GT3 prices going up
Discussion
TDT said:
It is very funny that Porsche have built this fantastic ‘reputation’ for reliability/ bombproof-ness.
Where does it come from? Motorsport/endurance racing?
… where they rebuild the whole car after every event or is it from the internet myth that 80% of Porsche ever built are still in operating order today.
Marketing is very powerful.
They are generally , I’ve had 16 or so and the only engine issue I ever had was on a 996 turbo , albeit it was one motherfucjing serious issue .Where does it come from? Motorsport/endurance racing?
… where they rebuild the whole car after every event or is it from the internet myth that 80% of Porsche ever built are still in operating order today.
Marketing is very powerful.
They’re a hard sell, regardless of engine derivative. It’s a 12 year old car with an unknown fix beyond 15 years (I think it is). £75k in today’s market is a lot of money to beg/steal/borrow for most. 718 GT4 or this. Excluding the engine the GT4 will give you 80% of the experience with none of the worry.
That’s my view anyway. Others may think differently.
That’s my view anyway. Others may think differently.
That there aren't many people telling us how much their cars have cost them is re-assuring (... but maybe it's not when Porsche are still repairing some / many of them under warranty ?)
What the market requires is a Hartech style solution ... if the cost was a potential £15k what would that do to the secondhand value of these cars ?
The Mezgers were never entirely without issue, but the world had Carrera Cup, Supercup, GT races every weekend on every continent, for nearly 20 odd years, where engineers were tearing down and re-building the old 993/996/997 crankcases. There was a wealth of knowledge and also faith that built up.
Unfortunately, the early engines in the 991.1 GT cars never had the benefit of that.
Unfortunately, the early engines in the 991.1 GT cars never had the benefit of that.
glassesdirect said:
You only have to look at what the market prices of 997.1's have done, and remember this is an issue where there are several respected indys rebuilding them for <£15K.
With the 991.1 GT3, a combination of lack of certainty about the possible repair options and the much higher cost of repairs (maybe £30-£50K) are surely going to hit values hard.
And someone buying a 12 year old car in warranty now is going to be thinking about the difficulty in selling it 3 years later when it is out of warranty so the crunch should come now for 2013 cars?
Add in harder to obtain finance and the option of a less risky Cayman and you have a perfect storm.
Nail. Head. Hit.With the 991.1 GT3, a combination of lack of certainty about the possible repair options and the much higher cost of repairs (maybe £30-£50K) are surely going to hit values hard.
And someone buying a 12 year old car in warranty now is going to be thinking about the difficulty in selling it 3 years later when it is out of warranty so the crunch should come now for 2013 cars?
Add in harder to obtain finance and the option of a less risky Cayman and you have a perfect storm.
I'd love the 991 GT3 - one of Porsche's best looking GT cars in my opinion. The problem is that at coming up 15 years old you don't know how much time these cars have spent on track and with the notorious engine issues which Porsche had to run several iterations of before they got it 'right' it doesn't inspire much confidence that these engines will have future issues or need rebuilds.
£75k is more palatable if you know the 'worst case' scenario on costs. An instructor at PEC told me the engines cost £50k but this was several years ago and not clear if this is parts or including labour.
£75k is more palatable if you know the 'worst case' scenario on costs. An instructor at PEC told me the engines cost £50k but this was several years ago and not clear if this is parts or including labour.
SV_WDC said:
I'd love the 991 GT3 - one of Porsche's best looking GT cars in my opinion. The problem is that at coming up 15 years old you don't know how much time these cars have spent on track and with the notorious engine issues which Porsche had to run several iterations of before they got it 'right' it doesn't inspire much confidence that these engines will have future issues or need rebuilds.
£75k is more palatable if you know the 'worst case' scenario on costs. An instructor at PEC told me the engines cost £50k but this was several years ago and not clear if this is parts or including labour.
I also think it's one of their best looking GT cars.£75k is more palatable if you know the 'worst case' scenario on costs. An instructor at PEC told me the engines cost £50k but this was several years ago and not clear if this is parts or including labour.
