Manual GT3 - rev range advice

Manual GT3 - rev range advice

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Discussion

CloudStuff

Original Poster:

2,717 posts

71 months

Thursday 25th March
quotequote all
Greetings. I have put a deposit down on a Gen 2 manual GT3 in guards, with an OPC.

Please could I seek advice on ignitions in range 3?

I have read through the detail on the 911v site ( https://911virgin.com/engine-revs/)

As you can see, there are 4 ignitions in Range 3, so above a single engine rotation.

I understand that the key point is operating hours elapsed since the ignitions, I can't immediately decipher this based on the info available. The 'operating time' in range 3 surely can't be in minutes? Also, am I reading this right - the PIWIS report was run in Oct 2020?

Based on this information - would you buy or walk?

(Just for clarity - you can rule out any buyer's remorse motivation. It's a car I want, but I want to do my homework).




Twinfan

8,248 posts

71 months

Thursday 25th March
quotequote all
I would say 4 ignitions is an error, and I think there has been talk of errors in the logging?

CloudStuff

Original Poster:

2,717 posts

71 months

Thursday 25th March
quotequote all
Thanks Twinfan - is this a snapshot as at 07.10.2020?

Twinfan

8,248 posts

71 months

Thursday 25th March
quotequote all
I'm no expert but it looks that way, it must be the last time the car was hooked up to the system? The printout is dated today though.

Jefferson Steelflex

1,012 posts

66 months

Thursday 25th March
quotequote all
When I had this done on my 997.1 Turbo last year, the Overrev report stated the number of ignitions and the hours elapsed since that occurred. I guess didn't software reads the data differently, so in your pictures I wouldn't assume it's an error and you're just swapping hours for minutes on the report.

4 ignitions is feasible (mine had 8 recorded) and if the time elapsed is in minutes (276) then it happened under 5 hours ago?

OPCs will still warrant that engine I think?

TDT

2,999 posts

86 months

Thursday 25th March
quotequote all
Pretty sure the time recorded against the rev range is the time WHEN it last occurred, not the time since it occurred.

As it is 4 ignitions is probably an error and we are talking tenths or hundreds of a second.
There is a formula... and such a tiny number there works out to be negligible as the engine is still fine.
There is a formula for the increments between the rev ranges also, which is different for every engine type.... so you’ll have an idea of exact how far over it really was recorded at.

If you’re buying/bought from a OPC and they sold it to you with that report... you’ll be under warranty so any issue and you can take it back and say hey.. you sold it to me like this and it was acceptable for you to have done so.. with warranty.

Personally I wouldn’t have an issue if the OPC is providing a warranty, and like has been said it’s probably an error or negligible.

CloudStuff

Original Poster:

2,717 posts

71 months

Thursday 25th March
quotequote all
Twinfan said:
I'm no expert but it looks that way, it must be the last time the car was hooked up to the system? The printout is dated today though.
Cheers - I've asked for an up to date report. If that's good then away we go.

CloudStuff

Original Poster:

2,717 posts

71 months

Thursday 25th March
quotequote all
Jefferson Steelflex said:
When I had this done on my 997.1 Turbo last year, the Overrev report stated the number of ignitions and the hours elapsed since that occurred. I guess didn't software reads the data differently, so in your pictures I wouldn't assume it's an error and you're just swapping hours for minutes on the report.

4 ignitions is feasible (mine had 8 recorded) and if the time elapsed is in minutes (276) then it happened under 5 hours ago?

OPCs will still warrant that engine I think?
Yeah, they will put a warranty on it which gets me nearly there. I've learnt sadly to check a bit deeper when buying through an OPC though. Have the grey hairs to prove it's not always plain sailing!

CloudStuff

Original Poster:

2,717 posts

71 months

Thursday 25th March
quotequote all
TDT said:
Pretty sure the time recorded against the rev range is the time WHEN it last occurred, not the time since it occurred.

As it is 4 ignitions is probably an error and we are talking tenths or hundreds of a second.
There is a formula... and such a tiny number there works out to be negligible as the engine is still fine.
There is a formula for the increments between the rev ranges also, which is different for every engine type.... so you’ll have an idea of exact how far over it really was recorded at.

If you’re buying/bought from a OPC and they sold it to you with that report... you’ll be under warranty so any issue and you can take it back and say hey.. you sold it to me like this and it was acceptable for you to have done so.. with warranty.

Personally I wouldn’t have an issue if the OPC is providing a warranty, and like has been said it’s probably an error or negligible.
That mate - btw, it's Paul here, the carmine gts > carmine 911 bloke local to you.

All they now need to do is get me an up-to-date report and it should be fine. Looking forward to munching through tyres and getting on track!

TDT

2,999 posts

86 months

Thursday 25th March
quotequote all
CloudStuff said:
TDT said:
Pretty sure the time recorded against the rev range is the time WHEN it last occurred, not the time since it occurred.

