The seemingly oft maligned 996 GT3 RS ........
Discussion
I couldn't let this thread pass without offering up my own experience.
I owned a 996RS for two years purchased after a Mk 2 996 GT3.
I live in Central London.
I used it totally indiscriminately - on occasion, as a daily driver, to commute, to shop - couldn't care less.
I've had quite a few Ferrari's since then (scuds, etc) and other exotica etc and driven cars like the CGT, F40, Enzo etc comprehensively (especially the former two). I've actually got a modified Scud (wheels, susp, exhaust) atm. However, for me the 6RS for me remains THE car.
It had clearly been compromised (by that I mean sharpness taken away) on it's stock susp settings when I picked it up, but £500 + VAT at Parr for a geo transformed it.
Regardless, the point is, it is easily the most engaging, and involving car I've EVER driven (alongside the CGT/F50) and, provided you know what you're doing behind the wheel (which I didn't/don't because I'm a 5h1t driver), it's actually forgiving. It requires understanding and then gradually as you figure it out, it becomes an utterly thrilling experience. Noise, control, the feeling YOU are driving the car, the mechanical transparency, the response, the performance... It's awesome. And I must say, in ethos,very much like the CGT.
The problems the car has are simple:
a) An unjust reputation for being too hard (it's softer on the road than my Mk2 GT3 was). OR maybe people are just using to driving much softer cars (like 430's 997 TTs etc) in which case their concerns are valid but what are they doing in an RS.
b) People can't live with the pointy front end. They just don't know how to/don't want to, adjust their driving style to actually get the best from it. CGT needs the same steering wheel control might I add.
c) People want instant, unrewarding, performance: Floor throttle, mash brake, turn in, floor throttle. Sorry, but the 996RS is so much more interesting than that.... It's about getting the best from you to access devastating on road performance which makes it a BRILLIANT long-term ownership proposition (that's why a CGT is just soo much more interesting than an Enzo).
It's the last RS.
After 6RS, Porsche started, iteratively and slowly, building cars around electronic inputs instead of driver inputs. That made for progressively faster and less rewarding cars....
I'm going to buy another one.
I owned a 996RS for two years purchased after a Mk 2 996 GT3.
I live in Central London.
I used it totally indiscriminately - on occasion, as a daily driver, to commute, to shop - couldn't care less.
I've had quite a few Ferrari's since then (scuds, etc) and other exotica etc and driven cars like the CGT, F40, Enzo etc comprehensively (especially the former two). I've actually got a modified Scud (wheels, susp, exhaust) atm. However, for me the 6RS for me remains THE car.
It had clearly been compromised (by that I mean sharpness taken away) on it's stock susp settings when I picked it up, but £500 + VAT at Parr for a geo transformed it.
Regardless, the point is, it is easily the most engaging, and involving car I've EVER driven (alongside the CGT/F50) and, provided you know what you're doing behind the wheel (which I didn't/don't because I'm a 5h1t driver), it's actually forgiving. It requires understanding and then gradually as you figure it out, it becomes an utterly thrilling experience. Noise, control, the feeling YOU are driving the car, the mechanical transparency, the response, the performance... It's awesome. And I must say, in ethos,very much like the CGT.
The problems the car has are simple:
a) An unjust reputation for being too hard (it's softer on the road than my Mk2 GT3 was). OR maybe people are just using to driving much softer cars (like 430's 997 TTs etc) in which case their concerns are valid but what are they doing in an RS.
b) People can't live with the pointy front end. They just don't know how to/don't want to, adjust their driving style to actually get the best from it. CGT needs the same steering wheel control might I add.
c) People want instant, unrewarding, performance: Floor throttle, mash brake, turn in, floor throttle. Sorry, but the 996RS is so much more interesting than that.... It's about getting the best from you to access devastating on road performance which makes it a BRILLIANT long-term ownership proposition (that's why a CGT is just soo much more interesting than an Enzo).
It's the last RS.
After 6RS, Porsche started, iteratively and slowly, building cars around electronic inputs instead of driver inputs. That made for progressively faster and less rewarding cars....
I'm going to buy another one.
Edited by Murcielago_Boy on Friday 18th July 16:01
Edited by Murcielago_Boy on Friday 18th July 16:02
Murcielago_Boy said:
I couldn't let this thread pass without offering up my own experience.
I owned a 996RS for two years purchased after a Mk 2 996 GT3.
