Discussion
kambites said:
Ultimately the main difference between an independent garage and a main dealer is that the main dealer has given the manufacturer some money. Some manufacturers actually vet their dealers to make sure they're providing decent service but I think the huge majority do not.
I know which German brand audit and send in "secret customer" cars to test dealers. IME they borrow customers cars from other areas. Will fit a defective part that there is a "known fix" for. (eg a light unit that the fix is to do a software update) Then send it in. In exchange the customer gets a nice financial inducement. THe audits are good as it makes dealers ensure they train their staff appropraitely, and also have the correct special tools on handI also know which German brand dont do anything of the sort and the service and quality of those dealers is frankly shocking! And if I was to tell you, you'd be amazed that such a brand wouldn't give a s
t!The biggest problem now in main dealer land is that there's very, very few good techs about. Most dealers are now 80% s
t who can spin filters and lie about upsell. But cant actually diagnose a problem beyond "pad warning light on" But due to the stupid bonus structures. The dealers ENCOURAGE that and its about who can churn out the most work in the least time. And who cares if they cut corners by not fiting parts!Its NOT who can churn out the BEST work quality for the customer!
The pay is generally bad for the hours. Why do Techs need to do 8am to 6pm. Just an easy way to burn people out, especially when they stand up ALL day. And if you care about doing a good job for the customer you'll earn less at month end that the wnaker who just rips off the customers with spurious/unrequired work.
Plus there's less than 10% of apprentices currently in the system will ever amount to anything. Most dont care at all about doing a good job! And are bascically cheap labour doing pdis and not learning anything.
Its only going to get worse now we have numerous large foreign firms buying up the once family owned dealer groups. In classic takeover fashion. Cut all the costs out and pump all the money to the millionaire directors. Anyone not smashing the s
t out of the customers is deemed "low performer" and pushed out. I know 1 group that dramatically culled a huge percentage of their MASTER TECHS! The guys with decades of experience! The guys that fix the unfixable. That was "cost cutting" FFS as the new owners felt anyone can fix a car. 
One day I'll write the book on this.
For me the age of the car would be a major factor.
Out of warranty I don't have an issue if servicing isn't by a main dealer. In fact I'd rather it was done by an Indy specialist!
I sold a 2006 BMW Z4 in 2016 that had FMDSH but was due an oil service. Someone agreed to buy it on the basis I got the service done at a main dealer, so I did. 3 years later he sold it after having the next service done outside the dealer network.
I'm probably spoilt by having two great Indies run by ex-Sytner guys near me who will do things like replace gearbox fluid when BMW claims it is sealed for life - sealed long enough to survive the warranty more like!
Out of warranty I don't have an issue if servicing isn't by a main dealer. In fact I'd rather it was done by an Indy specialist!
I sold a 2006 BMW Z4 in 2016 that had FMDSH but was due an oil service. Someone agreed to buy it on the basis I got the service done at a main dealer, so I did. 3 years later he sold it after having the next service done outside the dealer network.
I'm probably spoilt by having two great Indies run by ex-Sytner guys near me who will do things like replace gearbox fluid when BMW claims it is sealed for life - sealed long enough to survive the warranty more like!
GeniusOfLove said:
POIDH said:
loskie said:
If it's out of warranty a service history by a local long established garage or specialist is fine by me.
Dealers: I don't hold their work in high regard at all.
^ that. Dealers: I don't hold their work in high regard at all.
A variety of garages, or iffy handwritten receipts makes me suspicious.
But regular servicing by a known/findable independent garage = better than main dealer generally.
Back street garages much more likely to do the work than throw your air filter in the bin too, I've lost count of how many main dealer services cars I've had that turn out to have original fit 10 year old filters in them.
loskie said:
Mind you the lease cars in my organisation use Halfords for service. BRAND new cars FFS
Realistically though, what's the difference between them and an main dealer doing the oil change (which other than sliding the drivers seat back and turning the heater on max is all that will get done in either case)My wife's company car gets the same treatment with services at the lowest bidding fast fit place.