As it is 4 ignitions is probably an error and we are talking tenths or hundreds of a second.
There is a formula... and such a tiny number there works out to be negligible as the engine is still fine.
There is a formula for the increments between the rev ranges also, which is different for every engine type.... so you’ll have an idea of exact how far over it really was recorded at.

If you’re buying/bought from a OPC and they sold it to you with that report... you’ll be under warranty so any issue and you can take it back and say hey.. you sold it to me like this and it was acceptable for you to have done so.. with warranty.

Personally I wouldn’t have an issue if the OPC is providing a warranty, and like has been said it’s probably an error or negligible.
That mate - btw, it's Paul here, the carmine gts > carmine 911 bloke local to you.

All they now need to do is get me an up-to-date report and it should be fine. Looking forward to munching through tyres and getting on track!
Messaged you.

CloudStuff

Original Poster:

2,717 posts

71 months

Thursday 25th March
quotequote all
TDT said:
Messaged you.
Thanks mate, was good to chat.

gtsralph

1,055 posts

111 months

Thursday 25th March
quotequote all
Reading the PIWIS output:

Operating Time is Hours

Overrevs are Minutes

Your should also look at the value against Z_201_ Maximum engine speed reached

Average speed is 22.6mph over 5,704 miles, I hope you'll do better. Mine bought with 6,044 miles was 20.4 mph

CloudStuff

Original Poster:

2,717 posts

71 months

Thursday 25th March
quotequote all
gtsralph said:
Reading the PIWIS output:

Operating Time is Hours

Overrevs are Minutes

Your should also look at the value against Z_201_ Maximum engine speed reached

Average speed is 22.6mph over 5,704 miles, I hope you'll do better. Mine bought with 6,044 miles was 20.4 mph
Thanks Ralph - I skimmed over Z_201_ . They have confirmed in writing they can place it under Porsche warranty (obviously as they are selling it), but the 111 has not been completed yet.

It would seem that the engine speed must be a red flag. Will see how it goes with them.

I do wonder how many OPC manual GT cars have squeaky clean PIWIS reports though.

whj

143 posts

176 months

Thursday 25th March
quotequote all
OP, I bought a 991.2 GT3 just before Christmas and it also had 4 ignitions (after 125 hours) in rev range 3. I bought it from an independent and whilst they assured me it was nothing to be concerned with, I sent the report to my local OPC and asked them if there was anything in the report that would preclude them from giving me a warranty and they said that in isolation the report didn't pose a problem in their view.

So after purchase I phoned to book the car in for the 111 point check and OPC service said, no need and just issued a warranty over the phone without the inspection or associated cost.

Ive done a paltry 700 miles so far, but now the weather has turned it will get regular exercise. Ive also got my first track day in it next month at Anglesey bounce

CloudStuff

Original Poster:

2,717 posts

71 months

Friday 26th March
quotequote all
whj said:
OP, I bought a 991.2 GT3 just before Christmas and it also had 4 ignitions (after 125 hours) in rev range 3. I bought it from an independent and whilst they assured me it was nothing to be concerned with, I sent the report to my local OPC and asked them if there was anything in the report that would preclude them from giving me a warranty and they said that in isolation the report didn't pose a problem in their view.

So after purchase I phoned to book the car in for the 111 point check and OPC service said, no need and just issued a warranty over the phone without the inspection or associated cost.

Ive done a paltry 700 miles so far, but now the weather has turned it will get regular exercise. Ive also got my first track day in it next month at Anglesey bounce
Congratulations on the car whj - I'm with you on the track day want.

Do you recall what the maximum engine speed reached on your report was?

Digga

33,042 posts

250 months

Friday 26th March
quotequote all
O/T I really need that engine number.

Hope purchase works out OP.

gtsralph

1,055 posts

111 months

Friday 26th March
quotequote all
CloudStuff said:
Thanks Ralph - I skimmed over Z_201_ . They have confirmed in writing they can place it under Porsche warranty (obviously as they are selling it), but the 111 has not been completed yet.

It would seem that the engine speed must be a red flag. Will see how it goes with them.

I do wonder how many OPC manual GT cars have squeaky clean PIWIS reports though.
The rev measurement process is not an exact science. It works off a toothed wheel and there are only so many teeth to base a count on. So at 9k revs detecting an extra rev with an algorithm is not that precise.

After the 111 Test they should give you an updated version of the report you posted with a big tick like this:



keepup

92 posts

83 months

Friday 26th March
quotequote all
This was my car, send me a private message if you’d like to discuss

CloudStuff

Original Poster:

2,717 posts

71 months

Friday 26th March
quotequote all
keepup said:
This was my car, send me a private message if you’d like to discuss
Thanks a lot - pm sent.

CloudStuff

Original Poster:

2,717 posts

71 months

Friday 26th March
quotequote all
Just had a chat with the previous owner - it's all good, it checks out 100%.

Gotta love the 911 brother/sister-hood :-)

Thanks for all the responses here.