I live in Central London.
I used it totally indiscriminately - on occasion, as a daily driver, to commute, to shop - couldn't care less.
I've had quite a few Ferrari's since then (scuds, etc) and other exotica etc and driven cars like the CGT, F40, Enzo etc comprehensively (especially the former two). I've actually got a modified Scud (wheels, susp, exhaust) atm. However, for me the 6RS for me remains THE car.
It had clearly been compromised (by that I mean sharpness taken away) on it's stock susp settings when I picked it up, but £500 + VAT at Parr for a geo transformed it.
Regardless, the point is, it is easily the most engaging, and involving car I've EVER driven (alongside the CGT/F50) and, provided you know what you're doing behind the wheel (which I didn't/don't because I'm a 5h1t driver), it's actually forgiving. It requires understanding and then gradually as you figure it out, it becomes an utterly thrilling experience. Noise, control, the feeling YOU are driving the car, the mechanical transparency, the response, the performance... It's awesome. And I must say, in ethos,very much like the CGT.
Dear Boy!
I wondered how long it would be before you bought another one..
The problems the car has are simple:
a) An unjust reputation for being too hard (it's softer on the road than my Mk2 GT3 was). OR maybe people are just using to driving much softer cars (like 430's 997 TTs etc) in which case their concerns are valid but what are they doing in an RS.
b) People can't live with the pointy front end. They just don't know how to/don't want to, adjust their driving style to actually get the best from it. CGT needs the same steering wheel control might I add.
c) People want instant, unrewarding, performance: Floor throttle, mash brake, turn in, floor throttle. Sorry, but the 996RS is so much more interesting than that.... It's about getting the best from you to access devastating on road performance which makes it a BRILLIANT long-term ownership proposition (that's why a CGT is just soo much more interesting than an Enzo).
It's the last RS.
After 6RS, Porsche started, iteratively and slowly, building cars around electronic inputs instead of driver inputs. That made for progressively faster and less rewarding cars....
I'm going to buy another one.
I owned a 996RS for two years purchased after a Mk 2 996 GT3.
I live in Central London.
I used it totally indiscriminately - on occasion, as a daily driver, to commute, to shop - couldn't care less.
I've had quite a few Ferrari's since then (scuds, etc) and other exotica etc and driven cars like the CGT, F40, Enzo etc comprehensively (especially the former two). I've actually got a modified Scud (wheels, susp, exhaust) atm. However, for me the 6RS for me remains THE car.
It had clearly been compromised (by that I mean sharpness taken away) on it's stock susp settings when I picked it up, but £500 + VAT at Parr for a geo transformed it.
Regardless, the point is, it is easily the most engaging, and involving car I've EVER driven (alongside the CGT/F50) and, provided you know what you're doing behind the wheel (which I didn't/don't because I'm a 5h1t driver), it's actually forgiving. It requires understanding and then gradually as you figure it out, it becomes an utterly thrilling experience. Noise, control, the feeling YOU are driving the car, the mechanical transparency, the response, the performance... It's awesome. And I must say, in ethos,very much like the CGT.
Dear Boy!
I wondered how long it would be before you bought another one..
The problems the car has are simple:
a) An unjust reputation for being too hard (it's softer on the road than my Mk2 GT3 was). OR maybe people are just using to driving much softer cars (like 430's 997 TTs etc) in which case their concerns are valid but what are they doing in an RS.
b) People can't live with the pointy front end. They just don't know how to/don't want to, adjust their driving style to actually get the best from it. CGT needs the same steering wheel control might I add.
c) People want instant, unrewarding, performance: Floor throttle, mash brake, turn in, floor throttle. Sorry, but the 996RS is so much more interesting than that.... It's about getting the best from you to access devastating on road performance which makes it a BRILLIANT long-term ownership proposition (that's why a CGT is just soo much more interesting than an Enzo).
It's the last RS.
After 6RS, Porsche started, iteratively and slowly, building cars around electronic inputs instead of driver inputs. That made for progressively faster and less rewarding cars....
I'm going to buy another one.
Edited by Murcielago_Boy on Friday 18th July 16:01
Edited by Murcielago_Boy on Friday 18th July 16:02
Murcielago_Boy said:
I couldn't let this thread pass without offering up my own experience.
I owned a 996RS for two years purchased after a Mk 2 996 GT3.
I live in Central London.
