What’s the right price for a 991.2 GT3 ?

What’s the right price for a 991.2 GT3 ?

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Discussion

nw942

269 posts

50 months

Monday 22nd April
quotequote all
I was considering moving from a .1 to a .2, but the cost to change is going to be circa £50k for a decent spec at OPC prices.

Even if I assume that the .2 is better in every way, that £50k could buy me a completely different driving experience in the form of a Caterham or Exige.

nw942

269 posts

50 months

Monday 22nd April
quotequote all
Cheib said:
The .2 in CS form is definitely the most desirable/sort after 997 GT3.

Perception will become reality (in terms of prices) I think for the 991.1....it’s tainted I think and obviously these things become exaggerated but you do read of people with multiple engine failures....which seem to be associated with track use from what I have read a few times? I think the older these cars get the more the owners are people that want to drive track them so I do think it’s an issue long term fo the cars in terms of price differential on that basis.
Macca993 makes a couple of posts on the subject here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=17...

I guess auto in PDK Sport is best avoided.

FocusRS3

2,899 posts

36 months

Monday 22nd April
quotequote all
nw942 said:
I was considering moving from a .1 to a .2, but the cost to change is going to be circa £50k for a decent spec at OPC prices.

Even if I assume that the .2 is better in every way, that £50k could buy me a completely different driving experience in the form of a Caterham or Exige.
Point well made .

Checked earlier and the 134k Gen 2 has no cage and very basic spec . Personally I’d want a decent spec car which as you say is a 50k change.

Question is what’s the downside on a current 105k gen 1.

I’m still quite astonished that the gen 2 997.2 sells for north or 991.1 money

JulierPass

349 posts

175 months

Monday 22nd April
quotequote all
Blowfish said:
Where do you guys think prices are at now for manual well specced 991.2 GT3?

The cars advertised for sale seem to be pretty much the same ones for last 4 months...
In answer to the question, the truth is premiums are evaporating fast. Cars with very few miles (a few hundred) with all the bits people seem to want are getting somewhere in the 150's. However, the differential between these cars and cars that have done circa 5000 miles with the same spec is circa 25 to 30k. So the future depreciation is now quite visible for would-be buyers. IMO the market will settle around list this time next year for cars with 4000 to 10k miles.

Look at what has happened to 991.1 RS prices. Cars with no miles are selling for up to 190K. but cars with 6000 miles are being sold for somewhere between 150 to 160K.

Who would buy a car in this climate and be prepared to lose circa 30k in 5000 miles? I accept that this sort of depreciation was the norm just over 5 years ago, but we have a different kind of buyer in today's market.

Juno

3,653 posts

194 months

Monday 22nd April
quotequote all
FocusRS3 said:
nw942 said:
I was considering moving from a .1 to a .2, but the cost to change is going to be circa £50k for a decent spec at OPC prices.

Even if I assume that the .2 is better in every way, that £50k could buy me a completely different driving experience in the form of a Caterham or Exige.
Point well made .

Checked earlier and the 134k Gen 2 has no cage and very basic spec . Personally I’d want a decent spec car which as you say is a 50k change.

Question is what’s the downside on a current 105k gen 1.

I’m still quite astonished that the gen 2 997.2 sells for north or 991.1 money
The Exige is something I’ve been eyeing up and I can see the appeal. Here’s a .2 997 sub 991 prices and it’s been for sale for 6 months or more https://www.gravelwood.co.uk/used/cars/porsche/911...

Here’s his review and he put it up for sale straight after, from his comments I don’t think he likes it https://youtu.be/xgtB4tcdVEw


Edited by Juno on Monday 22 April 21:12

av185

9,159 posts

72 months

Monday 22nd April
quotequote all
JulierPass said:
In answer to the question, the truth is premiums are evaporating fast. Cars with very few miles (a few hundred) with all the bits people seem to want are getting somewhere in the 150's. However, the differential between these cars and cars that have done circa 5000 miles with the same spec is circa 25 to 30k. So the future depreciation is now quite visible for would-be buyers. IMO the market will settle around list this time next year for cars with 4000 to 10k miles.

