..
..My own LR bought not too long ago had one service (in an otherwise perfect FMDSH) done by an out of franchise and non approved specialist dealer as it sat on their forecourt for a few months. All done as per the recommendations for the age/ mileage relevant service but the dealer could not or did not update the online service history. As far as the manufacturer is concerned, it didn't happen as it's not logged on their online portal which is fair enough I suppose.
Most of my cars have been 5+ years old.
I service these myself & keep the receipts for parts, hand writing in the service book what work was done.
Selling these cars most people accept that this is evidence that a car has been fully serviced according to the manufacturer’s recommendations. A FSH.
Twice someone has tried to argue that this wasn’t a FSH.
They asked for lots of money off because of this & I bid them good day as they were at liberty to not buy the car.
To be honest those sort of people are the sort you don’t want to sell a car to as they invariably come back with further ‘issues’ later.
We Buy Any Car’s guidance says that what I do counts as a ‘Partial Service History’ as I am not a VAT registered garage.
https://www.webuyanycar.com/guides/selling-and-buy...
Which is fair enough as they don’t know if I’m any good at servicing my car or not.
In all honesty cars are a depreciating asset (they could even be argued to be a liability!).
When you are going to loose >£5k per annum in depreciation & running costs the spending of more money on services with a main dealer are purely limiting your liability. If I were not capable & had a newer car I’d find a VAT registered garage & do it as cheaply as possibly.
I service these myself & keep the receipts for parts, hand writing in the service book what work was done.
Selling these cars most people accept that this is evidence that a car has been fully serviced according to the manufacturer’s recommendations. A FSH.
Twice someone has tried to argue that this wasn’t a FSH.
They asked for lots of money off because of this & I bid them good day as they were at liberty to not buy the car.
To be honest those sort of people are the sort you don’t want to sell a car to as they invariably come back with further ‘issues’ later.
We Buy Any Car’s guidance says that what I do counts as a ‘Partial Service History’ as I am not a VAT registered garage.
https://www.webuyanycar.com/guides/selling-and-buy...
Which is fair enough as they don’t know if I’m any good at servicing my car or not.
In all honesty cars are a depreciating asset (they could even be argued to be a liability!).
When you are going to loose >£5k per annum in depreciation & running costs the spending of more money on services with a main dealer are purely limiting your liability. If I were not capable & had a newer car I’d find a VAT registered garage & do it as cheaply as possibly.
Stick Legs said:
Most of my cars have been 5+ years old.
I service these myself & keep the receipts for parts, hand writing in the service book what work was done.
Selling these cars most people accept that this is evidence that a car has been fully serviced according to the manufacturer’s recommendations. A FSH.
Twice someone has tried to argue that this wasn’t a FSH.
They asked for lots of money off because of this & I bid them good day as they were at liberty to not buy the car.
To be honest those sort of people are the sort you don’t want to sell a car to as they invariably come back with further ‘issues’ later.
We Buy Any Car’s guidance says that what I do counts as a ‘Partial Service History’ as I am not a VAT registered garage.
https://www.webuyanycar.com/guides/selling-and-buy...
Which is fair enough as they don’t know if I’m any good at servicing my car or not.
In all honesty cars are a depreciating asset (they could even be argued to be a liability!).
When you are going to loose >£5k per annum in depreciation & running costs the spending of more money on services with a main dealer are purely limiting your liability. If I were not capable & had a newer car I’d find a VAT registered garage & do it as cheaply as possibly.
The sound of sound chap you want as a buyer would rather what you have than stamps from a main dealer I think, it implies a degree of intelligence and mechanical sympathy that would notice and fix problems rather than just drive the car until it stops.I service these myself & keep the receipts for parts, hand writing in the service book what work was done.
Selling these cars most people accept that this is evidence that a car has been fully serviced according to the manufacturer’s recommendations. A FSH.
Twice someone has tried to argue that this wasn’t a FSH.
They asked for lots of money off because of this & I bid them good day as they were at liberty to not buy the car.