I used it totally indiscriminately - on occasion, as a daily driver, to commute, to shop - couldn't care less.
I've had quite a few Ferrari's since then (scuds, etc) and other exotica etc and driven cars like the CGT, F40, Enzo etc comprehensively (especially the former two). I've actually got a modified Scud (wheels, susp, exhaust) atm. However, for me the 6RS for me remains THE car.
Amen.I owned a 996RS for two years purchased after a Mk 2 996 GT3.
I live in Central London.
I used it totally indiscriminately - on occasion, as a daily driver, to commute, to shop - couldn't care less.
I've had quite a few Ferrari's since then (scuds, etc) and other exotica etc and driven cars like the CGT, F40, Enzo etc comprehensively (especially the former two). I've actually got a modified Scud (wheels, susp, exhaust) atm. However, for me the 6RS for me remains THE car.
I'm obviously biased but I also think that the Mk1 is similarly special. What it gives up in the last degree of sharpness and connectedness to the RS it makes up for by way of an overall homogenity or rightness in the sum of all its parts. It's fluidity and suppleness is its trump card and it plays that card whilst still retaining a very bespoke, special, racecar-derived feel.
JarmoL said:
I bought this KW Clubsport set up from Ade. He said is has Manthey spec. Anyway the numbers are correct for this set up, those are stamped on the springs. And I have helper springs as well of course, 60Nm from memory. Those are fully compressed when the car is stationary so they just keep the main springs seated if catching air. 
Sorry for OT btw. But yes, the ride comfort is better with KW's compared to original Bilsteins even if the springs are stiffer.
Ah, Clubsports. Interesting, the non-Manthey version have 80N/mm front springs. Thanks for the response, been trying to find info on the Manthey bits for a while!Sorry for OT btw. But yes, the ride comfort is better with KW's compared to original Bilsteins even if the springs are stiffer.
jackal said:
Amen.
I'm obviously biased but I also think that the Mk1 is similarly special. What it gives up in the last degree of sharpness and connectedness to the RS it makes up for by way of an overall homogenity or rightness in the sum of all its parts. It's fluidity and suppleness is its trump card and it plays that card whilst still retaining a very bespoke, special, racecar-derived feel.
I think that all 6GT3's are special. I regret selling my MK1. Wonderful carI'm obviously biased but I also think that the Mk1 is similarly special. What it gives up in the last degree of sharpness and connectedness to the RS it makes up for by way of an overall homogenity or rightness in the sum of all its parts. It's fluidity and suppleness is its trump card and it plays that card whilst still retaining a very bespoke, special, racecar-derived feel.
Slippydiff said:
LaSource said:
Slippy, happy to line up a 4.0. 6RS, and 6GT3 for a unique comparison across the range...you do the write up.
4.0 is standard
6RS is standard apart from cup diff plates and a mildly pointy geo to my preference
6GT3 has GiroDisc brakes, cup diff plates, and Nitron dampers with dual springs (much stiffer than standard...but the helper springs make it road friendly) with an aggressive geo.
Sounds a plan. Deal. 4.0 is standard
6RS is standard apart from cup diff plates and a mildly pointy geo to my preference
6GT3 has GiroDisc brakes, cup diff plates, and Nitron dampers with dual springs (much stiffer than standard...but the helper springs make it road friendly) with an aggressive geo.
I genuinely wish we had more threads like this on PH. In the space of three pages there's been a wealth of information both proffered and dissected, and all with good grace. It's real pleasure to find owners willing to put pen to paper to explain their thoughts and findings having owned, lived with and driven these superb cars.
I agree wholeheartedly with Steve, the 996 GT3 cars (in all their iterations) marked a high point in Porsche AG's ability to produce an analogue road/track car. If I could've held onto my Manthey Mk1, I would've done, but alas the funds are needed elsewhere, and faced with the choice of selling the GT3 or the 964 RS, I considered the 964 the better "investment".
For me a massive part of the joy of owning the Manthey GT3 was that it wasn't a garage queen. I used it hard and enjoyed it accordingly, it collected a lot of battle scars along the way, but when you're enjoying the time spend behind the wheel so much, not even they mattered.
My 964 RS is regrettably a garage queen, and though I'm all too aware these cars were built to be driven, doing so in the manner the car deserves, would only serve to devalue it now.