Look at what has happened to 991.1 RS prices. Cars with no miles are selling for up to 190K. but cars with 6000 miles are being sold for somewhere between 150 to 160K.

Who would buy a car in this climate and be prepared to lose circa 30k in 5000 miles? I accept that this sort of depreciation was the norm just over 5 years ago, but we have a different kind of buyer in today's market.
Very low mileage (say c300 mile)18 plate clubsports with the rarer manual transmission of the correct spec sell for early £160ks.

Please show me a c5k mile similar spec and age car at £132500.

They don't exist.


hunter 66

2,810 posts

165 months

Monday 22nd April
quotequote all
Fully agree if you do not drive it ( best spec is no miles ) ........ it is better for re-sale , BUT who cares

blackmamba

553 posts

181 months

Monday 22nd April
quotequote all
av185 said:
JulierPass said:
In answer to the question, the truth is premiums are evaporating fast. Cars with very few miles (a few hundred) with all the bits people seem to want are getting somewhere in the 150's. However, the differential between these cars and cars that have done circa 5000 miles with the same spec is circa 25 to 30k. So the future depreciation is now quite visible for would-be buyers. IMO the market will settle around list this time next year for cars with 4000 to 10k miles.

Look at what has happened to 991.1 RS prices. Cars with no miles are selling for up to 190K. but cars with 6000 miles are being sold for somewhere between 150 to 160K.

Who would buy a car in this climate and be prepared to lose circa 30k in 5000 miles? I accept that this sort of depreciation was the norm just over 5 years ago, but we have a different kind of buyer in today's market.
Very low mileage (say c300 mile)18 plate clubsports with the rarer manual transmission of the correct spec sell for early £160ks.

Please show me a c5k mile similar spec and age car at £132500.

They don't exist.
2 such cars were offered on another forum recently for £135k and ended up being traded to dealers for circa £130k. They do exist, you just need to keep a look out and move quickly.



Edited by blackmamba on Monday 22 April 23:38

Cheib

16,784 posts

120 months

Tuesday 23rd April
quotequote all
blackmamba said:
av185 said:
JulierPass said:
In answer to the question, the truth is premiums are evaporating fast. Cars with very few miles (a few hundred) with all the bits people seem to want are getting somewhere in the 150's. However, the differential between these cars and cars that have done circa 5000 miles with the same spec is circa 25 to 30k. So the future depreciation is now quite visible for would-be buyers. IMO the market will settle around list this time next year for cars with 4000 to 10k miles.

Look at what has happened to 991.1 RS prices. Cars with no miles are selling for up to 190K. but cars with 6000 miles are being sold for somewhere between 150 to 160K.

Who would buy a car in this climate and be prepared to lose circa 30k in 5000 miles? I accept that this sort of depreciation was the norm just over 5 years ago, but we have a different kind of buyer in today's market.
Very low mileage (say c300 mile)18 plate clubsports with the rarer manual transmission of the correct spec sell for early £160ks.

Please show me a c5k mile similar spec and age car at £132500.

They don't exist.
2 such cars were offered on another forum recently for £135k and ended up being traded to dealers for circa £130k. They do exist, you just need to keep a look out and move quickly.



Edited by blackmamba on Monday 22 April 23:38
The original post implied that if you bought a car from a dealer for £160k and did 5kmiles it would cost you £30k.

What you’re saying is you can buy privately in the £130k area which isn’t the same thing. £130k is presumably at or very close to the trade bid and is probably the RRP of these cars when new.

If you buy a car for £155k with 500 miles on it and do zero mileage all things sty the same that’s a £130k car in six months time purely because that’s the dealers profit margin. Nothing to do with mileage.

So you can currently buy a car from a dealer for £155k to £160k or if you are lucky pick one up from a private seller for £130k.