200Plus Club said:
SV_WDC said:
I'd love the 991 GT3 - one of Porsche's best looking GT cars in my opinion. The problem is that at coming up 15 years old you don't know how much time these cars have spent on track and with the notorious engine issues which Porsche had to run several iterations of before they got it 'right' it doesn't inspire much confidence that these engines will have future issues or need rebuilds.
£75k is more palatable if you know the 'worst case' scenario on costs. An instructor at PEC told me the engines cost £50k but this was several years ago and not clear if this is parts or including labour.
I also think it's one of their best looking GT cars.£75k is more palatable if you know the 'worst case' scenario on costs. An instructor at PEC told me the engines cost £50k but this was several years ago and not clear if this is parts or including labour.
Had both 991.1 and .2 and I remember parking my .2 next to a .1 at my OPC ( both solid white )
I actually preferred the front end of the .1 which surprised me but, the .2 rear end wins hands down
I would always have to go with the .2 though because of the unfortunate engine issues. My .2 also never skipped a beat, absolute marvel of a engine.
I actually preferred the front end of the .1 which surprised me but, the .2 rear end wins hands down
I would always have to go with the .2 though because of the unfortunate engine issues. My .2 also never skipped a beat, absolute marvel of a engine.
throt said:
Had both 991.1 and .2 and I remember parking my .2 next to a .1 at my OPC ( both solid white )
I actually preferred the front end of the .1 which surprised me but, the .2 rear end wins hands down
I would always have to go with the .2 though because of the unfortunate engine issues. My .2 also never skipped a beat, absolute marvel of a engine.
I actually preferred the front end of the .1 which surprised me but, the .2 rear end wins hands down
I would always have to go with the .2 though because of the unfortunate engine issues. My .2 also never skipped a beat, absolute marvel of a engine.
Totally agree with everything you say including the preference for the 991.1 front end, far nicer looking than the .2
ags11 said:
With the relatively low numbers of the 911.1 compared to the Mezger, I’d imagine it might not be worth the cost of investigating and developing a solution?
At least with a Mezger, you're rebuilding an engine to a tried and tested factory spec or even an equally well tested larger capacity spec.With a 991.1 GT3, any third party engine rebuilder would be tasked with rebuilding it to their own modified/improved spec and will it be commercially feasible to provide say a two year warranty on that? One thing 991.1 GT3 owners are used to ...and that's an engine warranty!
Edited by Andyoz on Thursday 12th December 15:20
Andyoz said:
ags11 said:
With the relatively low numbers of the 911.1 compared to the Mezger, I’d imagine it might not be worth the cost of investigating and developing a solution?
At least with a Mezger, you're rebuilding an engine to a tried and tested factory spec or even an equally well tested larger capacity spec.With a 991.1 GT3, any third party engine rebuilder would be tasked with rebuilding it to their own modified/improved spec and will it be commercially feasible to provide say a two year warranty on that? One thing 991.1 GT3 owners are used to ...and that's an engine warranty!
Essentially the 996 and 997 platform Mezger was just an evolution of the 993 engine. So some bits you can track even further back to those race cars, in terms of reliability and component life. Even if the 991.1 GT engine was great, it would still not have those benefits of scale.
Digga said:
Andyoz said:
ags11 said:
With the relatively low numbers of the 911.1 compared to the Mezger, I’d imagine it might not be worth the cost of investigating and developing a solution?
At least with a Mezger, you're rebuilding an engine to a tried and tested factory spec or even an equally well tested larger capacity spec.With a 991.1 GT3, any third party engine rebuilder would be tasked with rebuilding it to their own modified/improved spec and will it be commercially feasible to provide say a two year warranty on that? One thing 991.1 GT3 owners are used to ...and that's an engine warranty!
Essentially the 996 and 997 platform Mezger was just an evolution of the 993 engine. So some bits you can track even further back to those race cars, in terms of reliability and component life. Even if the 991.1 GT engine was great, it would still not have those benefits of scale.
my 1966 engine makes 117bhp per litre and revs to 8200,shift light at 8,they have not evolved that far,unlike a 1500 hyabusa.Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff