RE: Land Rover previews 'most capable electric SUV'
Discussion
We had a 510e version of both the new sport and big Rangie.
That was the sweet spot for us; the approx 80 mile range was perfect for us, but if we went beyond the super quiet engine kicked in without notice and still offered around 35mpg.
The other week I was in an electric Vito van with its absurd 128 mile fully charged range that magically drops to about 112 if you have the audacity to use the lights, window wipers and heating.
As there was no way I was going to make the full 108 mile round trip, I had to stop at a charger off the dual carriageway and 20 miles of charge was £6.45, and took about 3 times the time it takes to fill a tank of fuel.
How do they possibly expect to push people onto electric?
Too expensive to buy, and too expensive to run unless charging at your house.
That was the sweet spot for us; the approx 80 mile range was perfect for us, but if we went beyond the super quiet engine kicked in without notice and still offered around 35mpg.
The other week I was in an electric Vito van with its absurd 128 mile fully charged range that magically drops to about 112 if you have the audacity to use the lights, window wipers and heating.
As there was no way I was going to make the full 108 mile round trip, I had to stop at a charger off the dual carriageway and 20 miles of charge was £6.45, and took about 3 times the time it takes to fill a tank of fuel.
How do they possibly expect to push people onto electric?
Too expensive to buy, and too expensive to run unless charging at your house.
ChocolateFrog said:
You could have a really bad day rock crawling with one of those.
Luckily no one will actually do it.
Yup. Don't take a knife to a gunfight. Luckily no one will actually do it.
But no one goes rock crawling by accident so it's not a scenario that would ever arise any more than Barry turning up in his mum's Honda Jazz. You know where you are going and what you are going to be doing so you pick the car from the collection that exists for that leisure activity.
Wheelspinning said:
We had a 510e version of both the new sport and big Rangie.
That was the sweet spot for us; the approx 80 mile range was perfect for us, but if we went beyond the super quiet engine kicked in without notice and still offered around 35mpg.
The other week I was in an electric Vito van with its absurd 128 mile fully charged range that magically drops to about 112 if you have the audacity to use the lights, window wipers and heating.
As there was no way I was going to make the full 108 mile round trip, I had to stop at a charger off the dual carriageway and 20 miles of charge was £6.45, and took about 3 times the time it takes to fill a tank of fuel.
How do they possibly expect to push people onto electric?
Too expensive to buy, and too expensive to run unless charging at your house.
It does make you wonder if EVs are just for show really?(look I'm saving the planet with my green stripe on my numberplate for example). Just too many compromises with them for most people to me, and they'll just stick to the tried and trusted way of doing it with ICE I reckon. EVs are an answer to a question that nobody asked for me. That was the sweet spot for us; the approx 80 mile range was perfect for us, but if we went beyond the super quiet engine kicked in without notice and still offered around 35mpg.
The other week I was in an electric Vito van with its absurd 128 mile fully charged range that magically drops to about 112 if you have the audacity to use the lights, window wipers and heating.
As there was no way I was going to make the full 108 mile round trip, I had to stop at a charger off the dual carriageway and 20 miles of charge was £6.45, and took about 3 times the time it takes to fill a tank of fuel.
How do they possibly expect to push people onto electric?
Too expensive to buy, and too expensive to run unless charging at your house.
Wheelspinning said:
We had a 510e version of both the new sport and big Rangie.
That was the sweet spot for us; the approx 80 mile range was perfect for us, but if we went beyond the super quiet engine kicked in without notice and still offered around 35mpg.
The other week I was in an electric Vito van with its absurd 128 mile fully charged range that magically drops to about 112 if you have the audacity to use the lights, window wipers and heating.
As there was no way I was going to make the full 108 mile round trip, I had to stop at a charger off the dual carriageway and 20 miles of charge was £6.45, and took about 3 times the time it takes to fill a tank of fuel.
How do they possibly expect to push people onto electric?
Too expensive to buy, and too expensive to run unless charging at your house.
Vans are a particular nightmare. They can really show up the current short comings of battery tech. That was the sweet spot for us; the approx 80 mile range was perfect for us, but if we went beyond the super quiet engine kicked in without notice and still offered around 35mpg.
The other week I was in an electric Vito van with its absurd 128 mile fully charged range that magically drops to about 112 if you have the audacity to use the lights, window wipers and heating.