To be honest those sort of people are the sort you don’t want to sell a car to as they invariably come back with further ‘issues’ later.
We Buy Any Car’s guidance says that what I do counts as a ‘Partial Service History’ as I am not a VAT registered garage.
https://www.webuyanycar.com/guides/selling-and-buy...
Which is fair enough as they don’t know if I’m any good at servicing my car or not.
In all honesty cars are a depreciating asset (they could even be argued to be a liability!).
When you are going to loose >£5k per annum in depreciation & running costs the spending of more money on services with a main dealer are purely limiting your liability. If I were not capable & had a newer car I’d find a VAT registered garage & do it as cheaply as possibly.
As you say, some buyers you don't want to sell to anyway.
Depends largely on the car.
Dealer service history = a known minimum standard has been met.
Independent service history = could well be a higher standard, could equally be a total chancer with a backstreet lockup. You need to sift through all the records to see who has done what.
For most cars dealer history is just easier to deal with.
Dealer service history = a known minimum standard has been met.
Independent service history = could well be a higher standard, could equally be a total chancer with a backstreet lockup. You need to sift through all the records to see who has done what.
For most cars dealer history is just easier to deal with.
It depends on the car to an extent, if I was buying a perhaps a car that would be an enthusiasts car. For me I guess an AMG or M car for example, I'd want either a dealer history or a specialist. My CLS63 has a dealership service history, the last owner used a specialist and I used a different specialist until I moved last year.
For an ordinary car, I'd ideally love a wad of receipts along with stamps in the book. My Saab 9-3 convertible was exactly that, a great pile of history, stamps every year etc.
Stamps aren't always indicative of a service but if it's an actual stamp from a garage, there is no reason to assume it wasn't done. I've actually filled parts in on my Saab history but purely as I have digital receipts I've printed to coincide with keeping the book up to date.
For an ordinary car, I'd ideally love a wad of receipts along with stamps in the book. My Saab 9-3 convertible was exactly that, a great pile of history, stamps every year etc.
Stamps aren't always indicative of a service but if it's an actual stamp from a garage, there is no reason to assume it wasn't done. I've actually filled parts in on my Saab history but purely as I have digital receipts I've printed to coincide with keeping the book up to date.
I bought a 12 year old Alfa privately (som eyears back)
First three years all done at supplying dealer
Regularly serviced annually at a very well known marque specialist and receipts/invoices for literally every single bit of expenditure..... including petrol receipts with the mileage on.
Two whole box folders full and in meticulous date order.
Quite remarkable.
First three years all done at supplying dealer
Regularly serviced annually at a very well known marque specialist and receipts/invoices for literally every single bit of expenditure..... including petrol receipts with the mileage on.
Two whole box folders full and in meticulous date order.
Quite remarkable.
I'm not sure what people even expect to see when they say they want FSH anymore.
I have a 2015 Skoda that has no service book - the only evidence of the earliest services I have is a a4 paper printout from Skoda that came with the car, & my invoices since then. Which as it's technically on the 'variable servicing' schedule are very sporadic anyway, up to 2yrs apart.
I did type them all into Excel so I guess I can print that out as the evidence.
Can I proudly sell this as having "FSH"?
I have a 2015 Skoda that has no service book - the only evidence of the earliest services I have is a a4 paper printout from Skoda that came with the car, & my invoices since then. Which as it's technically on the 'variable servicing' schedule are very sporadic anyway, up to 2yrs apart.
I did type them all into Excel so I guess I can print that out as the evidence.
Can I proudly sell this as having "FSH"?