On the positive side, I'm now on my fourth 964 RS, I consider myself very lucky to have been able to drive the other three examples whilst not hamstrung by their values. My first Midnight blue example cost me the princely sum of £23K back in 2001. Suffice to say, it was enjoyed to the maximum (I even did a track day in it ! !)
As someone mentioned, with 996 GT3 RS prices heading towards the stratosphere, it'll mean that many/most ? will now disappear inside Carcoons or under car covers. I guess that's the downside of the rapidly increasing values.
Damn, I've just introduced the V word into the thread .........
I've never driven an RS, would love to. If it's like the GT2 then a softer front / stiffer rear spring rate will help. Although the progressives from my Exe-tc managed GT2 work well. The shriek of the N/A engine is quite appealing and I think the RS looks immense.
Just to add in a little of my musings while I sit in an airport lounge..
I ( along with my wife) took a 3,300 mile road trip in a 996.2 GT3 with RS wing and a bunch of upgrades (mono balls etc) running on 80N/mm, 120N/mm spring rates (and adjustable shocks). We drove over a mixture of road types and surfaces, many of which were far from perfect and in all sorts of weather (Desert with 115degF+ temp, dirt tracks, rain and hail storms etc) on PS2 tyres and the car was never short of impeccable. Geo/ride height was setup to what would most definitely be called "track". I would call it "in the window".
A cage and bucket seats did nothing to reduce the enjoyment of the journey and remained comfortable throughout. Fitting a cooler into the back of the car each day remained a faff but can hardly be considered a negative.
The only issue on the whole trip was hitting a coyote that had already been hit by a truck partially knocked off the splitter and I had to reattach it before continuing the next morning (and enjoying a lovely coyote bio-juice soup all over my hands and arms in the process).
This car was also used daily (though not the only car) and performed wonderfully in that use. The one caveat being scrapping the nose on steep entries once in a while would always provide an accompanying uncomfortable grimace. I struggle to think of a single car that is better to get into as a driver and can operate in this way.
This car was not a track car in any respect, I had it set up simply to where it represented the most enjoyable drive. I only ever tracked it once and briefly. But then I have Cups and in that company on a track it was never going to satisfy.
On a more general vein, and in perhaps more relevant fashion to this thread..
These cars are incredibly tuneable with respect to behaviour and as a result highly dependent on setup. Not only in order to operate properly (i.e. the correct basic geo) but also to work with driving style.
I have to assume that those that find them anything other than sublime are either:
A) totally in the wrong car (and thats fine but realise it rather than project blame to the GT3); or
B) have a car that is poorly set up (and that means as much for them as it does having the correct fundamental settings).
Too often I see cars that are setup on their nose and thus excruciatingly terrible to drive. You gain what feels like wonderful turn in but actually have a car with no rear grip when it really matters (and that is allowing for street cars which are generally better more on their nose than Cups are). It makes for a terrifying drive in my view and I certainly never enjoy any time in a GT3 set up this way. Others may of course love it this way. One can see where disappointment could arise if someone looking for one alternative found themselves in the other.
This holds for all the 996 GT3 versions and I would wager a significant contributor to much of the discontent one hears from time to time. Reading Henrys post just screams that this is the case in his instance. I have never found a 996 RS any different from a regular car in terms of actual feel (apart from the rear wing downforce improvement which I have mentioned previously) but the additional presentation from the drivers seat certainly makes it feel that bit more of an event to be out in one.
One also needs to remember that everyone comes to a car with differing expectations and experiences. I left my car above with someone for a week and upon returning was surprised to hear them suggest that it felt like an animal hunting out the road. They enjoyed it but it had been mixed with trepidation each time they drove and a lingering sense of being wary of it. A quick drive (admittedly because I assumed they had broken it in some fashion) revealed that it was still just fine and as benign as before, certainly no more aggressive than a regular C4 for example under general use. Their car history is very much made up of hatchbacks and SUVs with the resultant overload that any sports car would have brought. To hear them talk of their time with a GT3 would be to think of being tied on to a wild animal and just holding on for the ride, hardly representative and yet this was reality for them.
My own personal view is that all of the 996 GT3s represent something very special in terms of sports cars. The later cars, while offering more performance and a wider envelope do not match the 996 varieties in terms of the drive. It is a car that offers many facets to a driver willing to learn coupled to a direct link with motorsport that seldom occurs and always creates something special. It is not a car that can be measured by a clock and those wishing to only mark them in this way are not only missing the point but heading very much for disappointment. This held when the car was new of course but it is something that is especially relevant today.
