difference between driving lamps & fog lights?

[shirt]

I rarely use my fog lights but as my headlights are pretty crap I do like the increased visibility they allow. would changing the bulbs for something less intense allow me to use them legally as driving lamps or is it more involved than that? they are typical oem pods fitted in the front valance.

[LuS1fer]

I have an old Golf III and with the headlights on in a very dark lane, I can put the fog lights on and off and see a barely detectable difference that simply doesn't justify ever using them for that purpose.

The answer to your question is that foglamps emit diffused light so will always be the same annoying light. Proper driving lights either have a dip cut-off or only come on with the high beam.

[Thorburn]

LuS1fer said:

The answer to your question is that foglamps emit diffused light so will always be the same annoying light. Proper driving lights either have a dip cut-off or only come on with the high beam.

Yep, my Elise came with driving lights from the factory, so they come on with the main beam and make quite a dramatic difference. Took me a couple minutes to realise this when I first got it, checking all the lights worked and spent ages looking for a front fog button

Only car I've ever had with fogs was my old Fiesta Si, and I think I only used those once. I'd guess you'd need to replace the whole light unit, plus re-wire to use the main beam circuit?

[Smike]

309Gti and XR2i had both fogs and driving lights in roughly the same place in front spoiler. The driving lights have different lenses and only come on with main beam

[shirt]

ah ok. that's that idea out then.

main beam lights are really good, its just dipped that are crap which is disappointing as I replaced all the old bulbs with halfords' extreme brilliance ones.

[cupra_bish]

[gdaybruce]

The origianl Impreza Turbo came with large fog lights in the front valance which, despite their size, were pretty useless for anything beyond lighting up the verges. I replaced mine with Cibie long range units that I wired, via a relay, into the main beam circuit, resulting in vastly improved lighting.

[kambites]

gdaybruce said:

The origianl Impreza Turbo came with large fog lights in the front valance which, despite their size, were pretty useless for anything beyond lighting up the verges. I replaced mine with Cibie long range units that I wired, via a relay, into the main beam circuit, resulting in vastly improved lighting.

"Lighting up the verges" is pretty much the entire purpose of front fog lights.

[Mars]

Thing is though, low height lights like those described as "front fog lights" are useful at times other than in foggy weather. I rarely use mine but we do live next to the countryside which is unlit (of course) and they are useful in those circumstances. Dark, twisty lanes, with varying road-widths and no kerb stones can be navigated far easier with these lights on.

What I don't get is why people hate them so much. They are NOT pointed upwards at an oncoming driver, so I refuse to accept that they dazzle - and remember I drove a Caterham for years and I still maintain this. Yes they are a bright point source but you don't have to look directly at them. In fact I'd suggest that HIDs are a brighter point source but because they are in the "right place" on the car, they don't raise the anger of other drivers as much.

Is the hatred of them simply because they have been adopted as "cool" by the Saxo followers?


Edited to clarify one missing pertinent word.

Edited by Mars on Thursday 2nd December 11:02

[Pints]

cupra_bish said:

I'm sure a large number of fog lights being used inappropriately are attributable to adverts such as these. "Adverse weather conditions". FFS.

[LuS1fer]

kambites said:

gdaybruce said:

The origianl Impreza Turbo came with large fog lights in the front valance which, despite their size, were pretty useless for anything beyond lighting up the verges. I replaced mine with Cibie long range units that I wired, via a relay, into the main beam circuit, resulting in vastly improved lighting.

"Lighting up the verges" is pretty much the entire purpose of front fog lights.

Only in fog or visibility of less than 100 yards though for those incapable of comprehending that notion. And of course to illuminate under the fog not through it.

[gdaybruce]

kambites said:

gdaybruce said:

The origianl Impreza Turbo came with large fog lights in the front valance which, despite their size, were pretty useless for anything beyond lighting up the verges. I replaced mine with Cibie long range units that I wired, via a relay, into the main beam circuit, resulting in vastly improved lighting.

"Lighting up the verges" is pretty much the entire purpose of front fog lights.

Point taken. It's just that the number of occasions when visibility is so bad that you actually need the sharp cut off and close range of fog lights in preference to dipped headlights are so few and far between that I can't actually remember the last time that was the case.

[gdaybruce]

Mars said:

Thing is though, low height lights like those described as "front fog lights" are useful at times other than in foggy weather. I rarely use mine but we do live next to the countryside which is unlit (of course) and they are useful in those circumstances. Dark, twisty lanes, with varying road-widths and no kerb stones can be navigated far easier with these lights on.

What I don't get is why people hate them so much. They are pointed upwards at an oncoming driver, so I refuse to accept that they dazzle - and remember I drove a Caterham for years and I still maintain this. Yes they are a bright point source but you don't have to look directly at them. In fact I'd suggest that HIDs are a brighter point source but because they are in the "right place" on the car, they don't raise the anger of other drivers as much.

Is the hatred of them simply because they have been adopted as "cool" by the Saxo followers?

I tend to agree with you. Looked at objectively, very seldom are fog lights actually dazzling: after all their whole purpose is to avoid throwing light upwards which would make them useless in foggy conditions and they have a very short range. Rear fog lights, of course, are a different matter entirely. Only trouble is, it's illegal to use fogs (front or back) in anything other than poor visibility.

[300bhp/ton]

LuS1fer said:

I have an old Golf III and with the headlights on in a very dark lane, I can put the fog lights on and off and see a barely detectable difference that simply doesn't justify ever using them for that purpose.

Only car I've had with fitted (or working ) front fogs is my Camaro. On the country lanes I think they make a notable difference. Not for distance, but they light up the sides of the road way better, this is good at all times but especially if lots of tight turns are involved when your normal headlights don't actually shine in the direction the road is going to go.

[Bluebarge]

Mars said:

Thing is though, low height lights like those described as "front fog lights" are useful at times other than in foggy weather. I rarely use mine but we do live next to the countryside which is unlit (of course) and they are useful in those circumstances. Dark, twisty lanes, with varying road-widths and no kerb stones can be navigated far easier with these lights on.

What I don't get is why people hate them so much. They are pointed upwards at an oncoming driver, so I refuse to accept that they dazzle - and remember I drove a Caterham for years and I still maintain this. Yes they are a bright point source but you don't have to look directly at them. In fact I'd suggest that HIDs are a brighter point source but because they are in the "right place" on the car, they don't raise the anger of other drivers as much.

Is the hatred of them simply because they have been adopted as "cool" by the Saxo followers?

Sorry, but they are harmful to other drivers' night vision, which is why you are only supposed to use them in fog. If you can't see an unlit road properly on dipped beams, you either need you get your headlights checked, or see an optician.

[davethebunny]

the old 'i need them on to see the edge of the road' excuse is bks

How far ahead do they light the verge?

You have to be doing less than 20mph for there to be time to react to anything they illuminate which the headlights didn't.

And i don't believe that they'd light up anything the headlight wouldn't anyway.

You should be looking as far forward as possible. That is the whole point of full beam.

So if you want to drive around with your fogs on, do so, i don't care, but you do look a nob

[kambites]

davethebunny said:

You have to be doing less than 20mph for there to be time to react to anything they illuminate which the headlights didn't.

Yes, you certainly shouldn't be using front fog lights at more than about 20-30mph. They do make a difference in really heavy fog (visibility so poor that you can't see the ground where your dipped beam lights first hit it), but I've only ever once seen fog that bad, as far as I can remember.

[300bhp/ton]

Bluebarge said:

Mars said:

Thing is though, low height lights like those described as "front fog lights" are useful at times other than in foggy weather. I rarely use mine but we do live next to the countryside which is unlit (of course) and they are useful in those circumstances. Dark, twisty lanes, with varying road-widths and no kerb stones can be navigated far easier with these lights on.

What I don't get is why people hate them so much. They are pointed upwards at an oncoming driver, so I refuse to accept that they dazzle - and remember I drove a Caterham for years and I still maintain this. Yes they are a bright point source but you don't have to look directly at them. In fact I'd suggest that HIDs are a brighter point source but because they are in the "right place" on the car, they don't raise the anger of other drivers as much.

Is the hatred of them simply because they have been adopted as "cool" by the Saxo followers?

Sorry, but they are harmful to other drivers' night vision, which is why you are only supposed to use them in fog. If you can't see an unlit road properly on dipped beams, you either need you get your headlights checked, or see an optician.

What a load of rubbish in every sense.

[300bhp/ton]

davethebunny said:

the old 'i need them on to see the edge of the road' excuse is bks

How far ahead do they light the verge?

You have to be doing less than 20mph for there to be time to react to anything they illuminate which the headlights didn't.

And i don't believe that they'd light up anything the headlight wouldn't anyway.

You should be looking as far forward as possible. That is the whole point of full beam.

So if you want to drive around with your fogs on, do so, i don't care, but you do look a nob

Maybe read my 1st post above

It's not that simple, although I don't actually use them that much, they DO make a difference for the reasons I noted.

[Mr E]

Thorburn said:

Yep, my Elise came with driving lights from the factory, so they come on with the main beam and make quite a dramatic difference. Took me a couple minutes to realise this when I first got it, checking all the lights worked and spent ages looking for a front fog button

I'm so pleased that wasn't just me....

The old car was a JDM import, and had driving lights (they came on with dipped beam). I had to install a switch to turn them off because I was sick of being flashed (and they did nothing for viability).