As there was no way I was going to make the full 108 mile round trip, I had to stop at a charger off the dual carriageway and 20 miles of charge was £6.45, and took about 3 times the time it takes to fill a tank of fuel.
How do they possibly expect to push people onto electric?
Too expensive to buy, and too expensive to run unless charging at your house.
The U.K. government probably needs to remove vans from the wide discussion and set more bespoke guidance for their switch to EV.
You can clearly see that urban delivery routes easily favour EV vans and that the likes of Amazon should have absolutely no option but to go pure EV for all urban routes everywhere. Then at the other end you have the chap who parks his van on the resi street at night and whose work means the commute is never regular and recharging isn't simple and definitely not cheap.
Vans should be being treated very, very differently.
They already are for tax, ZEV etc but more work needs to be done to specifically ensure the slow switch to EV is entirely front loaded onto the Amazons and nothing to do with the chap who is earning a low income living via a van that cannot be home charged and cannot be financed at an appropriate level. At that lower end van users need to be 100% absolved from making any switch until the likes of Amazon have flooded the used market, the way third party charging fees are permitted and the national charging network is in place.
Everyone who uses a private car has that exact freedom but it's actually vital to ensure it exists for a key element of van users.
The trouble is that when you do do the right thing a whole load of others leap in and abuse it and it then gets shut down. Exactly as we've seen with crew cabs. A logical exemption ruined as always by the greedy little turds.
Luxury, non essential, premium vehicles? Completely different story. Anyone in that use case ha the brains and money to adapt to absolutely any scenario. We don't need to trouble ourselves with regards to any premium car use, we the consumers can sort all of that out and decide what we want and when we want it. It's a non issue.
How come petrol stations are all within several pence of each other, but chargers are sometimes double what the one round the corner is?
Presume they aren’t regulated in any way yet or they simply have a monopoly on a certain forecourt therefore ‘because f
k you’ becomes the business model?
It’s really annoying.
Presume they aren’t regulated in any way yet or they simply have a monopoly on a certain forecourt therefore ‘because f
k you’ becomes the business model?It’s really annoying.
p1stonhead said:
How come petrol stations are all within several pence of each other, but chargers are sometimes double what the one round the corner is?
Presume they aren’t regulated in any way yet or they simply have a monopoly on a certain forecourt therefore ‘because fk you’ becomes the business model?
It’s really annoying.
Petrol isn't regulated by anything but market forces. They charge more because it either cost more or they have a more prime location etc. Or they cost less because there are other revenues being served. Presume they aren’t regulated in any way yet or they simply have a monopoly on a certain forecourt therefore ‘because f
k you’ becomes the business model?It’s really annoying.
Chargers aren't any different. Each one has to be some kind of profit centre. Some are subsidised, others stand alone.
It will be many, many years before a properly competitive network is formed and that network is self defined by how EVs are used. It will take years because for the next decade the only people logically switching to EVs are people who don't primarily need them and for whom they are nothing more than a fallback.
So car users who don't have access to private parking and charging must, for the most part, just wait. But most appear to want to wait anyway so it really isn't an issue.
There is a basic rule at work here which is that of third party charging is a necessity then do not switch to an EV until that network fits your needs.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Saturday 30th November 11:27
DonkeyApple said:
There is a basic rule at work here which is that of third party charging is a necessity then do not switch to an EV until that network fits your needs.
Indeed, here on the continent (NL/BE) it's gotten a lot better. I've got a couple of family members with no off street parking and both manage fine.One has a Tesla with decent range, she has to come into the office at least twice a week and does virtually all her charging there.
The other one has an ID3 and they just wanted a new car even though they don't do the kilometers for it. There's a charger in her street and she has to park there about twice a month, which has never given her hardships.
Neither of them feel inconvenienced in any way or would even consider switching back to petrol, so it's definitely possible for more and more people more of the time as the network expands.
My driveway was hindered for a couple of weeks a couple of years ago and I managed to do all my charging at the gym and at my parents if I was there, no real inconvenience and 3h/week gave me about 250km, which was enough back then.
ZesPak said:
DonkeyApple said:
There is a basic rule at work here which is that of third party charging is a necessity then do not switch to an EV until that network fits your needs.