One last thought on what has ended up a much longer post than I had intended. With the wick turned up just a bit one can have what must be in a very short list as one of the greatest drivers ever. Take a ferrari esque approach - dial up the specialness, knock back a touch of daily comfort but not enough to just handicap the whole thing and it is just sublime. This is the approach I was after with my project car. I could have easily built the same project using a 997 model (and for less overall outlay) or pushed the envelope on an air cooled car but the 996 represents a moment where many things came together in one of those rare moments of magic and it left it a simple decision.
I ( along with my wife) took a 3,300 mile road trip in a 996.2 GT3 with RS wing and a bunch of upgrades (mono balls etc) running on 80N/mm, 120N/mm spring rates (and adjustable shocks). We drove over a mixture of road types and surfaces, many of which were far from perfect and in all sorts of weather (Desert with 115degF+ temp, dirt tracks, rain and hail storms etc) on PS2 tyres and the car was never short of impeccable. Geo/ride height was setup to what would most definitely be called "track". I would call it "in the window".
A cage and bucket seats did nothing to reduce the enjoyment of the journey and remained comfortable throughout. Fitting a cooler into the back of the car each day remained a faff but can hardly be considered a negative.
The only issue on the whole trip was hitting a coyote that had already been hit by a truck partially knocked off the splitter and I had to reattach it before continuing the next morning (and enjoying a lovely coyote bio-juice soup all over my hands and arms in the process).
This car was also used daily (though not the only car) and performed wonderfully in that use. The one caveat being scrapping the nose on steep entries once in a while would always provide an accompanying uncomfortable grimace. I struggle to think of a single car that is better to get into as a driver and can operate in this way.
This car was not a track car in any respect, I had it set up simply to where it represented the most enjoyable drive. I only ever tracked it once and briefly. But then I have Cups and in that company on a track it was never going to satisfy.
On a more general vein, and in perhaps more relevant fashion to this thread..
These cars are incredibly tuneable with respect to behaviour and as a result highly dependent on setup. Not only in order to operate properly (i.e. the correct basic geo) but also to work with driving style.
I have to assume that those that find them anything other than sublime are either:
A) totally in the wrong car (and thats fine but realise it rather than project blame to the GT3); or
B) have a car that is poorly set up (and that means as much for them as it does having the correct fundamental settings).
Too often I see cars that are setup on their nose and thus excruciatingly terrible to drive. You gain what feels like wonderful turn in but actually have a car with no rear grip when it really matters (and that is allowing for street cars which are generally better more on their nose than Cups are). It makes for a terrifying drive in my view and I certainly never enjoy any time in a GT3 set up this way. Others may of course love it this way. One can see where disappointment could arise if someone looking for one alternative found themselves in the other.
This holds for all the 996 GT3 versions and I would wager a significant contributor to much of the discontent one hears from time to time. Reading Henrys post just screams that this is the case in his instance. I have never found a 996 RS any different from a regular car in terms of actual feel (apart from the rear wing downforce improvement which I have mentioned previously) but the additional presentation from the drivers seat certainly makes it feel that bit more of an event to be out in one.
One also needs to remember that everyone comes to a car with differing expectations and experiences. I left my car above with someone for a week and upon returning was surprised to hear them suggest that it felt like an animal hunting out the road. They enjoyed it but it had been mixed with trepidation each time they drove and a lingering sense of being wary of it. A quick drive (admittedly because I assumed they had broken it in some fashion) revealed that it was still just fine and as benign as before, certainly no more aggressive than a regular C4 for example under general use. Their car history is very much made up of hatchbacks and SUVs with the resultant overload that any sports car would have brought. To hear them talk of their time with a GT3 would be to think of being tied on to a wild animal and just holding on for the ride, hardly representative and yet this was reality for them.
My own personal view is that all of the 996 GT3s represent something very special in terms of sports cars. The later cars, while offering more performance and a wider envelope do not match the 996 varieties in terms of the drive. It is a car that offers many facets to a driver willing to learn coupled to a direct link with motorsport that seldom occurs and always creates something special. It is not a car that can be measured by a clock and those wishing to only mark them in this way are not only missing the point but heading very much for disappointment. This held when the car was new of course but it is something that is especially relevant today.