Edited by Cheib on Tuesday 23 April 09:01

hunter 66

2,810 posts

165 months

Tuesday 23rd April
quotequote all
Julierpass , hit the nail on the head , there is now a different type of Porsche Buyer and sadly they are not users , simply it is just too much about loss of money .
Tiresome ...

TDT

1,646 posts

64 months

Tuesday 23rd April
quotequote all
hunter 66 said:
Tiresome ...
Exactly... lets have a driving thread please...you know - where people actually run the motor, turn the steering wheel proceed in a a forward and sideways motion, and exterminate some bugs.

av185

9,159 posts

72 months

Tuesday 23rd April
quotequote all
blackmamba said:
2 such cars were offered on another forum recently for £135k and ended up being traded to dealers for circa £130k. They do exist, you just need to keep a look out and move quickly.



Edited by blackmamba on Monday 22 April 23:38
Link needed proving spec age and mileage. coffee

Otherwise figure do not stack up and it's just another case of imaginary cars and armchair dreaming by some hopefuls.

Worth pointing out as ever spec is king.

Not selling but I have recently been offered without prompting £145k trade by 2 OPCs for my good spec 18 18 2.5k 'manuel' clubsport which they would retail at between £155k and £157k. A 5k mileage car if otherwise the same would be £150k to £152k.

This is a 991.2 GT3 pricing thread btw if anyone is in doubt just read the thread title.

Plenty of GT3 driving threads around too which we all like to contribute to.

Edited by av185 on Tuesday 23 April 12:39


Edited by av185 on Tuesday 23 April 12:42

JulierPass

349 posts

175 months

Tuesday 23rd April
quotequote all
av185 said:
blackmamba said:
2 such cars were offered on another forum recently for £135k and ended up being traded to dealers for circa £130k. They do exist, you just need to keep a look out and move quickly.



Edited by blackmamba on Monday 22 April 23:38
Link needed proving spec age and mileage.

Not selling but I have recently been offered without prompting £145k trade by 2 OPCs for my good spec 18 18 2.5k 'manuel' clubsport which they would retail at between £155k and £157k.
I have an 18 plate 991.2 manual club sport as well, so I have no axe to grind over values.

It's quite simple. If you went and bought a sub 3000 mile car, at the values you have mentioned today, then ACTUALLY USED the car you will stand to lose 30K if you then traded it in 18 or so months later at a Porsche dealer. I accept if you own a high-quality car dealership then you may be able to mitigate the depreciation slightly, but the fact of the matter is the majority of us just hand one car back and get another. So the trade value is very important.

Your car at 2.5K miles, with respect, hasn't been used hence it's inflated value. I've had mine 13 or so months and have done nearly 9k miles in it. I've been buying these cars for over 15 years and have always put miles on them - road trips to Wales, Scottish borders, spa, the 'ring etc. etc. It's what they are for. I fully expect to get a below list at trade in when the time comes to change, but that will be the price of my enjoyment. And I'm sure my car will stick out like a sore thumb against all the other cars with ridiculously low mileage at sale time, but I'm not simply looking after it for the next owner!



Robbo66

3,419 posts

178 months

Tuesday 23rd April
quotequote all
JulierPass said:
I have an 18 plate 991.2 manual club sport as well, so I have no axe to grind over values.

It's quite simple. If you went and bought a sub 3000 mile car, at the values you have mentioned today, then ACTUALLY USED the car you will stand to lose 30K if you then traded it in 18 or so months later at a Porsche dealer. I accept if you own a high-quality car dealership then you may be able to mitigate the depreciation slightly, but the fact of the matter is the majority of us just hand one car back and get another. So the trade value is very important.

Your car at 2.5K miles, with respect, hasn't been used hence it's inflated value. I've had mine 13 or so months and have done nearly 9k miles in it. I've been buying these cars for over 15 years and have always put miles on them - road trips to Wales, Scottish borders, spa, the 'ring etc. etc. It's what they are for. I fully expect to get a below list at trade in when the time comes to change, but that will be the price of my enjoyment. And I'm sure my car will stick out like a sore thumb against all the other cars with ridiculously low mileage at sale time, but I'm not simply looking after it for the next owner!
What a refreshingly honest post. £30k is bang on, definitely mileage sensitive.

seawise

1,500 posts

151 months

Tuesday 23rd April
quotequote all
JulierPass said:
..., but I'm not simply looking after it for the next owner!
amen to that !