Indeed, here on the continent (NL/BE) it's gotten a lot better. I've got a couple of family members with no off street parking and both manage fine.One has a Tesla with decent range, she has to come into the office at least twice a week and does virtually all her charging there.
The other one has an ID3 and they just wanted a new car even though they don't do the kilometers for it. There's a charger in her street and she has to park there about twice a month, which has never given her hardships.
Neither of them feel inconvenienced in any way or would even consider switching back to petrol, so it's definitely possible for more and more people more of the time as the network expands.
My driveway was hindered for a couple of weeks a couple of years ago and I managed to do all my charging at the gym and at my parents if I was there, no real inconvenience and 3h/week gave me about 250km, which was enough back then.
The key though is for no one to think they are a god based on what car they use. That doesn't help anyone.
Mercutio said:
In before the naysayers -
the order book for this thing will be staggering. Along with the electric G Wagen, it is the perfect vehicle for the seriously rich to go about in the car of their choice (well upholstered tank) while immediately being able to point to electric if anyone argues.
It’s the perfect vehicle for anyone in the metropolitan elite who has no need for the capabilities the car offers, but historically have been obsessed with the image of the vehicle in terms of ride height and comfort, and as a statement of wealth.
So now they can technically make this choice guilt free.
If I had the money and really, really wouldn’t notice it gone, then I’d be in the market for one.
And the order book must be bulging already - this thing will sell like hotcakes to people who won’t even consider what could be steep depreciation over time. They just want to be the first in an electric Range Rover.
However, some things concern me
• What on earth will be the weight of this thing - surely beyond three tonnes? Is this weight race really any good for our roads? Surely some of the potholes and increased problems on our roads are coming from heavier vehicles.
• If an ICE Range Rover depreciates heavily anyway, what will this thing do? I can imagine it will sell at over list price for two years while the flippers make hay, but in a couple of years time once it’s available at list, will it drop significantly after three years of ownership? Will anyone care I guess if it’s leased?
• Range is also my biggest concern. Traditionally you could go 500-600 miles + in a six cylinder diesel on one tank. If this thing promises let’s say 350 miles on one charge, but in cold weather that comes out at 270 miles… for me that’s a real blow to the image and capability proposition of the vehicle. My opinion probably doesn’t count for much considering that if the vehicle is typically driven at its furthest from Kensington to Kingham or Battersea to Berkshire, then does it really matter? But this again reinforces the stereotype of the vehicle as an urban luxury runaround, which is just peak overconsumption. At least the D350 will still be there for those who want to get up and down the country etc.
Will the gross weight be above 3500KG ? Will most people on a standard licence be able to drive it ?the order book for this thing will be staggering. Along with the electric G Wagen, it is the perfect vehicle for the seriously rich to go about in the car of their choice (well upholstered tank) while immediately being able to point to electric if anyone argues.
It’s the perfect vehicle for anyone in the metropolitan elite who has no need for the capabilities the car offers, but historically have been obsessed with the image of the vehicle in terms of ride height and comfort, and as a statement of wealth.
So now they can technically make this choice guilt free.
If I had the money and really, really wouldn’t notice it gone, then I’d be in the market for one.
And the order book must be bulging already - this thing will sell like hotcakes to people who won’t even consider what could be steep depreciation over time. They just want to be the first in an electric Range Rover.
However, some things concern me
• What on earth will be the weight of this thing - surely beyond three tonnes? Is this weight race really any good for our roads? Surely some of the potholes and increased problems on our roads are coming from heavier vehicles.
• If an ICE Range Rover depreciates heavily anyway, what will this thing do? I can imagine it will sell at over list price for two years while the flippers make hay, but in a couple of years time once it’s available at list, will it drop significantly after three years of ownership? Will anyone care I guess if it’s leased?
• Range is also my biggest concern. Traditionally you could go 500-600 miles + in a six cylinder diesel on one tank. If this thing promises let’s say 350 miles on one charge, but in cold weather that comes out at 270 miles… for me that’s a real blow to the image and capability proposition of the vehicle. My opinion probably doesn’t count for much considering that if the vehicle is typically driven at its furthest from Kensington to Kingham or Battersea to Berkshire, then does it really matter? But this again reinforces the stereotype of the vehicle as an urban luxury runaround, which is just peak overconsumption. At least the D350 will still be there for those who want to get up and down the country etc.
cerb4.5lee said:
Wheelspinning said:
We had a 510e version of both the new sport and big Rangie.