One last thought on what has ended up a much longer post than I had intended. With the wick turned up just a bit one can have what must be in a very short list as one of the greatest drivers ever. Take a ferrari esque approach - dial up the specialness, knock back a touch of daily comfort but not enough to just handicap the whole thing and it is just sublime. This is the approach I was after with my project car. I could have easily built the same project using a 997 model (and for less overall outlay) or pushed the envelope on an air cooled car but the 996 represents a moment where many things came together in one of those rare moments of magic and it left it a simple decision.
Edited by fioran0 on Sunday 20th July 15:48
C
I'm sure it's by no coincidence that for a 'long good hard drive' my wife much prefers when I have chosen that we take the 6GT3RS - and this is from a middle aged woman who does not relish discomfort!
The car has always come across superbly on the road to my mind and has never done a dis-service to itself in comparison to others.
fioran0 said:
Just to add in a little.
I ( along with my wife) took a 3,300 mile road trip in a 996.2 GT3 with RS wing and a bunch of upgrades (mono balls etc) running on 80N/mm, 120N/mm spring rates (and adjustable shocks). We drove over a mixture of road types and surfaces, many of which were far from perfect and in all sorts of weather (Desert with 115degF+ temp, dirt tracks, rain and hail storms etc) on PS2 tyres and the car was never short of impeccable. Geo/ride height was setup to what would most definitely be called "track". I would call it "in the window".
A cage and bucket seats did nothing to dampen the journey and remained comfortable throughout. Fitting a cooler into the back of the car each day remained a faff but can hardly be considered a negative.
The only issue on the whole trip was that hitting a coyote that had already been hit by a truck partially knocked off the splitter and I had to reattach it before continuing the next morning (and enjoying a lovely coyote bio-juice soup all over my hands and arms in the process).
This car was also used daily (though not the only car) and performed wonderfully in that use. The one caveat being scrapping the nose on steep entries once in a while would always provide an accompanying uncomfortable grimace. I struggle to think of a single car that is better to get into as a driver and can operate in this way.
This car was not a track car in any respect, I had it set up simply to where it represented the most enjoyable drive. I only ever tracked it once and briefly. But then I have Cups and in that company on a track it was never going to satisfy.
On a more general vein, and in perhaps more relevant fashion to this thread..
These cars are incredibly tuneable with respect to behaviour and as a result highly dependent on setup. Not only in order to operate properly (i.e. the correct basic geo) but also to work with driving style.
I have to assume that those that find them anything other than sublime are either:
A) totally in the wrong car (and thats fine but realise it rather than project blame to the GT3); or
B) have a car that is poorly set up (and that means as much for them as it does having the correct fundamental settings).
Too often I see cars that are setup on their nose and thus excruciatingly terrible to drive. You gain what feels like wonderful turn in but actually have a car with no rear grip when it really matters (and that is allowing for street cars which are generally better more on their nose than Cups are). It makes for a terrifying drive in my view and I certainly never enjoy any time in a GT3 set up this way. Others may of course love it this way. One can see where disappointment could arise if someone looking for one alternative found themselves in the other.
This holds for all the 996 GT3 versions and I would wager a significant contributor to much of the discontent one hears from time to time. Reading Henrys post just screams that this is the case in his instance. I have never found a 996 RS any different from a regular car in terms of actual feel (apart from the rear wing downforce improvement which I have mentioned previously) but the additional presentation from the drivers seat certainly makes it feel that bit more of an event to be out in one.
One also needs to remember that everyone comes to a car with differing expectations and experiences. I left my car above with someone for a week and upon returning was surprised to hear them suggest that it felt like an animal hunting out the road. They enjoyed it but it had been mixed with trepidation each time they drove and a lingering sense of being wary of it. A quick drive (admittedly because I assumed they had broken it in some fashion) revealed that it was still just fine and as benign as before, certainly no more aggressive than a regular C4 for example under general use. Their car history is very much made up of hatchbacks and SUVs with the resultant overload that any sports car would have brought. To hear them talk of their time with a GT3 would be to think of being tied on to a wild animal and just holding on for the ride, hardly representative and yet this was reality for them.
My own personal view is that all of the 996 GT3s represent something very special in terms of sports cars. The later cars, while offering more performance and a wider envelope do not match the 996 varieties in terms of the drive. It is a car that offers many facets to a driver willing to learn coupled to a direct link with motorsport that seldom occurs and always creates something special. It is not a car that can be measured by a clock and those wishing to only mark them in this way are not only missing the point but heading very much for disappointment. This held when the car was new of course but it is something that is especially relevant today.
