RE: Driven: Audi A1 1.4 TFSI
Discussion
It does if no-one can spot the difference between Armani and Asda. While I accept that in this example there is a marked difference in the tailoring, i still wouldn't apy for the Armani label and would rather put up with George than look a d
head forking out money for a product I "perceive" will impress others....but usually doesn't.
head forking out money for a product I "perceive" will impress others....but usually doesn't.Targarama said:
Why all this claptrap about the BMW or Audi brands? How many people here would not be seen dead in an Asda t shirt and jeans? Oh no, it has to be Armani (or whatever designer).
People make choices in life, not everyone likes the same things or has the same values. That doesn't mean Audi shouldn't make a car to appeal to a certain demographic. Why can't people understand this? Most people have no clue why an enthusiast would want to drive something like a Caterham 7(noisy, no weather protection, no radio, no airbags...), but that doesn't mean Mr Caterham driver is wrong/a fool.
I agree with what Lus1fer said.People make choices in life, not everyone likes the same things or has the same values. That doesn't mean Audi shouldn't make a car to appeal to a certain demographic. Why can't people understand this? Most people have no clue why an enthusiast would want to drive something like a Caterham 7(noisy, no weather protection, no radio, no airbags...), but that doesn't mean Mr Caterham driver is wrong/a fool.
You can't really compare an Audi with a Caterham on 'choice' grounds, simply because Caterhams have a very specific set of qualities you don't really get anywhere else. They have, in modern business parlance, a USP.
Audi, as far as I can tell, don't unless you pay for a model with the quattro system and an engine you don't find in the VW/Seat/Skoda range. At this low level in Audi's range, there's nothing to recommend them over the VWs they're based on, which means they're just trading on the perception of what the badge means - 4WD, bespoke engineering, rally/DTM/Le Mans-bred success.
If it offers none of these things, then it's deeply cynical. A well-made dashboard doesn't come into it - anyone can do that if they pour enough funds into it.
Audi seem to be doing the exact same thing that got BL into trouble. Back in the '60s/'70s, you could get a BMC 1100/1300 badged as an Austin, a Morris, a Wolseley, a Riley, an MG, an Innocenti and a Vanden Plas, the only real difference between them being the grille and (in some cases) the materials the dashboard was made out of. When the crunch came, they realised that people were unwilling to pay extra for cars that didn't embody marque values beyond a grille, and they lost Wolseley and Riley. At the next crunch-point they lost Morris for the same reasons. Ultimately, this is why Rover went under whilst MG clung on - the MGR operation was more in the MG mould than the 'just-beneath-Rolls-Royce' position that Rover used to occupy.
However, VAG seem to be able to do the exact same thing successfully. The Polo platform is their 1100/1300. They can sell the same car as a Polo, an A1, a Fabia and an Ibiza.
The only reason I can work out for this is that, since the '70s, blanket marketing and widespread adoption of corporate-American mindsets among the populace mean we're getting thicker and more gullible.
Leicesterdave said:
How many times!! Running costs!!
That was just an example of how you could spend £21k....but let's face it: You don't blow £21,000 on a car if you're bothered about how much it costs. If you want cheap and reliable, spend as little as possible on a used Corolla diesel. If you want flashy and you have £21k in the bank, buy a better used car and save some for running it.ZesPak said:
Targarama said:
Why all this claptrap about the BMW or Audi brands? How many people here would not be seen dead in an Asda t shirt and jeans? Oh no, it has to be Armani (or whatever designer)
isn't somebody that only wears designer clothes by definition a snob?Same goes for people with nothing-special mid-range Audis who go round telling anyone and everyone who'll listen that they have an Audi, in the same way these nauseating parents at dinner parties tell you that their children go to private school and are 'doing ever so well' somehow seem to think that if your kids go to state school, they must be thick.
900T-R said:
sad61t said:
ZesPak said:
...Mini also have their fair load of badge snobs but they have other things going for them (being that they are very good to drive)...
Have to disagree with the Mini being good to drive as I don't get on with mine at all and would rate my R56 Cooper (120bhp) below the previous Panda 1.1 in handling terms. Corners that I'd happily take in that at 30mph (on its door handles with all four skinnies howling) I struggle to get round in the Mini mid-20s without the grind of understeer. It's far below the 96 Megane Coupé that I would point at a particularly twisty hill-climb with relish, balancing on the throttle at 50mph, and avoid in the Mini which did little more than make horrid front-end scrabbling grindy noises at 40. The turn in is either sweet or "OMG is the steering wheel even connected" - problem being I have no idea which until in the corner. Then there's the hideous torque steer at over 4K revs in second or third where it tries to throw itself bodily into the near-side hedge (heaven knows what it's like on an S with half the power again!), while utility trenches have to be approached with respect as they totally unsettle the line.The A1? It needs a USP, something the Fabia VRS estate has (space) and is much cheaper.
Froomee said:
frosted said:
Because you bought out of date cars that are already worth 10k after 1 month. This is priced as the new fiesta , and I know which one I rather have
Think you will find 2 year old examples with average mileage are Circa £13.5k-£14.5K and a new Focus ST and Astra VXR will not be around until late 2011 at the earliest. Either way new model or old(depending how you view it) given the choice most petrolheads would choose the two cars above for the same money! Motoring press compare cars at their list price which means nothing(certain car manufactuers offer ridiculous discounts if you know where to look) which effectively renders like for like comparisons useless(considering most people purchase a car based on there budget)fact is depreciation will be around £3k over two years for my car or £125 p/m my insurance is £700 per year(£58 p/m) see what A1 you can get on lease for £183 p/m or buy and insure for that money. The fact you did not research your statement and would rather have a fiesta over the two aforementioned cars sums up the validility of your statement especially considering a new fiesta zetec s would have probably cost the same to buy(in depreciation) and insure as my Focus ST . Generally speaking if you are going to be sarcastic make sure you have a basis of intelligence.....Just for your information spending £1200 on my car effectively makes it comparible in performance terms to an S3 and doesn't effect the warranty so go figure??? and considering the size of my car and the options my car has once mountuned my car will then be comparible to an S3 let alone a basic A1 only a lot cheaper.
Online Valuation: £11,860 Your Reference: WBAC15500984
So lets say you add another £1000 for being webuyanycar but you get the picture
Twincam16 said:
Audi seem to be doing the exact same thing that got BL into trouble. Back in the '60s/'70s, you could get a BMC 1100/1300 badged as an Austin, a Morris, a Wolseley, a Riley, an MG, an Innocenti and a Vanden Plas, the only real difference between them being the grille and (in some cases) the materials the dashboard was made out of.
However, VAG seem to be able to do the exact same thing successfully. The Polo platform is their 1100/1300. They can sell the same car as a Polo, an A1, a Fabia and an Ibiza.
The only reason I can work out for this is that, since the '70s, blanket marketing and widespread adoption of corporate-American mindsets among the populace mean we're getting thicker and more gullible.
Or maybe (perish the thought) VAG's marketing people know what they are doing and are good at their job.However, VAG seem to be able to do the exact same thing successfully. The Polo platform is their 1100/1300. They can sell the same car as a Polo, an A1, a Fabia and an Ibiza.
The only reason I can work out for this is that, since the '70s, blanket marketing and widespread adoption of corporate-American mindsets among the populace mean we're getting thicker and more gullible.
excel monkey said:
Twincam16 said:
Audi seem to be doing the exact same thing that got BL into trouble. Back in the '60s/'70s, you could get a BMC 1100/1300 badged as an Austin, a Morris, a Wolseley, a Riley, an MG, an Innocenti and a Vanden Plas, the only real difference between them being the grille and (in some cases) the materials the dashboard was made out of.
However, VAG seem to be able to do the exact same thing successfully. The Polo platform is their 1100/1300. They can sell the same car as a Polo, an A1, a Fabia and an Ibiza.
The only reason I can work out for this is that, since the '70s, blanket marketing and widespread adoption of corporate-American mindsets among the populace mean we're getting thicker and more gullible.