J4CKO said:
av185 said:
Wonder if those peddling the 'indies are always way cheaper and better than main dealers' mantra in terms of servicing are aware of the dubious servicing practices of e.g. the main well known car supermarkets who sell largely ex rental tat promoting them with full service history many cars of which are never serviced at all for the first 2/3 years and might receive an oil change with incorrect generic cheap oil leaving the original filter in place if you are lucky...what could possibly go wrong for the buyer say 12 months down the line lol. Needlesss to say no change of brake fluid pollen filter fuel filter air filter etc etc if required....its not their problem
GDPR regs online servicing details online buying covid and V5s omitting to record the last owner have of course increasingly promoted the lack of servicing of used cars but there is a very good reason why one owner fmdsh cars consistently obtain the highest prices at auction because all other things being equal they are the cars buyers will pay the most for.
Try selling or getting an official warranty on say a two
four six year old Porsche without a fmdsh btw....
You do sometimes come across as a bit superior AV, "ex rental tat", thats the kind of cars that most people in this country have to buy, because thats all they can afford, then you start rattling on about Porsches. Just reads as "Poor people buy rubbish I wouldn't piss on, I am of course considerably richer than yow, and enjoy the finer things". GDPR regs online servicing details online buying covid and V5s omitting to record the last owner have of course increasingly promoted the lack of servicing of used cars but there is a very good reason why one owner fmdsh cars consistently obtain the highest prices at auction because all other things being equal they are the cars buyers will pay the most for.
Try selling or getting an official warranty on say a two
four six year old Porsche without a fmdsh btw....
A 911 and say a Corsa are wildly different propositions, one is likely sub 10k, the other is likely over 100 so of course there are different criteria applied as the stakes are higher and the clientele perhaps more discerning/fussy.
But at the end of the day, every car, whatever it is should have the correct servicing, whoever does it if you want longevity and correct operation, whoever does it.
I do my own, at least on our pair of 10 year old Fiestas, including cabin filters, oil, air filters, plugs, coolant, brake fluid, but not necessarily on the same day, always think its a bit arbitrary doing it all at the same time, thats mainly down to convenience as its in being worked on, when you do it yourself you can tick stuff off as you think it needs doing which may be more, or less frequent than the interval, for instance, have a look at the air filter, is it still clean, then leave it another six months. Always think a lot of perfectly good stuff gets binned, then people drive round for years old the same cabin filter wonder why their car smells a bit swampy.
effectively invalidate the warranty but would only come to light when there are issues several years down the line and many buyers are taken in by the bright lights and marketing guff for sure and are totally unaware of this.
I think this debate will differ from Manufacturer, Car, Age and mileage.
Expecting or looking for a main dealer history on 15 year old Focus probably isn't a realistic ask but on a three year old Kia / Toyota with a balance of Manufacturer warranty, definitely.
If a car is well beyond warranty I really don't see the problem with reputable indies and a stack of receipts to back it up.
If I could still take my current fun car to my mates to do the oil and filters in between the main dealer services, I would but the current car is a PITA to do an oil change on.
I appreciate that everyone has different criteria and some would only buy a car with main dealer service stamps etc
Expecting or looking for a main dealer history on 15 year old Focus probably isn't a realistic ask but on a three year old Kia / Toyota with a balance of Manufacturer warranty, definitely.
If a car is well beyond warranty I really don't see the problem with reputable indies and a stack of receipts to back it up.
If I could still take my current fun car to my mates to do the oil and filters in between the main dealer services, I would but the current car is a PITA to do an oil change on.
I appreciate that everyone has different criteria and some would only buy a car with main dealer service stamps etc
Stick Legs said:
We Buy Any Car’s guidance says that what I do counts as a ‘Partial Service History’ as I am not a VAT registered garage.
https://www.webuyanycar.com/guides/selling-and-buy...
Which is fair enough as they don’t know if I’m any good at servicing my car or not.
Tbh I don't really understand what they accept as service history.https://www.webuyanycar.com/guides/selling-and-buy...
Which is fair enough as they don’t know if I’m any good at servicing my car or not.
It mentions about invoices from a VAT registered garage, but then mentions digital service records. They believe these come from "Any independent garage that is registered with the Independent Garage Association (IGA)" - which is simply not true.
VW, Skoda, and Audi for example... anyone can create a company account and add to the digital service record. So would they accept this as full service history?
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