One last thought on what has ended up a much longer post than I had intended. With the wick turned up just a bit one can have what must be in a very short list as one of the greatest drivers ever. Take a ferrari esque approach - dial up the specialness, knock back a touch of daily comfort but not enough to just handicap the whole thing and it is just sublime. This is the approach I was after with my project car. I could have easily built the same project using a 997 model (and for less overall outlay) or pushed the envelope on an air cooled car but the 996 represents a moment where many things came together in one of those rare moments of magic and it left it a simple decision.
Nice post and excellent summation IMO. I ( along with my wife) took a 3,300 mile road trip in a 996.2 GT3 with RS wing and a bunch of upgrades (mono balls etc) running on 80N/mm, 120N/mm spring rates (and adjustable shocks). We drove over a mixture of road types and surfaces, many of which were far from perfect and in all sorts of weather (Desert with 115degF+ temp, dirt tracks, rain and hail storms etc) on PS2 tyres and the car was never short of impeccable. Geo/ride height was setup to what would most definitely be called "track". I would call it "in the window".
A cage and bucket seats did nothing to dampen the journey and remained comfortable throughout. Fitting a cooler into the back of the car each day remained a faff but can hardly be considered a negative.
The only issue on the whole trip was that hitting a coyote that had already been hit by a truck partially knocked off the splitter and I had to reattach it before continuing the next morning (and enjoying a lovely coyote bio-juice soup all over my hands and arms in the process).
This car was also used daily (though not the only car) and performed wonderfully in that use. The one caveat being scrapping the nose on steep entries once in a while would always provide an accompanying uncomfortable grimace. I struggle to think of a single car that is better to get into as a driver and can operate in this way.
This car was not a track car in any respect, I had it set up simply to where it represented the most enjoyable drive. I only ever tracked it once and briefly. But then I have Cups and in that company on a track it was never going to satisfy.
On a more general vein, and in perhaps more relevant fashion to this thread..
These cars are incredibly tuneable with respect to behaviour and as a result highly dependent on setup. Not only in order to operate properly (i.e. the correct basic geo) but also to work with driving style.
I have to assume that those that find them anything other than sublime are either:
A) totally in the wrong car (and thats fine but realise it rather than project blame to the GT3); or
B) have a car that is poorly set up (and that means as much for them as it does having the correct fundamental settings).
Too often I see cars that are setup on their nose and thus excruciatingly terrible to drive. You gain what feels like wonderful turn in but actually have a car with no rear grip when it really matters (and that is allowing for street cars which are generally better more on their nose than Cups are). It makes for a terrifying drive in my view and I certainly never enjoy any time in a GT3 set up this way. Others may of course love it this way. One can see where disappointment could arise if someone looking for one alternative found themselves in the other.
This holds for all the 996 GT3 versions and I would wager a significant contributor to much of the discontent one hears from time to time. Reading Henrys post just screams that this is the case in his instance. I have never found a 996 RS any different from a regular car in terms of actual feel (apart from the rear wing downforce improvement which I have mentioned previously) but the additional presentation from the drivers seat certainly makes it feel that bit more of an event to be out in one.
One also needs to remember that everyone comes to a car with differing expectations and experiences. I left my car above with someone for a week and upon returning was surprised to hear them suggest that it felt like an animal hunting out the road. They enjoyed it but it had been mixed with trepidation each time they drove and a lingering sense of being wary of it. A quick drive (admittedly because I assumed they had broken it in some fashion) revealed that it was still just fine and as benign as before, certainly no more aggressive than a regular C4 for example under general use. Their car history is very much made up of hatchbacks and SUVs with the resultant overload that any sports car would have brought. To hear them talk of their time with a GT3 would be to think of being tied on to a wild animal and just holding on for the ride, hardly representative and yet this was reality for them.
My own personal view is that all of the 996 GT3s represent something very special in terms of sports cars. The later cars, while offering more performance and a wider envelope do not match the 996 varieties in terms of the drive. It is a car that offers many facets to a driver willing to learn coupled to a direct link with motorsport that seldom occurs and always creates something special. It is not a car that can be measured by a clock and those wishing to only mark them in this way are not only missing the point but heading very much for disappointment. This held when the car was new of course but it is something that is especially relevant today.