Or maybe (perish the thought) VAG's marketing people know what they are doing and are good at their job.However, VAG seem to be able to do the exact same thing successfully. The Polo platform is their 1100/1300. They can sell the same car as a Polo, an A1, a Fabia and an Ibiza.
The only reason I can work out for this is that, since the '70s, blanket marketing and widespread adoption of corporate-American mindsets among the populace mean we're getting thicker and more gullible.
As far as I'm concerned, all the job of the marketing department should be should be to tell the public about the substance of the product. Unfortunately there are far too many Heat/GQ-readers out there who actually fall for their 'lifestyle' guff and end up empty, conned and skint.
Marketing departments are the crack dealers of the automotive world. Bring back adverts like this:
No doubt about the desirability of the product, but amazingly, the advert just tells me about the car. As for the lifestyle, well that's up to me. It'll fit in with whatever I've got planned.
Problem is, the whole 'lifestyle marketing' seems to have spilled over to become the driving force in the very creation of the car itself. There are now whole genres of car built entirely on shallowness and vanity, merely fuelling the fire of anti-car hatred that people on here get so wound up about whilst assuming the feeling of our 'enemies' to be jealousy.
If it wasn't for the insidious nature of marketing, you wouldn't get the small dick/mid-life-crisis/poseur/t
t accusations for driving a sports car. People might actually think you bought it because you like to drive it.Was it Bill Hicks who said 'If anyone here works in advertising, do yourself a favour and go kill yourself'?
ian_c_uk said:
900T-R said:
sad61t said:
ZesPak said:
...Mini also have their fair load of badge snobs but they have other things going for them (being that they are very good to drive)...
Have to disagree with the Mini being good to drive as I don't get on with mine at all and would rate my R56 Cooper (120bhp) below the previous Panda 1.1 in handling terms. Corners that I'd happily take in that at 30mph (on its door handles with all four skinnies howling) I struggle to get round in the Mini mid-20s without the grind of understeer. It's far below the 96 Megane Coupé that I would point at a particularly twisty hill-climb with relish, balancing on the throttle at 50mph, and avoid in the Mini which did little more than make horrid front-end scrabbling grindy noises at 40. The turn in is either sweet or "OMG is the steering wheel even connected" - problem being I have no idea which until in the corner. Then there's the hideous torque steer at over 4K revs in second or third where it tries to throw itself bodily into the near-side hedge (heaven knows what it's like on an S with half the power again!), while utility trenches have to be approached with respect as they totally unsettle the line.The A1? It needs a USP, something the Fabia VRS estate has (space) and is much cheaper.
Edited by sad61t on Friday 25th June 11:38
All companies "know what they're doing" or they wouldn't be doing it. Those running BMC and British Leyland "knew what they were doing" and when it all went wrong, they probably still "wouldn't change a thing".
It seems to me that British Leyland, GM and Ford have all suffered from badge engineering to their detriment and yet VW are going at it hammer and tongs. O course they have to make their range wide and varied but the Cortina did very well in the 70s with just a saloon and estate and a about 7 variants in trim level without ever sharing it's structure with any other model or manufacturer.
It seems to me that British Leyland, GM and Ford have all suffered from badge engineering to their detriment and yet VW are going at it hammer and tongs. O course they have to make their range wide and varied but the Cortina did very well in the 70s with just a saloon and estate and a about 7 variants in trim level without ever sharing it's structure with any other model or manufacturer.
Twincam16 said:
excel monkey said:
Twincam16 said:
Audi seem to be doing the exact same thing that got BL into trouble. Back in the '60s/'70s, you could get a BMC 1100/1300 badged as an Austin, a Morris, a Wolseley, a Riley, an MG, an Innocenti and a Vanden Plas, the only real difference between them being the grille and (in some cases) the materials the dashboard was made out of.
However, VAG seem to be able to do the exact same thing successfully. The Polo platform is their 1100/1300. They can sell the same car as a Polo, an A1, a Fabia and an Ibiza.