I used mine the other day and noted the miles click over 3 thou and thought 'what a plonker I am, not using this amazing car enough' - mark my words, in a very short space of time our freedom to use and how we use will be very different from today and then we'll really have cause to be miserable !

av185

9,159 posts

72 months

Tuesday 23rd April
quotequote all
JulierPass said:
Your car at 2.5K miles, with respect, hasn't been used hence it's inflated value. I've had mine 13 or so months and have done nearly 9k miles in it. I've been buying these cars for over 15 years and have always put miles on them - road trips to Wales, Scottish borders, spa, the 'ring etc. etc. It's what they are for. I fully expect to get a below list at trade in when the time comes to change, but that will be the price of my enjoyment. And I'm sure my car will stick out like a sore thumb against all the other cars with ridiculously low mileage at sale time, but I'm not simply looking after it for the next owner!
Fair point but I like many others am lucky enough to own a few other great cars alongside my 991.2 GT3 and unlike some others use my cars as I see fit and far exceed 9k miles p.a. in them overall. I am not looking after it for the next owner as I consider the gen 2 to be the sweet spot of Porsches line-up and the car is a keeper for now at least.

It is interesting that it is no surprise that no-one as yet has provided proof of these imaginary cars being for sale at the imaginary bargain prices they claim, as expected.

But we have, of course, heard all these wild armchair claims before. rolleyes

throt

1,978 posts

115 months

Tuesday 23rd April
quotequote all
I was filling up in a station at the weekend and a guy pulled up in a 997.2 GT3. He said, wow, a 991.2 GT3 out for a drive. So mine and his GT3, made it 2 at the same time in a station filling up. Shock and horror , haha..
Absolute no point in having one if your not going to use it, imo. They are such a blast to drive, the guys not using them are missing out, they are that much fun.

991.2 GT3 is probably the best all round car Porsche has ever made. You can use it everyday for everything, other than going down the dump of course.

Geoffrey 321

236 posts

11 months

Tuesday 23rd April
quotequote all
throt said:
991.2 GT3 is probably the best all round car Porsche has ever made. You can use it everyday for everything, other than going down the dump of course.
Christ, I don't think I'd like to use mine daily, I like a bit more comfort than that!

FocusRS3

2,899 posts

36 months

Tuesday 23rd April
quotequote all
throt said:
I was filling up in a station at the weekend and a guy pulled up in a 997.2 GT3. He said, wow, a 991.2 GT3 out for a drive. So mine and his GT3, made it 2 at the same time in a station filling up. Shock and horror , haha..
Absolute no point in having one if your not going to use it, imo. They are such a blast to drive, the guys not using them are missing out, they are that much fun.

991.2 GT3 is probably the best all round car Porsche has ever made. You can use it everyday for everything, other than going down the dump of course.
Two great 911's there .

The 997 sells for more than the 991.1 which must say something

GT3RS

396 posts

183 months

Tuesday 23rd April
quotequote all
Thumbs up for the 991.2 GT3 great car I have been lucky enough to have owned a few over the years including 991.1 GT3 and GT3RS.

All 991 GT cars are good, but a bit like the 997.1 and .2 GT3's the .2's are subtly different in a lot of ways and generally more resolved. For me the engine, suspension/ride/tyre improvements and rear wheel steering calibrations are the standout differences along with interior and drive train options/improvements (for PDK). For me they are worth a fair premium over a 991.1, but 50K more does sound a lot!

If the .1 engine top end does prove to be a concern, there will be a specialist fix or modification offered by JZM/9e/Hartech etc... that will alleviate fears after the 10 year warranty expires.
Whatever you choose you shouldn’t be disappointed they never fail to put a smile on my face whenever I drive them, enjoy whatever you decide to buy.