One last thought on what has ended up a much longer post than I had intended. With the wick turned up just a bit one can have what must be in a very short list as one of the greatest drivers ever. Take a ferrari esque approach - dial up the specialness, knock back a touch of daily comfort but not enough to just handicap the whole thing and it is just sublime. This is the approach I was after with my project car. I could have easily built the same project using a 997 model (and for less overall outlay) or pushed the envelope on an air cooled car but the 996 represents a moment where many things came together in one of those rare moments of magic and it left it a simple decision.
I'm sure it's by no coincidence that for a 'long good hard drive' my wife much prefers when I have chosen that we take the 6GT3RS - and this is from a middle aged woman who does not relish discomfort!
The car has always come across superbly on the road to my mind and has never done a dis-service to itself in comparison to others.
In fewer words.
Bought a 2004 GT3RS in 2007.
Since then have done
Monza track day x2
Imola track day x1
Spa track day x 7
Nurburgring Touristfahten and track days x 7
Budapest track day x 1
Anglesey track day x3
Donington track day x 4
Cadwell track day x1
Pau track day x 1
Mas de Clos track day x1
Various visits to Bergerac.
All driven to and from. No trailers were used.
So I guess its not a bad track car and Euro tourer.
Bought a 2004 GT3RS in 2007.
Since then have done
Monza track day x2
Imola track day x1
Spa track day x 7
Nurburgring Touristfahten and track days x 7
Budapest track day x 1
Anglesey track day x3
Donington track day x 4
Cadwell track day x1
Pau track day x 1
Mas de Clos track day x1
Various visits to Bergerac.
All driven to and from. No trailers were used.
So I guess its not a bad track car and Euro tourer.
Lovely.
I do hope that you continue to use the Old Girl as the Chaps at Porsche intended Old Boy?!
Now 'that the line them up and polish them all day' bregade have 'discovered' them, I fear that too few will be left in the hands of the 'drive fast and scare yourself stupid' contigent of our broard little church..
I do hope that you continue to use the Old Girl as the Chaps at Porsche intended Old Boy?!
Now 'that the line them up and polish them all day' bregade have 'discovered' them, I fear that too few will be left in the hands of the 'drive fast and scare yourself stupid' contigent of our broard little church..
Steve Rance said:
Lovely.
I do hope that you continue to use the Old Girl as the Chaps at Porsche intended Old Boy?!
Now 'that the line them up and polish them all day' bregade have 'discovered' them, I fear that too few will be left in the hands of the 'drive fast and scare yourself stupid' contigent of our broard little church..
Interestingly, my local tech who are currently doing a full engine rebuild suggested I leave the battlescars in place on my car (all of them picked up in racing): a wonky rear bumper, a crack in the carbon fibre on one of the fenders, a scratch here and there. They felt (as I do) that it was all part of the charm and provenance of the car.I do hope that you continue to use the Old Girl as the Chaps at Porsche intended Old Boy?!
Now 'that the line them up and polish them all day' bregade have 'discovered' them, I fear that too few will be left in the hands of the 'drive fast and scare yourself stupid' contigent of our broard little church..
Providing there's nothing material to worry about (like evidence of rust), I kind of like the idea of as-new mechanicals underneath the patinated body.
I hear the Classic Sports Car Club are now running a post-2000 production car race series. Very tempting.
seawise said:
nonsense, off to Spa and the 'ring next weekend.
You are a bad man!!!My new to me LHD 996.1 CS K400 and Cup everything else is still awaiting the paperwork from the DVLA in the garage, while the weather is perfect for getting lost on the one way toll road between Adenau and eerrr Adenau
Shutting down the local office is nothing but a joke as I now have to rely on the Welsh...
I have had the same car rejected twice by the DVLA because the muppet/s configured a o and an 0 wrongly and an s and a 5.. you couldnt make it up. This took five weeks to resolve because it wouldnt clear NOVA 1.
In Germany my friend imports a car, takes it to the TUV, goes to the very local registry office and has the licence/ plate ready on the same fricking day.
Our record is FIVE months for one car to be registered since DVLA local offices closed.....
In Germany my friend imports a car, takes it to the TUV, goes to the very local registry office and has the licence/ plate ready on the same fricking day.
Our record is FIVE months for one car to be registered since DVLA local offices closed.....
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