The only reason I can work out for this is that, since the '70s, blanket marketing and widespread adoption of corporate-American mindsets among the populace mean we're getting thicker and more gullible.
Or maybe (perish the thought) VAG's marketing people know what they are doing and are good at their job.However, VAG seem to be able to do the exact same thing successfully. The Polo platform is their 1100/1300. They can sell the same car as a Polo, an A1, a Fabia and an Ibiza.
The only reason I can work out for this is that, since the '70s, blanket marketing and widespread adoption of corporate-American mindsets among the populace mean we're getting thicker and more gullible.
As far as I'm concerned, all the job of the marketing department should be should be to tell the public about the substance of the product.
People do actually WANT their brand to represent value/sport/quality/luxury, and Skoda/Seat/VW/Audi gives them that. People KNOW the cars are on common platforms, but they buy the car that gives them the performance/spec/price combination that suits them best. Just because the cars are on common platforms doesn't make them bad cars.
I wasn't around for most of the 70s, but I can't see how BL's brands differentiated themselves as effectively as the current VAG brands. Triumph and MG were sporty, and Rover was luxury, but I'm not sure how Austin/Morris/Riley/Wolseley differentiated themselves.
Edited by excel monkey on Friday 25th June 14:19
sad61t said:
ian_c_uk said:
900T-R said:
sad61t said:
ZesPak said:
...Mini also have their fair load of badge snobs but they have other things going for them (being that they are very good to drive)...
Have to disagree with the Mini being good to drive as I don't get on with mine at all and would rate my R56 Cooper (120bhp) below the previous Panda 1.1 in handling terms. Corners that I'd happily take in that at 30mph (on its door handles with all four skinnies howling) I struggle to get round in the Mini mid-20s without the grind of understeer. It's far below the 96 Megane Coupé that I would point at a particularly twisty hill-climb with relish, balancing on the throttle at 50mph, and avoid in the Mini which did little more than make horrid front-end scrabbling grindy noises at 40. The turn in is either sweet or "OMG is the steering wheel even connected" - problem being I have no idea which until in the corner. Then there's the hideous torque steer at over 4K revs in second or third where it tries to throw itself bodily into the near-side hedge (heaven knows what it's like on an S with half the power again!), while utility trenches have to be approached with respect as they totally unsettle the line.The A1? It needs a USP, something the Fabia VRS estate has (space) and is much cheaper.
Edited by sad61t on Friday 25th June 11:38
I'm averaging 43mpg, and that's with a lot of motorway work. I will admit the steering is pretty light without the "sports button" to turn the assistance back down.You are correct in spotting that Jag, rover and MG had strong identities and positions in the market and that got confused when Triumph entered the equation and made cars in the same sector as Rover and MG which is why they ultimately died away as they were competing with themselves. Triumph and Rover had similar upmarket images but it was the toss of a coin which had more status.
The Austin, Morris and Wolseley difference was supposed to be a hierarchy of luxury with Morris at the bottom then Austin then Wolseley but nobody really understood that when the Allegro wasn't a Wolseley but a Vanden Plas! All this proved was that there was no need for 3 different marques and that was proved when Morris and Wolseley bit the dust and everything became Austin which had the "image" of a dead parrot. They tried to adopt the Ford idea of L,GL,S,Ghia using L, HL and HLS which themselves were lacklustre tags which only served to confuse and I'm not sure the Maestro or Montego used those badges.
Where British Leyland went wrong was perhaps failing to make anything of these basic brands without any halo model (having to rely on their RWD stuff for motorsport)and trying to brand them all with BL badges. At least VW have tried to confuse the public into believing their brands are separate car companies but I fear they still only compete with themselves at great expense.
The Austin, Morris and Wolseley difference was supposed to be a hierarchy of luxury with Morris at the bottom then Austin then Wolseley but nobody really understood that when the Allegro wasn't a Wolseley but a Vanden Plas! All this proved was that there was no need for 3 different marques and that was proved when Morris and Wolseley bit the dust and everything became Austin which had the "image" of a dead parrot. They tried to adopt the Ford idea of L,GL,S,Ghia using L, HL and HLS which themselves were lacklustre tags which only served to confuse and I'm not sure the Maestro or Montego used those badges.