They show the correct spec oil being charged for on the invoice, so presumably they are using that, so it really doesn't matter.
There's the added benefit of not having the main dealer work experience kid cover the car bodywork in swirl marks and smash up the interior with a hoover pipe as part of the "free valet"
If looking at an older car, a full dealer service history can be better though. I'd use a trusted independent myself, but if it's been to a dealer every time for 10 years, there's a good chance long term consumables like suspension parts will have been replaced when showing first signs of wear rather than being put off until it fails an MOT. It indicates that the previous owner has maintained regardless of cost (albeit possibly out of ignorance) and is likely to be a better punt than a car which is effectively maintained by things being brought up on the MOT which will inevitably have more catch up maintenance needed.
In my mind, it's when cars get to 5 years old and things which actually need a bit of skill need replacing that having someone who knows what they are doing matters more.
aturnick54 said:
If a car has full dealer history, I'd rather avoid it.
Chances are it has had several £4 an hour apprentices working on it, and likely some parts not even changed when needed (thinking fuel and cabin filters). Most people who take cars to dealers for servicing are either not mechanically-minded, or it's a company car.
Funny you say that. Take mine to a local garage and it gets everything done earlier than required because it costs the same to do it all at the local place as it would to do the minimum at a main dealer.Chances are it has had several £4 an hour apprentices working on it, and likely some parts not even changed when needed (thinking fuel and cabin filters). Most people who take cars to dealers for servicing are either not mechanically-minded, or it's a company car.
Did the same with my last S3. Had DSG and Haldex fluids replaced at 3 years / 15000 miles. Not many would bother doing that at main dealer prices.
I bought my 17year old son a Mercedes A150 AClass for his first car and that had full Mercedes service history, I went to my local Mercedes service centre and at £200 plus vat for a service on a 14 year old car wasn't going to happen, plus there attitude was just total garbage.My neighbour now looks after the car.
My 6 year old BMW has fmdsh and is still under warranty, all my cars ive had have been serviced by the main dealer, you get no good willl from the Manufacturer if the st hits the fan with Halfords or Fred in the shed servicing.
My 6 year old BMW has fmdsh and is still under warranty, all my cars ive had have been serviced by the main dealer, you get no good willl from the Manufacturer if the s
t hits the fan with Halfords or Fred in the shed servicing.I part exchanged a 2 and a half year old G30 530d M Sport and when I advised that I’d serviced the car at shorter intervals (12 months and circa 10k miles)then specified they weren’t the least bit interested.
All that concerned them was whether the work had been undertaken at BMW which it had.
All that concerned them was whether the work had been undertaken at BMW which it had.
Edited by Rob 131 Sport on Saturday 30th November 09:59
Regardless of a main dealer or indi service, having a book full of stamps and receipts could mean at least the seller cared?
My local garage is also a tyre seller. I buy all my tyres from them (5 cars in the house hold). 3 of the cars are serviced by them. Last week my son had bad juddering on full lock in a multi storey car park. When we left we went to the said indi, who kept us waiting all of 5 minutes, I think we were lucky the mechanic had just finished a job) and "had a look", couldn't replicate the juddering on a road test around the block, asked us if we could wait whilst he put it on the ramp, he had a good look around it and reported he couldn't see what was wrong but got the air hose and fired it underneath a shed load of dirt fell out. Told us to book it in if the problem reoccurred.
It didn't
They refused my offer to pay for their time. I promised the owner (lady) a bottle of decent red, and she was well chuffed.
Would I have got the same service from a main dealer? Highly unlikely.
For older cars like my old V70 (1999) I had it serviced main dealer as you get full EU breakdown cover where the RAC/AA wouldn't touch it, so worth the extra £££ just for that. The service was great when the fuel pump died 100m from home, they low loaded it to the dealer in Southampton, who gave her a car for the 11 days it took them to sort it.
So both have their benefits.... but in different area's
For me a pile of receipts and stamps are good, along with tyres that all match!!