That was the sweet spot for us; the approx 80 mile range was perfect for us, but if we went beyond the super quiet engine kicked in without notice and still offered around 35mpg.
The other week I was in an electric Vito van with its absurd 128 mile fully charged range that magically drops to about 112 if you have the audacity to use the lights, window wipers and heating.
As there was no way I was going to make the full 108 mile round trip, I had to stop at a charger off the dual carriageway and 20 miles of charge was £6.45, and took about 3 times the time it takes to fill a tank of fuel.
How do they possibly expect to push people onto electric?
Too expensive to buy, and too expensive to run unless charging at your house.
It does make you wonder if EVs are just for show really?(look I'm saving the planet with my green stripe on my numberplate for example). Just too many compromises with them for most people to me, and they'll just stick to the tried and trusted way of doing it with ICE I reckon. EVs are an answer to a question that nobody asked for me. That was the sweet spot for us; the approx 80 mile range was perfect for us, but if we went beyond the super quiet engine kicked in without notice and still offered around 35mpg.
The other week I was in an electric Vito van with its absurd 128 mile fully charged range that magically drops to about 112 if you have the audacity to use the lights, window wipers and heating.
As there was no way I was going to make the full 108 mile round trip, I had to stop at a charger off the dual carriageway and 20 miles of charge was £6.45, and took about 3 times the time it takes to fill a tank of fuel.
How do they possibly expect to push people onto electric?
Too expensive to buy, and too expensive to run unless charging at your house.
I also love the shove of all that torque you get instantly from BEVs that literally no ICE engine can match - it's the exact same feeling you get when on a jet plane and it takes off!
For me at least, there is also something very satisfying about a boring Tesla family car having the ability to keep £300k supercars on their toes too as in the real world, neither the Ferrari nor the McLaren could outrun that Model X:-
Remember too that BEV technology has only been widely available to the public for around 15 years (the Nissan Leaf was the first mass-produced electric car that only came to the market in 2010!) and is competing with technology that's been developed for over 150 years; it'll inevitably get better over time only I think that development rate will be a lot quicker than it took ICE to reach where it is today.
Edited by sidesauce on Sunday 1st December 10:11
sidesauce said:
ee I couldn't care less about saving the planet - I just love the smoothness and quiet, utterly vibration free driving that comes with BEVs. I don't really care for loud cars nowadays and much prefer the luxury models; the car I'd love to run is the new Rolls-Royce Spectre but failing that, this electric Range Rover will do the job admirably. The fact Henry Royce predicted the benefits of electric cars over 100 years ago is something I admire and he was 100% correct in his assessment, it's just that the battery tech wasn't available back then.
I also love the shove of all that torque you get instantly from BEVs that literally no ICE engine can match - it's the exact same feeling you get when on a jet plane and it takes off!
For me at least, there is also something very satisfying about a boring Tesla family car having the ability to keep £300k supercars on their toes too as in the real world, neither the Ferrari nor the McLaren could outrun that Model X:-
Remember too that BEV technology has only been widely available to the public for around 15 years (the Nissan Leaf was the first mass-produced electric car that only came to the market in 2010!) and is competing with technology that's been developed for over 150 years; it'll inevitably get better over time only I think that development rate will be a lot quicker than it took ICE to reach where it is today.
The 296 was quite a bit quicker rolling - not denying that the Tesla is rapid. I'd like to see what the difference would be in lap time, Tesla/most EV's are 1 trick pony's in terms of performance. I also love the shove of all that torque you get instantly from BEVs that literally no ICE engine can match - it's the exact same feeling you get when on a jet plane and it takes off!
For me at least, there is also something very satisfying about a boring Tesla family car having the ability to keep £300k supercars on their toes too as in the real world, neither the Ferrari nor the McLaren could outrun that Model X:-
Remember too that BEV technology has only been widely available to the public for around 15 years (the Nissan Leaf was the first mass-produced electric car that only came to the market in 2010!) and is competing with technology that's been developed for over 150 years; it'll inevitably get better over time only I think that development rate will be a lot quicker than it took ICE to reach where it is today.