Where British Leyland went wrong was perhaps failing to make anything of these basic brands without any halo model (having to rely on their RWD stuff for motorsport)and trying to brand them all with BL badges. At least VW have tried to confuse the public into believing their brands are separate car companies but I fear they still only compete with themselves at great expense.
ian_c_uk said:
sad61t said:
ian_c_uk said:
900T-R said:
sad61t said:
ZesPak said:
...Mini also have their fair load of badge snobs but they have other things going for them (being that they are very good to drive)...
Have to disagree with the Mini being good to drive as I don't get on with mine at all and would rate my R56 Cooper (120bhp) below the previous Panda 1.1 in handling terms. Corners that I'd happily take in that at 30mph (on its door handles with all four skinnies howling) I struggle to get round in the Mini mid-20s without the grind of understeer. It's far below the 96 Megane Coupé that I would point at a particularly twisty hill-climb with relish, balancing on the throttle at 50mph, and avoid in the Mini which did little more than make horrid front-end scrabbling grindy noises at 40. The turn in is either sweet or "OMG is the steering wheel even connected" - problem being I have no idea which until in the corner. Then there's the hideous torque steer at over 4K revs in second or third where it tries to throw itself bodily into the near-side hedge (heaven knows what it's like on an S with half the power again!), while utility trenches have to be approached with respect as they totally unsettle the line.The A1? It needs a USP, something the Fabia VRS estate has (space) and is much cheaper.
Edited by sad61t on Friday 25th June 11:38
I'm averaging 43mpg, and that's with a lot of motorway work. I will admit the steering is pretty light without the "sports button" to turn the assistance back down.
Twincam16 said:
excel monkey said:
Twincam16 said:
Audi seem to be doing the exact same thing that got BL into trouble. Back in the '60s/'70s, you could get a BMC 1100/1300 badged as an Austin, a Morris, a Wolseley, a Riley, an MG, an Innocenti and a Vanden Plas, the only real difference between them being the grille and (in some cases) the materials the dashboard was made out of.
However, VAG seem to be able to do the exact same thing successfully. The Polo platform is their 1100/1300. They can sell the same car as a Polo, an A1, a Fabia and an Ibiza.
The only reason I can work out for this is that, since the '70s, blanket marketing and widespread adoption of corporate-American mindsets among the populace mean we're getting thicker and more gullible.
Or maybe (perish the thought) VAG's marketing people know what they are doing and are good at their job.However, VAG seem to be able to do the exact same thing successfully. The Polo platform is their 1100/1300. They can sell the same car as a Polo, an A1, a Fabia and an Ibiza.
The only reason I can work out for this is that, since the '70s, blanket marketing and widespread adoption of corporate-American mindsets among the populace mean we're getting thicker and more gullible.
As far as I'm concerned, all the job of the marketing department should be should be to tell the public about the substance of the product. Unfortunately there are far too many Heat/GQ-readers out there who actually fall for their 'lifestyle' guff and end up empty, conned and skint.
Marketing departments are the crack dealers of the automotive world. Bring back adverts like this:
No doubt about the desirability of the product, but amazingly, the advert just tells me about the car. As for the lifestyle, well that's up to me. It'll fit in with whatever I've got planned.
Problem is, the whole 'lifestyle marketing' seems to have spilled over to become the driving force in the very creation of the car itself. There are now whole genres of car built entirely on shallowness and vanity, merely fuelling the fire of anti-car hatred that people on here get so wound up about whilst assuming the feeling of our 'enemies' to be jealousy.
If it wasn't for the insidious nature of marketing, you wouldn't get the small dick/mid-life-crisis/poseur/t
t accusations for driving a sports car. People might actually think you bought it because you like to drive it.Was it Bill Hicks who said 'If anyone here works in advertising, do yourself a favour and go kill yourself'?
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