My local garage is also a tyre seller. I buy all my tyres from them (5 cars in the house hold). 3 of the cars are serviced by them. Last week my son had bad juddering on full lock in a multi storey car park. When we left we went to the said indi, who kept us waiting all of 5 minutes, I think we were lucky the mechanic had just finished a job) and "had a look", couldn't replicate the juddering on a road test around the block, asked us if we could wait whilst he put it on the ramp, he had a good look around it and reported he couldn't see what was wrong but got the air hose and fired it underneath a shed load of dirt fell out. Told us to book it in if the problem reoccurred.
It didn't
They refused my offer to pay for their time. I promised the owner (lady) a bottle of decent red, and she was well chuffed.
Would I have got the same service from a main dealer? Highly unlikely.
For older cars like my old V70 (1999) I had it serviced main dealer as you get full EU breakdown cover where the RAC/AA wouldn't touch it, so worth the extra £££ just for that. The service was great when the fuel pump died 100m from home, they low loaded it to the dealer in Southampton, who gave her a car for the 11 days it took them to sort it.
So both have their benefits.... but in different area's
For me a pile of receipts and stamps are good, along with tyres that all match!!
Suzuki run the same type of system as Toyota traditional 3 year manufacture warranty and then a dealer activated warranty from years 3-7 upto 100k miles. When serviced as long as you take care of any gremlins they pull up it's covered for 12m under Suzuki warranty
If I remember rightly you can in effect buy a car at upto 6 years old with no history take it in and as said as long as Any gremlins are rectified during the service you'll have a years manufacture warranty. Obviously the older the vehicle less is covered. You get a scan code to activate the extra warranty. Not in that period yet so not sure how good the cover is
Missus has a Vitara which we bought new and is serviced every 12.5k miles. No issues yet will run till 100k miles then look to change for a new car again, unless I have a particular bad experience with them will stick to the dealer as it's local
We had a new Kia we ran til it was 9 years old and 112k miles. At 6.5 years old and 90k odd miles. It went in for a replacement engine under warranty. That was serviced by me at my place of work which was a independent garage all using genuine Kia parts, book stamped, vat invoices etc..... never once had a problem. That was between 2012-2019 and they seemed genuinely interested in building a UK reputation. When we went to replace the Kia with another new one. We swerved them as we were seeing a lot of kias at my old garage within that 7 year period that were being rejected for warranty claims because of non maintenance dealer history etc...
If I remember rightly you can in effect buy a car at upto 6 years old with no history take it in and as said as long as Any gremlins are rectified during the service you'll have a years manufacture warranty. Obviously the older the vehicle less is covered. You get a scan code to activate the extra warranty. Not in that period yet so not sure how good the cover is
Missus has a Vitara which we bought new and is serviced every 12.5k miles. No issues yet will run till 100k miles then look to change for a new car again, unless I have a particular bad experience with them will stick to the dealer as it's local
We had a new Kia we ran til it was 9 years old and 112k miles. At 6.5 years old and 90k odd miles. It went in for a replacement engine under warranty. That was serviced by me at my place of work which was a independent garage all using genuine Kia parts, book stamped, vat invoices etc..... never once had a problem. That was between 2012-2019 and they seemed genuinely interested in building a UK reputation. When we went to replace the Kia with another new one. We swerved them as we were seeing a lot of kias at my old garage within that 7 year period that were being rejected for warranty claims because of non maintenance dealer history etc...
iphonedyou said:
Funny you say that. Take mine to a local garage and it gets everything done earlier than required because it costs the same to do it all at the local place as it would to do the minimum at a main dealer.
Did the same with my last S3. Had DSG and Haldex fluids replaced at 3 years / 15000 miles. Not many would bother doing that at main dealer prices.
Exactly. I tend to do most servicing myself. It costs me £60 for an oil and filter change. Audi would want £270 for the same service. So I do it every 6k as many people recommend (and it definitely doesn't hurt), and a full service every 3 oil changes (which is 18k, works out at 1.5 years for me). Audi interval for air/fuel filter is around 40k miles so it's still half that.Did the same with my last S3. Had DSG and Haldex fluids replaced at 3 years / 15000 miles. Not many would bother doing that at main dealer prices.
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