Edited by sidesauce on Sunday 1st December 10:11
M.F.D said:
The 296 was quite a bit quicker rolling - not denying that the Tesla is rapid. I'd like to see what the difference would be in lap time, Tesla/most EV's are 1 trick pony's in terms of performance.
Why on earth would you? To prove a 1.5 tonne SUV is slower than a supercar around a track?Tell you what, I'd rather see the Ferrari take a family of four and their dog from London to Newcastle at Christmas...
cerb4.5lee said:
It does make you wonder if EVs are just for show really?(look I'm saving the planet with my green stripe on my numberplate for example). Just too many compromises with them for most people to me, and they'll just stick to the tried and trusted way of doing it with ICE I reckon. EVs are an answer to a question that nobody asked for me.
This is only true if you ignore the concept of time.Edge and difficult cases will be dealt with at the end of this 30 year transition, not the beginning.
They are perfectly fine today for many uses cases, just not all.
How would you describe an expectation that 3% of cars need to be able to suit the needs of 100% of car users?
I've got some words, but they aren't very flattering.
Fastlane said:
Why on earth would you? To prove a 1.5 tonne SUV is slower than a supercar around a track?
Tell you what, I'd rather see the Ferrari take a family of four and their dog from London to Newcastle at Christmas...
Nice drive to Geordiland with the dog. Then some further peace until the train from London arrives and the Uber drops the family off. Tell you what, I'd rather see the Ferrari take a family of four and their dog from London to Newcastle at Christmas...
Clearly the Ferrari is the superior tool for the job.
Fastlane said:
Why on earth would you? To prove a 1.5 tonne SUV is slower than a supercar around a track?
Tell you what, I'd rather see the Ferrari take a family of four and their dog from London to Newcastle at Christmas...
It's more like 2.5 tonne. But yes, my point is performance can be measured in so many more ways than from a standing start over a 1/4 mile. The acceleration is impressive, but the 'real world' performance will show a considerable difference between the cars.Tell you what, I'd rather see the Ferrari take a family of four and their dog from London to Newcastle at Christmas...
Agreed, the Tesla is more practical for taking a full family + dog on a family trip. Not sure what your point is there.
M.F.D said:
Agreed, the Tesla is more practical for taking a full family + dog on a family trip. Not sure what your point is there.
That judging a 2.5 tonne SUV on it's ability to outperform a Ferrari round a track is as pointless as judging a Ferrari on its ability to carry 5 people and a dog 200 miles?GT9 said:
This is only true if you ignore the concept of time.
Edge and difficult cases will be dealt with at the end of this 30 year transition, not the beginning.
They are perfectly fine today for many uses cases, just not all.
How would you describe an expectation that 3% of cars need to be able to suit the needs of 100% of car users?
I've got some words, but they aren't very flattering.
Shame about all the legislation that also ignores the concept of time when aiming for 100% of sales. You seem to have this idea that all the edge cases have years (30?!?) to be filled yet your hope relies on stretching the life of a lot of equipment without any current scope for replacement. Edge and difficult cases will be dealt with at the end of this 30 year transition, not the beginning.
They are perfectly fine today for many uses cases, just not all.
How would you describe an expectation that 3% of cars need to be able to suit the needs of 100% of car users?
I've got some words, but they aren't very flattering.
If I'm generous thats the triumph of dogma & wishful thinking over reality, rather than just deliberate 'everything is fine' propaganda.
Once politics got involved in selecting and forcing a winning solution and forced deadlines it was all doomed, so instead of natural progressive change we have an arbitrary mess that everyone knows will end badly.
M.F.D said:
The 296 was quite a bit quicker rolling - not denying that the Tesla is rapid. I'd like to see what the difference would be in lap time, Tesla/most EV's are 1 trick pony's in terms of performance.
Two things. I suggest you try a few different ones. They can be really rapid and not only on the straights. Very low Cog and no lump of an engine /box shoving the weight at one end.
Look at the Tacan's lap times. It beats many so called supercars and as a 4 seater is astonishingly quick.
IMO Many Ferraris are to die for. The 458 although now quite aged was just sublime to drive but it's just an expensive toy.
JoshSm said:
Once politics got involved in selecting and forcing a winning solution and forced deadlines it was all doomed, so instead of natural progressive change we have an arbitrary mess that everyone knows will end badly.
I don't think a winning solution has really been forced. The inherently failing solution is being forced out, and there aren't many options left.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff